Russia and trump

Bigbailey12

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That fact that the previous administration was Following Trump for over a year is some scary stuff... Loosen the inter agency regulations then unmask the names of the Trump administration to make sure those names get leaked is some good stuff
 

LittleBuzzSaw

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Given Trump's poll numbers, I'd say the "elitist" bar is set pretty low right now.



One side's hatred of Obama was also pretty unprecedented.
I can't disagree. But while you quote "one side's hatred of Obama", you also neglect to mention that that side never rioted in the streets; and that "one sided 'hatred'", is well documented in presidential history, most evidently in the Lincoln v. Douglas debates in 1858 (that actually came to blows on the campaign trail), and Andrew Jackson v. John Quincy Adams, which was one of (if not the) most ugly and personally smearing presidential campaign in history.
 

Redwyvre

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I can't disagree. But while you quote "one side's hatred of Obama", you also neglect to mention that that side never rioted in the streets; and that "one sided 'hatred'", is well documented in presidential history, most evidently in the Lincoln v. Douglas debates in 1858 (that actually came to blows on the campaign trail), and Andrew Jackson v. John Quincy Adams, which was one of (if not the) most ugly and personally smearing presidential campaign in history.

This post makes me chuckle. It's difficult to have a 'street riot' in a rural area.
 

Klingsor

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I can't disagree. But while you quote "one side's hatred of Obama", you also neglect to mention that that side never rioted in the streets; and that "one sided 'hatred'", is well documented in presidential history, most evidently in the Lincoln v. Douglas debates in 1858 (that actually came to blows on the campaign trail), and Andrew Jackson v. John Quincy Adams, which was one of (if not the) most ugly and personally smearing presidential campaign in history.

No doubt. But there was a particular *kind* of hatred Obama faced that was never directed at any of his predecessors.
 
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tripod

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1). Al Nusra has chemical weapons factories and has been churning out chemical weapons for use in Syria for years

2). Al Nusra is a terrorist organization and has no respect for the sanctity of human life. They kill innocent civilians without discrimination and civilian casualties are ALWAYS good because the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights will assign those deaths to the Syrian regime 100% of the time. They get to terrorize the citizens and then that terror gets blamed on their enemy... A PARADISE FOR TERRORISTS.

3). The Syrian Defense Forces are in a COMFORTABLE position... with NO need to use ridiculously counter-productive chemical weapons.

Who benefits from killing civilians in Syria via a chemical attack?

It's certainly not the Syrian Government.

THE FREE SYRIAN ARMY AND THE TERRORISTS BENEFIT FROM A CHEMICAL ATTACK ON INNOCENTS

It's a GREAT way to justify an American invasion by immediately placing blame on the Syrian Government despite there being little to no evidence to support this assertion.

... and a GREAT way to undermine the US's new policy on not pursuing regime change.

A). Why would Assad want to undermine the US's new policy on regime change? HE DOESN'T

B). Would the opposition forces stand to gain newfound support from this chemical attack? YES

therefore - The Syrian Regime LOSES whenever there is a chemical attack and the opposition WINS whenever there is a chemical attack... the opposition stands to benefit from chemical attacks and Assad's worst nightmare are chemical attacks.

Use your fucking heads and stop believing the lies designed to get you to support terrorism
 
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Industrialsize

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1). Al Nusra has chemical weapons factories and has been churning out chemical weapons for use in Syria for years

2). Al Nusra is a terrorist organization and has no respect for the sanctity of human life. They kill innocent civilians without discrimination and civilian casualties are ALWAYS good because the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights will assign those deaths to the Syrian regime 100% of the time. They get to terrorize the citizens and then that terror gets blamed on their enemy... A PARADISE FOR TERRORISTS.

3). The Syrian Defense Forces are in a COMFORTABLE position... with NO need to use ridiculously counter-productive chemical weapons.

Who benefits from killing civilians in Syria via a chemical attack?

It's certainly not the Syrian Government.

THE FREE SYRIAN ARMY AND THE TERRORISTS BENEFIT FROM A CHEMICAL ATTACK ON INNOCENTS

It's a GREAT way to justify an American invasion by immediately placing blame on the Syrian Government despite there being little to no evidence to support this assertion.

... and a GREAT way to undermine the US's new policy on not pursuing regime change.

A). Why would Assad want to undermine the US's new policy on regime change? HE DOESN'T

B). Would the opposition forces stand to gain newfound support from this chemical attack? YES

therefore - The Syrian Regime LOSES whenever there is a chemical attack and the opposition WINS whenever there is a chemical attack... the opposition stands to benefit from chemical attacks and Assad's worst nightmare are chemical attacks.

Use your fucking heads and stop believing the lies designed to get you to support terrorism
So you've fallen hook, line and sinker for the Russian story was that it was Syrian Rebels killing Syrians. You are naive. It was Assad.
 
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Bigbailey12

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So you've fallen hook, line and sinker for the Russian story was that it was Syrian Rebels killing Syrians. You are naive. It was Assad.
Obamas foreign policy was such a debacle... Do nothing in Syria while Assad does what he wants with Russia's support
 

Klingsor

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Obamas foreign policy was such a debacle... Do nothing in Syria while Assad does what he wants with Russia's support

Obama wanted to take military action, but couldn't get Congressional support.

Also, it's hypocritical when Trump makes the same complaint you do--since back then he repeatedly Tweeted we should "Stay out of Syria."
 
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marinera

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Global Security Working Group

Possible Implications of Faulty US Technical Intelligence in the Damascus Nerve Agent Attack of August 21, 2013



Richard Lloyd
Former UN Weapons Inspector
Tesla Laboratories Inc.|Arlington, VA
Voice: 509-979-3995; e-mail: rlloyd@tesla.net
Theodore A. Postol
Professor of Science, Technology, and National Security Policy
Massachusetts Institute of Technology


x The Syrian Improvised Chemical Munitions that Were Used in the August 21, Nerve Agent Attack in Damascus Have a Range of About 2 Kilometers

x The UN Independent Assessment of the Range of the Chemical Munition Is in Exact Agreement with Our Findings
x This Indicates That These Munitions Could Not Possibly Have Been Fired at East Ghouta from the “Heart”, or from the Eastern Edge, of the Syrian Government Controlled Area Shown in the Intelligence Map Published by the White House on August 30, 2013.

x This mistaken Intelligence Could Have Led to an Unjustified US Military Action Based on False Intelligence.

x A Proper Vetting of the Fact That the Munition Was of Such Short Range Would Have Led to a Completely Different Assessment of the Situation from the Gathered Data

x Whatever the Reasons for the Egregious Errors in the Intelligence, the Source of These Errors Needs to Be Explained.

x If the Source of These Errors Is Not Identified, the Procedures that Led to this Intelligence Failure Will Go Uncorrected, and the Chances of a Future Policy Disaster Will Grow With Certainty.
...........


https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/1006045/possible-implications-of-bad-intelligence.pdf

 
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tripod

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So you've fallen hook, line and sinker for the Russian story was that it was Syrian Rebels killing Syrians. You are naive. It was Assad.

1). That isn't a "Russian story" it's a statement put out by the Russian defense spokesperson. The Russian Defense Ministry says a rebel-held town in northern Syria has been exposed to toxic agents from a rebel arsenal hit by a Syrian air strike. The ministry spokesman, Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov, said in a statement that the Russian military assets registered a Syrian air strike Tuesday on weapons depots and an ammunition factory on the eastern outskirts of the town of Khan Sheikhoun.

Seems pretty matter of fact...

... but that's not how I came about my conclusion.

The question "Cui bono" is where I began. Cui Bono is still the MOST IMPORTANT forensic question to ascertain which party has a motive for the crime. The crime was a "chemical attack". Cui Bono, Qui Prodest or follow the money... whatever phrase you prefer.

I already outlined the thought process behind how I came about culpability but I'll repeat it.

1). Al Nusra has chemical weapons factories and has been churning out chemical weapons for use in Syria for years

U.S. plans for possibility that Assad could lose control of chemical arms cache

"A former Syrian general who once led the army’s chemical weapons training program said that the main storage sites for mustard gas and nerve agents are supposed to be guarded by thousands of Syrian troops but that they would be easily overrun.

The sites are not secure, retired Maj. Gen. Adnan Silou, who defected to the opposition in June, said in an interview near Turkey’s border with Syria. “Probably anyone from the Free Syrian Army or any Islamic extremist group could take them over,” he said.

Most of the chemical munitions are stored at two sites: a warehouse complex in Furqlus, outside the battle-stricken central city of Homs at the western edge of the Syrian desert, and an installation known as Khan Abu Shamat, about 50 miles east of Damascus, the capital. A third site is near Masyaf, west of Homs. Smaller stockpiles are thought to be scattered among dozens of other military installations nationwide.

The arsenal is so vast that it could take 1,000 outside inspectors and specialists just to monitor the condition of each site and take an inventory, said Leonard Spector, deputy director of the James Martin Center for Nonproliferation Studies at the Monterey Institute of International Studies."

Syria: Rebels may resort to using chemical weapons

"Terrorist groups may resort to using chemical weapons against the Syrian people... after having gained control of a toxic chlorine factory" east of Aleppo ... The ministry was believed to be referring to the Syrian-Saudi Chemicals Company (SYSACCO) factory near Safira, which was taken over earlier this week by militants from the jihadist Al-Nusra Front."

Syria’s Civil War: The Mystery Behind a Deadly Chemical Attack

...when Mohammad Sabbagh, an industrialist from Aleppo, heard about the attack near his hometown on March 19, the details stopped him cold. Survivors and witnesses of what was being described by the government news agency as a chemical attack said they smelled something like chlorine. And as the owner of Syria’s only chlorine-gas manufacturing plant, Sabbagh knew that if chlorine was involved, it most likely came from his factory.
In August rebel forces took Sabbagh’s factory by force, as part of a sweep that also netted them an electricity station and a military airport about 30 km from Aleppo. Sabbagh, who has since fled Aleppo for Beirut, says his factory is now occupied by Jabhat al-Nusra...
... he has no idea what has happened, if anything, to the 400 or so steel barrels of chlorine gas he had stored in the compound. The yellow tanks, which hold one ton of gas each, are used for purifying municipal water supplies. “No one can know for certain, but if it turns out chlorine gas was used in the attack, then the first possibility is that it was mine. There is no other factory in Syria that can make this gas, and now it is under opposition control,” he says.



2). Al Nusra is a terrorist organization and has no respect for the sanctity of human life. They kill innocent civilians without discrimination and civilian casualties are ALWAYS good because the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights will assign those deaths to the Syrian regime 100% of the time. They get to terrorize the citizens and then that terror gets blamed on their enemy... A PARADISE FOR TERRORISTS.

The "Free Syrian Army" is nothing more than Al Nusra, Al Qaeda and ISIS fighters fighting with snazzy new matching uniforms.

A declassified U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency document from August 12, 2012 details the rise of ISIS in Syria BEFORE it ever happened.

2q0t0me.jpg



A). THE SALAFIST, MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD AND AL QAEDA IN IRAQ ARE THE MAJOR FORCES DRIVING THE INSURGENCY IN SYRIA. Hmmm... no mention of any Free Syrian Army which had been "fighting" against the Assad regime for 13 months prior to this intelligence assessment...

NO MENTION OF THE FREE SYRIAN ARMY, ONLY SALAFIST (WAHHABI), MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD AND AL QAEDA IN IRAQ FIGHTERS.

B). THE WEST GULF COUNTRIES AND TURKEY SUPPORT THE OPPOSITION (SALAFIST, MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD AND AL QAEDA IN IRAQ)...

... AND AL QAEDA IN IRAQ SUPPORTED THE SYRIAN OPPOSITION FROM THE BEGINNING BOTH IDEOLOGICALLY AND THROUGH THE MEDIA.


3). The Syrian Defense Forces are in a COMFORTABLE position... with NO need to use ridiculously counter-productive chemical weapons.

IN CONCLUSION - The only people in Syria that benefit from the use of chemical weapons are the opposition to the Assad regime.

The use of chemical weapons is a nightmare for the Assad regime... every use of chemical weapons is blamed on his defense forces and each use of chemical weapons emboldens the terrorists by allowing them to get more funding and more weapons.

Chemical Weapons use = BAD for Assad.

Chemical Weapons use = GOOD for the opposition to Assad.

Chemical Weapons use = Pretext for the United States to launch a full scale invasion which is BAD for Assad and GOOD for the opposition.

Assad LOSES BIG TIME whenever there is a chemical attack and the Syrian opposition WINS BIG TIME.

The Syrian opposition is clearly the party that profits or benefits.

So no, I didn't need a statement from the Russian defense Spokeperson to come about this conclusion... this isn't a "story" but a series of stories and information that provides only ONE logical conclusion. The conclusion is that the Syrian opposition stands to gain a HELL OF A LOT every time there is a chemical attack... which is paired with the knowledge that the opposition has captured large stockpiles of Assad's chemical weapons program if not most of it Syria's chemical stockpiles. Not only that, but there is serious evidence that the Syrian Opposition has developed their own chemical weapons factories.

Those chemical weapons are NOT to be used on Assad's government troops or his government controlled areas of the country. Why not? BECAUSE THEN THE GOVERNMENT WOULD HAVE FORENSIC PROOF OF THE EXISTENCE OF THE OPPOSITION'S CHEMICAL WEAPONS PROGRAMS BUT ALSO THE FORENSIC EVIDENCE THAT THEY WERE USED IN AN ACT OF WAR.

Nooooooo... those chemical weapons are to be used on OPPOSITION CONTROLLED AREAS AS FALSE FLAG ATTACKS TO GARNER SYMPATHY FOR THE OPPOSITION AND TO PORTRAY THE REGIME AS RUTHLESS COLD BLOODED MURDERERS. ENOUGH CHEMICAL ATTACKS, AND AN INVASION BY BIG DADDY USA WOULD BE INEVITABLE.

The chemicals were ALWAYS designed for civilians in Opposition controlled areas... it was the opposition's "ace-up-their-sleeve" to ensure an invasion by the US.
 

Mercurygirl

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1). Al Nusra has chemical weapons factories and has been churning out chemical weapons for use in Syria for years

2). Al Nusra is a terrorist organization and has no respect for the sanctity of human life. They kill innocent civilians without discrimination and civilian casualties are ALWAYS good because the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights will assign those deaths to the Syrian regime 100% of the time. They get to terrorize the citizens and then that terror gets blamed on their enemy... A PARADISE FOR TERRORISTS.

3). The Syrian Defense Forces are in a COMFORTABLE position... with NO need to use ridiculously counter-productive chemical weapons.

Who benefits from killing civilians in Syria via a chemical attack?

It's certainly not the Syrian Government.

THE FREE SYRIAN ARMY AND THE TERRORISTS BENEFIT FROM A CHEMICAL ATTACK ON INNOCENTS

It's a GREAT way to justify an American invasion by immediately placing blame on the Syrian Government despite there being little to no evidence to support this assertion.

... and a GREAT way to undermine the US's new policy on not pursuing regime change.

A). Why would Assad want to undermine the US's new policy on regime change? HE DOESN'T

B). Would the opposition forces stand to gain newfound support from this chemical attack? YES

therefore - The Syrian Regime LOSES whenever there is a chemical attack and the opposition WINS whenever there is a chemical attack... the opposition stands to benefit from chemical attacks and Assad's worst nightmare are chemical attacks.

Use your fucking heads and stop believing the lies designed to get you to support terrorism

Thought the same thing. Why the fuck would Russia or Assad think it be a good idea to use chemical weapons at this stage? There's just no way the Russians would back such a asinine and detrimental act. They're not that stupid.

No, these are the actions of a desperate army who would gain something, or as the Russians are saying, a air strike on a rebel's chemical weapons arsenal. Your post makes perfect sense. Always look to who benefits most. Or in this instance, who gains at all. Certainly not the Russians or Assad. Such an insane move gives them absolutely nothing.
 
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b.c.

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Obama wanted to take military action, but couldn't get Congressional support.

Also, it's hypocritical when Trump makes the same complaint you do--since back then he repeatedly Tweeted we should "Stay out of Syria."

All too typical of these hypocritical fks. I referenced this very same thing, in this thread, three days before Assad's latest heinous act. Republicans in Congress could've supported Obama back then. But NO, they were too busy conspiring to undermine the black president at every turn.

Which explains why Trump, ever the master of bullshit subterfuge, quickly sought to invoke Obama and point the finger at him, never mind that Trump himself has flip flopped on Syria and Assad on several occasions:

Nightly News: Trump: "An Attack on Humanity" - NBC News

Because by invoking Obama someone MIGHT not get around to figuring that MAYBE it's Trump's fault, and that MAYBE Assad figured that Trump's head was so far up Putin's ASS, that he could get away with using chemical weapons without a lot of blowback... from Trump at least.

Although, as indicated in the above link, Trump has since backed off the criticism of his predecessor... just a LITTLE.

And THAT'S probably because he's come to the realization, overnight no doubt, that having shot off his big fat MOUTH (once again) about what Obama "should've done," he HIMSELF will now have to either put up or STFU.
 

Bigbailey12

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Obama wanted to take military action, but couldn't get Congressional support.

Also, it's hypocritical when Trump makes the same complaint you do--since back then he repeatedly Tweeted we should "Stay out of Syria."
. It's was the same thing in Iraq as he watched Isis grow from a fledging group into a major threat. Saying Iraqi government wouldn't allow The Us troops to stay as if it was Bushes fault as if the US government had no influence.. OBama came wantining The US out of Iraq and that's what he did despite opposition from every military advisor... Funny he had to add troops towards the end..Didn't seem to have any trouble adding troops on the ground .. Did you watch Biden on. CNN saying Iraq will be one of greatest success stories
 
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The briefings indicate that intelligence officials had evidence of Russia’s intentions to help Mr. Trump much earlier in the presidential campaign than previously thought. The briefings also reveal a critical split last summer between the C.I.A. and counterparts at the F.B.I., where a number of senior officials continued to believe through last fall that Russia’s cyberattacks were aimed only at disrupting America’s political system, and not at getting Mr. Trump elected, according to interviews.

C.I.A. Had Evidence of Russian Effort to Help Trump Earlier Than Believed