Russia and trump

[b.c.]

The reason WHY the GOP won't support election security measures:

Florida Gov. DeSantis confirms Russia hacked into two counties' voter databases in 2016
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/20...ked-into-two-counties-voter-databases-in-2016
Florida governor Ron DeSantis says two counties in the state were hacked in 2016 - CNNPolitics

 

[Drifterwood]

All ministers from Austria's far right party resign

This is how the alt right behave in Europe.

It was a sting, but clearly a completely credible scenario to Austria's right wing nationalists who are currently in a coalition government.

Putin's Russia attracts the nationalist right wing. It just does. Mr. Trump, the U.K. Brexit party etc etc.

 

[tripod]

All ministers from Austria's far right party resign

Putin's Russia attracts the nationalist right wing. It just does. Mr. Trump, the U.K. Brexit party etc etc.

Good riddance IMHO.

But to drag the Russian government and even Putin into this seems like a bit of a stretch to say the least.

It was an unnamed oligarch who sought to personally enrich themselves via acquiring lucrative government contracts for their bribery.

Not a scenario involving the Russian government. Putin does not have "control" over Russian oligarchs... any more than Theresa May has control over British oligarchs. In fact... in the US, it is precisely the oligarchs who have TOTAL control over our government.

US controls Russia through Yeltsin = oligarchs control Russia (and subsequently amass GREAT wealth stealing the "people's" infrastructure right from under their noses)

Putin controlling Russia = oligarchs are more kept in check

ANY Russian oligarch who does NOT live in Russia (many live in YOUR fucking country) is an oligarch who does not want to be subjected to the rule of Russian law and is in political OPPOSITION to Putin... aligning themselves WITH the British oligarchs.

Plus... the supposed "Russian oligarch" who was being represented by his "niece" is an only child and has no niece... which throws this whole thing into a murky area where this might have been a sting operation that might have not been backed by any oligarch but merely had the "appearance" of representing an oligarch.

Forbes Russia ranks Makarov, the former head of Russian gas company Itera, as the country’s 48th-richest billionaire with a net worth of $2.1 billion which ranks him slightly above US athlete Michael Jordan in his personal wealth.

There isn't even ONE Russian in the top 20 of Forbes richest people... most of the world's wealth is in the US
1). One Chinese man
2). One Spaniard man
3). One French woman & one French man
4). One Mexican man

The other 15 of the world's wealthiest individuals are all American... the vast amount of wealth in the world resides in the West. Russia doesn't have shit... Russia's wealth was stolen by the oligarchs who made their wealth through scamming the Russian people with a system of "credits" in exchange for obtaining the military and mostly energy assets that used to be collectively owned by the people. Those credits would be found to be worthless and the Russian people were left penniless and stripped of their natural resources.

Putin has been throwing some of those oligarchs in jail for their crimes. I have NEVER seen an American president throw ONE oligarch in jail for their crimes. At least Putin is strong enough to stand up to the crooks that destroyed his country... the same cannot be said for the British government and the US government.

 

[keenobserver]

American presidents do not have, nor should they have the right to "throw people in jail." That is something dictators do in countries that do not have enforceable constitutions. It is widely understood in all but one place that Russian oligarchs exist and serve at the pleasure of Mr. Putin. When the oppose HIM they die, disappear of rot in prison stripped of the franchise he granted them and much of their riches. Putin is not standing up against crooks, he is standing on human rights and keeping hid crooks towing the line - his line. Prime Minister May, does not, nor will any PM have the power Putin has.

 

[b.c.]

A report that aired on NBC Nightly News yesterday:

New evidence suggests Russia tried to sow unrest in the U.S. beyond the 2020 election

"Documents seen exclusively by NBC News show that Russian operatives pitched a plot to manipulate African Americans, saying President Trump’s election created an opportunity by “deepening conflicts in American society,” as recently as last year."

 

[keenobserver]

A report that aired on NBC Nightly News yesterday:

New evidence suggests Russia tried to sow unrest in the U.S. beyond the 2020 election

"Documents seen exclusively by NBC News show that Russian operatives pitched a plot to manipulate African Americans, saying President Trump’s election created an opportunity by “deepening conflicts in American society,” as recently as last year."

Hard to imagine some people do not accept this.

 

[tripod]

Hard to imagine some people do not accept this.

"NBC cannot independently verify the documents."

NBC has no idea if the documents are verifiable... to accept NBC's word even though they themselves have no certainty to the accuracy of the information found in it's "exclusive report" is foolish at best.

Loose evidence that doesn't amount to much if it's not verified... and it currently is not.

Russian "combat & sabotage" training camps in Africa for disaffected African American dissidents? Does this at all seem realistic to you?

The documents aren't verified... the article is useless without verification of the "exclusive" documents.

It's actually extremely HARD to imagine intelligent and logical people would buy this load of horseshit.

 

[tripod]

American presidents do not have, nor should they have the right to "throw people in jail." That is something dictators do in countries that do not have enforceable constitutions.

In Russia's case... those oligarchs raped the country and destroyed the commonwealth enriching themselves during the years when they were run by an American puppet.

Many of those oligarchs flagrantly broke laws and fled the country... many of them live in the UK. A few decided that they would continue to break laws and felt brazen enough to stay in Russia... those oligarchs were met with criminal charges due to the laws that they broke.

In the US we have numerous billionaires and millionaires that flout US laws, especially tax law and are NEVER prosecuted for their crimes.

You as usual, misinterpret my post and run with numerous strawmen... are they deliberate or do you just not understand simple English... assuming it's your native language and all.

It is widely understood in all but one place that Russian oligarchs exist and serve at the pleasure of Mr. Putin.

Widely understood? You mean widely programmed.

You don't know anything about Russia or Putin, and you don't WANT to know. Your misunderstanding of an entire country and it's leader allows you reinforce your personal hatred for Russia. Your misunderstanding also allows you to not have the context with which to properly perceive any information that comes into your cognitive space pertaining to Russia or it's leader.

Oligarchs do not serve at the pleasure of Putin... oligarchs don't serve anyone. They are fabulously wealthy men who amassed all of their wealth via the incompetence of the U.S. puppet Yeltsin... it's not a "job", role or appointment.

No oligarch in the world serves anyone but themselves and their commitment to gain more and more wealth. Your understanding is shockingly wrong and completely ridiculous.

 

[Industrialsize]

In Russia's case... those oligarchs raped the country and destroyed the commonwealth enriching themselves during the years when they were run by an American puppet.

Many of those oligarchs flagrantly broke laws and fled the country... many of them live in the UK. A few decided that they would continue to break laws and felt brazen enough to stay in Russia... those oligarchs were met with criminal charges due to the laws that they broke.

In the US we have numerous billionaires and millionaires that flout US laws, especially tax law and are NEVER prosecuted for their crimes.

You as usual, misinterpret my post and run with numerous strawmen... are they deliberate or do you just not understand simple English... assuming it's your native language and all.



Widely understood? You mean widely programmed.

You don't know anything about Russia or Putin, and you don't WANT to know. Your misunderstanding of an entire country and it's leader allows you reinforce your personal hatred for Russia. Your misunderstanding also allows you to not have the context with which to properly perceive any information that comes into your cognitive space pertaining to Russia or it's leader.

Oligarchs do not serve at the pleasure of Putin... oligarchs don't serve anyone. They are fabulously wealthy men who amassed all of their wealth via the incompetence of the U.S. puppet Yeltsin... it's not a "job", role or appointment.

No oligarch in the world serves anyone but themselves and their commitment to gain more and more wealth. Your understanding is shockingly wrong and completely ridiculous.

Sometimes you seem shockingly naive. Russia is a hostile foreign adversary and Putin is a murderous thug.

 

[tripod]

Sometimes you seem shockingly naive.

The individual who knows absolutely nothing about Putin and Russia and believes that the for-profit corporate media tells him the truth, is actually the naive one. Anyone who thinks that CNN,ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC the Daily Kos, WaPo and the NYT haven't had a horrible track record of lying to their viewers is INCREDIBLY naive.

I've done my own independent research and YOU HAVE NOT. All you've done is gobble up any piece of propaganda that is served to you... I actually THINK with my own brain, not just sit there and allow corporations to fill me head with bullshit like you do.

 

[Industrialsize]

I've done my own independent research and YOU HAVE NOT. All you've done is gobble up any piece of propaganda that is served to you... I actually THINK with my own brain, not just sit there and allow corporations to fill me head with bullshit like you do.

Please tell us all about your independent research. As thy say in Math Class, "show us your work."

 

[tripod]

Please tell us all about your independent research. As thy say in Math Class, "show us your work."

Oh okay, the lazy guy who sits there and gets his propaganda fed to him is incredulous as to another man's actual journey of enlightenment... and asks him to show his work like a 7th grade math teacher.

But the problem is that you are not a 7th grade math teacher and I'm not your fucking student.

The problem with you, is that you wouldn't believe any of it because your preciously constructed narrative would suffer if you gave an inch to logic and common sense.

Also of note is the reality that the incessant stream of negative articles about Russia/Putin over the last few years and the reams of articles about Russiagate have pushed down any ACTUAL information about Russia in Google's search results... down to the point where they will never be found again.

If you could possible display any ability to use common sense and rational thinking WITHOUT using your corporate-manufactured hatred... I might be interested in sharing information with you. But have you shown ANY sort of unbiased and measured take on anything pertaining to Russia/Putin? Absolutely not... you consistently use the language of a Russophobe and display what appears to be a programmed bias that prevents you from thinking straight and using logic without emotion.

...and it's not like I have a big folder labeled "Russia=Good" where I keep a repository of everything I have ever learned about Russia... but I am willing to share some information if you're willing to view or listen without bias.

The ball is in your court to prove to me that you would be willing to view information about Russia/Putin without bias.

THEN

we can have a logical and adult conversation.

How about you start with saying something legitimately nice about Russia to prove that you don't view the country in a childish & cartoonish manner?

 

[Industrialsize]

Oh okay, the lazy guy who sits there and gets his propaganda fed to him is incredulous as to another man's actual journey of enlightenment... and asks him to show his work like a 7th grade math teacher.

But the problem is that you are not a 7th grade math teacher and I'm not your fucking student.

The problem with you, is that you wouldn't believe any of it because your preciously constructed narrative would suffer if you gave an inch to logic and common sense.

Also of note is the reality that the incessant stream of negative articles about Russia/Putin over the last few years and the reams of articles about Russiagate have pushed down any ACTUAL information about Russia in Google's search results... down to the point where they will never be found again.

If you could possible display any ability to use common sense and rational thinking WITHOUT using your corporate-manufactured hatred... I might be interested in sharing information with you. But have you shown ANY sort of unbiased and measured take on anything pertaining to Russia/Putin? Absolutely not... you consistently use the language of a Russophobe and display what appears to be a programmed bias that prevents you from thinking straight and using logic without emotion.

...and it's not like I have a big folder labeled "Russia=Good" where I keep a repository of everything I have ever learned about Russia... but I am willing to share some information if you're willing to view or listen without bias.

The ball is in your court to prove to me that you would be willing to view information about Russia/Putin without bias.

THEN

we can have a logical and adult conversation.

How about you start with saying something legitimately nice about Russia to prove that you don't view the country in a childish & cartoonish manner?

As I suspected, your independent research is non-existent.

 

[tripod]

As I suspected, your independent research is non-existent.

So you feel that you can ask me to display everything I've ever learned about Russia...

yet when I ask you to first at least say ONE positive thing about Russia, you refuse?

I'm supposed to kiss your ass and respond to your request yet you cannot respond to mine? Even though what I have asked of you is TINY compared to what you've asked of me?

I'm supposed to give you a mile and you can't even give me an inch?

Just who the fuck do you think you are? MY MASTER? I'm your fucking slave and need to say "how high?" when you say jump?

 

[Industrialsize]

So you feel that you can ask me to display everything I've ever learned about Russia...

yet when I ask you to first at least say ONE positive thing about Russia, you refuse?

I'm supposed to kiss your ass and respond to your request yet you cannot respond to mine? Even though what I have asked of you is TINY compared to what you've asked of me?

I'm supposed to give you a mile and you can't even give me an inch?

Just who the fuck do you think you are? MY MASTER? I'm your fucking slave and need to say "how high?" when you say jump?

Tchaikovsky was a great composer.

 

[tripod]

Tchaikovsky was a great composer.

I don't think that qualifies... not something positive about a Russian who lived in the 19th century, but something positive about the country or Putin that would be currently relevant.

Tchaikovsky lived most of his life under Alexander II and his son Alexander III... Russia was a vastly different country.

Yeah there are a lot of Russian artists who are universally accepted as grand masters of their craft... Tchaikovsly is definitely one of them. Russian composers are some of the world's most gifted artists... they left behind staggering works of genius and are considered to be the greatest composers who ever lived outside of Mozart, J.S. Bach and Beethoven.

Mussgorsky
Stravinsky
Rimsy-Korsakov
Rachmaninoff
Prokofiev
Shostakovich

Glinka is certainly well respected, but honestly I don't think I have been exposed to any of his compositions.

Okay, I don't think I'll get any more out of you. You threw me a softball and I'll throw you something a little harder but still an easy read.

I think I primarily started off with Stephen Cohen's books, so let's just begin with where I started.

Soviet Fates and Lost Alternatives: From Stalinism to the New Cold War

Written by Stephen Cohen who is Professor Emeritus of Politics at Princeton University and of Russian Studies and history at New York University. Stephen is most famous for being married to The Nation's Katrina Vanden Hueval.

Just for a taste, let's talk about the U.S. puppet Yeltsin years specifically during his last heart attack when he was incapacitated just to give some background and context. This conversation is about what's next after the end of the Yeltsin era.

"Stephen Cohen of Princeton and David Satter of the Jamestown Foundation report on the health of Russian president Boris Yeltsin and the implications for the country."

Yeltsin's Heart Attacks - Charlie Rose

Stephen Cohen is absolutely brilliant and one of the U.S.'s foremost experts on Russia.

 

[keenobserver]

In Russia's case... those oligarchs raped the country and destroyed the commonwealth enriching themselves during the years when they were run by an American puppet.

Many of those oligarchs flagrantly broke laws and fled the country... many of them live in the UK. A few decided that they would continue to break laws and felt brazen enough to stay in Russia... those oligarchs were met with criminal charges due to the laws that they broke.

In the US we have numerous billionaires and millionaires that flout US laws, especially tax law and are NEVER prosecuted for their crimes.

You as usual, misinterpret my post and run with numerous strawmen... are they deliberate or do you just not understand simple English... assuming it's your native language and all.



Widely understood? You mean widely programmed.

You don't know anything about Russia or Putin, and you don't WANT to know. Your misunderstanding of an entire country and it's leader allows you reinforce your personal hatred for Russia. Your misunderstanding also allows you to not have the context with which to properly perceive any information that comes into your cognitive space pertaining to Russia or it's leader.

Oligarchs do not serve at the pleasure of Putin... oligarchs don't serve anyone. They are fabulously wealthy men who amassed all of their wealth via the incompetence of the U.S. puppet Yeltsin... it's not a "job", role or appointment.

No oligarch in the world serves anyone but themselves and their commitment to gain more and more wealth. Your understanding is shockingly wrong and completely ridiculous.

Nothing you have ever said or posted has informed or been reliably accurate in terms of the U.S. and Russia, and its role in the world today. You are free to disagree, but it seems to be a consensus. You are awed by Putin and willfully ignorant of the considerable threat he poses and the evil he engages in. Your right. I would not waste the time to argue the points, it makes more sense to smash my hand with a hammer.

 

[Industrialsize]

I don't think that qualifies... not something positive about a Russian who lived in the 19th century, but something positive about the country or Putin that would be currently relevant.

Tchaikovsky lived most of his life under Alexander II and his son Alexander III... Russia was a vastly different country.

Yeah there are a lot of Russian artists who are universally accepted as grand masters of their craft... Tchaikovsly is definitely one of them. Russian composers are some of the world's most gifted artists... they left behind staggering works of genius and are considered to be the greatest composers who ever lived outside of Mozart, J.S. Bach and Beethoven.

Mussgorsky(sic) Mussorgsky
Stravinsky
Rimsy-Korsakov (sic) Rimsky-Korsakov
Rachmaninoff
Prokofiev
Shostakovich

Simply your opinion. ( Boston University School for the Arts Class of 1979. Degree in classical music with a concentration in vocal performance.)

 

[tripod]

Nothing you have ever said or posted has informed or been reliably accurate in terms of the U.S. and Russia, and its role in the world today.

and how would you know this since you don't know anything about Russia or Putin that wasn't spoon fed to you by corporations?

You haven't lifted a finger to research or learn anything but think you can just lazily consume whatever the corporations feed to you.

It's a fucking joke.

You are awed by Putin and willfully ignorant of the considerable threat he poses and the evil he engages in.

Lolz.

Putin is merely an effective bureaucrat.... there is nothing to be in awe of. Especially since he represents a fairly conservative, backwards and old fashioned-conservative Russian culture which is NOT my cup of tea.

I'm pretty sure if I was a Russian citizen, I wouldn't vote for him and would be more interested and aligned in his opposition. I don't agree with a lot of his party's policies... United Russia has some FUCKING CRAZY politicians in their party... and not a good crazy but a BAD crazy.

United Russia are right wing loons. Obviously Putin is a centrist in that party so he doesn't share some of the whacked out theories and ideas that many of the members of United Russia do... he's more palatable but still not the sort of politician I would gravitate towards ideologically.

I just think he's an effective bureaucrat who is unfairly maligned by the press and that's as far as it goes.

I am 100% absolutely not in awe of anything he has ever done. I praise him where he has been an effective bureaucrat but that's the extent of so-called "fascination" with Putin.

Your right. I would not waste the time to argue the points, it makes more sense to smash my hand with a hammer.

Sheer hyperbolic nonsense... don't fucking hit yourself with a hammer for any goddamn reason. If you don't have the energy or the desire, that's fine... you don't have to argue with me... I certainly don't want to argue with the likes of you. I neither have the desire nor the energy... you are a complete and utter waste of my time.

 

[Industrialsize]

and how would you know this since you don't know anything about Russia or Putin that wasn't spoon fed to you by corporations?

You haven't lifted a finger to research or learn anything but think you can just lazily consume whatever the corporations feed to you.

It's a fucking joke.



Lolz.

Putin is merely an effective bureaucrat.... there is nothing to be in awe of. Especially since he represents a fairly conservative, backwards and old fashioned-conservative Russian culture which is NOT my cup of tea.

I'm pretty sure if I was a Russian citizen, I wouldn't vote for him and would be more interested and aligned in his opposition. I don't agree with a lot of his party's policies... United Russia has some FUCKING CRAZY politicians in their party... and not a good crazy but a BAD crazy.

United Russia are right wing loons. Obviously Putin is a centrist in that party so he doesn't share some of the whacked out theories and ideas that many of the members of United Russia do... he's more palatable but still not the sort of politician I would gravitate towards ideologically.

I just think he's an effective bureaucrat who is unfairly maligned by the press and that's as far as it goes.

I am 100% absolutely not in awe of anything he has ever done. I praise him where he has been an effective bureaucrat but that's the extent of so-called "fascination" with Putin.



Sheer hyperbolic nonsense... don't fucking hit yourself with a hammer for any goddamn reason. If you don't have the energy or the desire, that's fine... you don't have to argue with me... I certainly don't want to argue with the likes of you. I neither have the desire nor the energy... you are a complete and utter waste of my time.

Read Volume 1 of the Mueller Report: Redacted Mueller Report