Russia and trump

tripod

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To summarize your post, Clinton, the Republicans, Bush, the UK and Qatar are all working together in a secret plan to force Donald Trump to overthrow Assad

1). The plan to overthrow Assad isn't a "secret"... it's as plain as day and completely out in the open. It was more of a "secret" during the Clinton and Bush administrations.

Overthrowing Syria has been on the U.S. Neo-Conservative wish list for DECADES.

The Syrian Muslim Brotherhood, a branch of a radical Sunni movement founded in Egypt in 1928, engaged in more than a decade of violent opposition to the regime of Hafez Assad, Bashir’s father. In 1982, the Brotherhood took control of the city of Hama; Assad bombarded the city for a week, killing between six thousand and twenty thousand people. Nevertheless, Walid Jumblatt said, “We told Cheney that the basic link between Iran and Lebanon is Syria—and to weaken Iran you need to open the door to effective Syrian opposition.” - The New Yorker (March 7, 2007)

2). There is a cabal of individuals, nations, organizations & media outlets that are seeking the overthrow of Assad.

In a 1983 CIA report titled "Bringing Real Muscle to Bear Against Syria"

Syria at present has a hammerlock on US interests both in Lebanon and in the Gulf — through closure of Iraq’s pipeline thereby threatening Iraqi internationalization of the [Iran-Iraq] war. The US should consider sharply escalating the pressures against Assad through covertly orchestrating simultaneous military threats against Syria from three border states hostile to Syria: Iraq, Israel and Turkey.

The CIA is talking about Bashar's Dad since this is Nineteen-Eighty-FUCKING-Three.

The actual events took a bit of a turn after the destruction of the Hussein regime... the current plan is GENIUS compared to the crude 1983 plan. Arm terrorists through Saudi Arabia/Qatar... train them in Turkey and use Al Qaeda in Iraq's existing infrastructure to form a mercenary army. Then invent a fake "Free Syrian Army" giving cover to Al Qaeda in Iraq's terror network by labeling them as "militants". No journalists in Syria... only SUNNI EXTREMIST SYMPATHIZERS who falsify the truth and give aid to the terrorists.

The Free Syrian Army is a myth... it's ALWAYS been Al Qaeda in Iraq and the Muslim Brotherhood running the opposition to Assad.

so an oil pipeline can be built from Qatar to the Mediteranean.

That is a "theory" but as previously mentioned, there HAS been a long standing US GOVERNMENT plan to overthrow Syria SINCE 1983!!!!! That plan to overthrow Syria is ALL about two competing pipelines... one that's a Qatar-Turkey and one that is Iraqi-Syria.

There are CIA documents and Department of Defense documents that prove ALL of this. I've linked to them but you use your power of ignorance to deny the truth.

There are so many moving parts in that conspiracy theory.

The line of logic that something cannot be true because conspiracy theories can't have too many moving parts is ridiculous.

A). It IS a conspiracy

B). It DOES have many moving parts
 

LittleBuzzSaw

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I'll offer an investigators point of view.....

Let's, for a moment, assume there is truth to this "Russia/Trump" thing.

Let's assume, for a moment, the reported things are actually happening there and to the extent being reported. Why would Assad use chemical weapons on his own people (civilians/women/children) committing such horrendous acts as to draw the entire civilized world against him? Using chemical weapons is (barring war crimes), What? It's a violation of basic human and civil rights. There is no defense/excuse for their use.

Now, we have the situation in Chechnya...... Let's also, for a moment, assume the reported things are actually happening there, and to the extent being reported. Why would the leader of that country do something to essentially turn the whole civilized world against him? The jailing/execution/torture of gays is what? It's a violation of basic human and civil rights. There is no defense or excuse for this behavior.

Sound familiar?

Both of these places are very strong allies of Russia. There is a very real possibility these situations are connected, or at least the timing of the release of information is. These specific situations do two things: 1) Draw the ire of the international community who would not normally have a bone to pick with either of them (or Russia), and 2) If we (the US) wanted control of something, or an excuse to get involved with something, we would need more countries to publicly support it.

All you have to do is create enough disinformation to piss off enough people to either join you, or look badly on someone they normally wouldn't.

Why in the hell would Russia help someone get elected they knew damn well wouldn't tolerate what their "besties" were doing.

In some of the third world countries I have been in, I have seen first hand how things are reported, and rarely is it accurate, sometimes even flat out made up.

Just ask Hillary about landing under sniper fire.
 
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marinera

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As a side not, a true 'conspiracy theory' is a theory that cannot either be proven or disproven, not any theory that contains a conspiracy. Russia-gate is a conspiracy theory because no matter what is found, it can't be proven neither disproven: let's work a reductio ad absurdum and suppose that tomorrow Trump bombs Russia; those who want to believe the Russia-Gate could (and will do) argue that it is a cover-up which proves that the Russia-gate was true.

Not all explanations which involves a conspiracy are false : (was the Catilina conspiracy false?); on this specific topic, what lobbies and securities agency do for a living is exactly creating conspiracies. This is true foremostly for USA and UK, which creates conspiracies even when there is no need whatsoever; if people doesn't believe theirs conspiracies, they lose power. Just as simple as that.
 

Industrialsize

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I'm sorry. I couldn't find one that was "rolling laughing".

I can't help myself when it is impossible for you to say how Russia got Trump elected. That's laughable.
Impossible in a way that you'll understand.
As a side not, a true 'conspiracy theory' is a theory that cannot either be proven or disproven, not any theory that contains a conspiracy. Russia-gate is a conspiracy theory because no matter what is found, it can't be proven neither disproven: let's work a reductio ad absurdum and suppose that tomorrow Trump bombs Russia; those who want to believe the Russia-Gate could (and will do) argue that it is a cover-up which proves that the Russia-gate was true.

Not all explanations which involves a conspiracy are false : (was the Catilina conspiracy false?); on this specific topic, what lobbies and securities agency do for a living is exactly creating conspiracies. This is true foremostly for USA and UK, which creates conspiracies even when there is no need whatsoever; if people doesn't believe theirs conspiracies, they lose power. Just as simple as that.
Intelligence agencies don't create conspiracies, they gather information.
 
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LittleBuzzSaw

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Impossible in a way that you'll understand.

Intelligence agencies don't create conspiracies, they gather information.


WOW........ you just went full retard.

You obviously have never heard of the CIA, NSA, KGB, or any of the other "intelligence gatherers".

I'm laughing so hard I have tears in my eyes.
 
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Industrialsize

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WOW........ you just went full retard.

You obviously have never heard of the CIA, NSA, KGB, or any of the other "intelligence gatherers".

I'm laughing so hard I have tears in my eyes.
Retard is not a word that is used today in polite company.
 
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Industrialsize

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Ah. But calling names and telling people to "go f*** themselves" is ok?

Got it.
Something I don't do. But regardless, in polite society, cursing is far more acceptable than calling someone a retard as a pejorative.
 

marinera

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Ah. But calling names and telling people to "go f*** themselves" is ok?

Got it.
It looks like guillible people have license to insult around here. Which gives a supplementary reason to me for avoiding personal attacks: a casual observer could think that I am one of those guillible people.
 

Industrialsize

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It looks like guillible people have license to insult around here. Which gives a supplementary reason to me for avoiding personal attacks: a casual observer could think that I am one of those guillible people.
English is not your first language so I wouldn't expect you to understand why the word "retard" has gone out of standard USA English usage. It is a word used to mock people with Down's Syndrome.
 

LittleBuzzSaw

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With all this "Russia bad", "Trump dangerous" gaggle going on, I'm surprised no one is upset about Hillary selling them 20% of our supply of depleted uranium.

Or wondered why the hell they need/want it.

Hmmmm
 

marinera

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Some food for thought:

April 17, 2017
How Trump and Obama are Exactly Alike



Trump won the 2016 nomination and election largely because he was able to pose as a populist and anti-interventionist “America Firster”.


Similarly, Obama won the 2008 election in good part because he promised “hope and change” and because he had given a speech years earlier against the then-impending invasion of Iraq.

Even before he took office, Obama stacked his administration with pro-war people: He incredibly kept Bush’s head of the Pentagon, Robert Gates; nominated Hillary Clinton for Secretary of State, who he beat largely because she voted for giving Bush authorization to invade Iraq. Other prominent Iraq War backers atop the administration included VP Joe Biden, Susan Rice and Richard Holbrooke. Before he was sworn in, Obama backed the 2008 Israeli slaughter of Palestinians in Gaza.
...
Obama intentionally bombed more countries than any other president since World War II: Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Libya, Somalia, Yemen and Pakistan. Obama talked about a nuclear weapons free world, but geared up to spent $1 trillion in upgrading the U.S. nuclear weapons arsenal. At the end of his administration, attempts at the UN to work toward banning nuclear weapons were sabotaged, efforts that the Trump administration continues.
.....

Fundamentally, Obama and Trump ran against the establishment and then helped rebrand it — further entrenching it.

And of course it’s not just foreign policy. Obama brought in pro-Wall Street apparatchiks Tim Geithner and others around Robert Rubin, like Larry Summers. Some were connected to Goldman Sachs, including Rahm Emanuel, Gary Gensler and Elena Kagan and Obama would back the Wall Street bailout.........
..........
http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/04/17/92072/