Same-sex weddings in US Navy

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Cuddler, May 10, 2011.

  1. Cuddler

    Cuddler Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2011
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Canada
    Navy plan to allow same-sex marriage on bases draws opposition - CNN.com

    With the end of DADT in sight, the US navy is making plans to allow same-sex marriages on navy bases where state and local laws allow.
    Those opposed are invoking DoMA, and DoMA still prevents any benefits for same-sex spouses. It will be interesting to see how the house of cards of bigotry will fall, and how many will fight it to the bitter end.
     
  2. houtx48

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2006
    Messages:
    7,095
    Likes Received:
    35
    Gender:
    Male
    Sounds like there are going to be a lot of Marine brides.
     
  3. B_Jingoist

    B_Jingoist New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2009
    Messages:
    359
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA
    Military bases are Federal Property, not sure about all National Guard posts, so state and local laws are not applicable on them, only Federal laws and the Federal government won't touch this.
     
  4. Cuddler

    Cuddler Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2011
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Canada
    Other than DoMA, marriage is a state's issue. They'll allow the ceremonies on bases in states where SSM is recognized.
     
  5. SDSU_Nick

    SDSU_Nick Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2009
    Messages:
    104
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    32
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    ha. interesting.
     
  6. B_Jingoist

    B_Jingoist New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2009
    Messages:
    359
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA
    How can they when state laws don't apply to military bases?
     
  7. Cuddler

    Cuddler Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2011
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Canada
    Where would the couple go to get the marriage license? Since there is no federal institution that does this, they would have to go to a state (or county or city) institution. A license would only be valid in the state in which it was issued, so this is only an issue in states that permit SSM.
     
  8. B_Jingoist

    B_Jingoist New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2009
    Messages:
    359
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA
    So it really has nothing to do with the Navy or military in general.
     
  9. Cuddler

    Cuddler Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2011
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Canada
    How do you get that something happening on a Navy base, by Navy personnel, officiated by Navy chaplains has nothing to do with the Navy or military in general?
     
  10. B_Jingoist

    B_Jingoist New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2009
    Messages:
    359
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA
    Because it makes no sense. A Naval base is Federal ground, a marriage there wouldn't apply to the state. And with that, if married by a Chaplain you still have to apply for a marriage certificate through which ever state you you are being married in. I'm not sure how those laws work, but normally it is the state you are a citizen of.

    I'm pretty sure a Chaplain can still refuse the service. So really all it comes down to is the Navy will allow all groups to use its facilities. There is no policy change there.
     
  11. Cuddler

    Cuddler Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2011
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Canada
    It's your posts that make no sense. Thanks not bothering to read the article in the OP and hijacking a thread.
     
  12. Cuddler

    Cuddler Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2011
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Canada
    It's your posts that make no sense. Thanks not bothering to read the article in the OP.
     
  13. B_Jingoist

    B_Jingoist New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2009
    Messages:
    359
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA
    The article states exactly what I am saying. Being Federal property state laws don't apply there, so until there is a Federal law legalizing same sex marriage a marriage on a military base isn't official. So I'm just interested in how this legally plays out.

    I'm getting a 'gay' brief from my commander this weekend about Army policy towards it, so I'll see what they have to say there.
     
  14. ColoradoGuy

    Verified Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,097
    Albums:
    3
    Likes Received:
    367
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Denver (CO, US)
    Verified:
    Photo
    Guys - isn't the point of the article that the Navy is attempting to make concessions to ensure they are not withholding certain privileges from same-sex military members who wish to be married by a uniformed chaplain?

    That there are complications with DoMA and military bases being federal installations is exactly the point. [That there are a fair amount of Congressmen willing to co-sign the complaint to the Secretary of the Navy is not unexpected, but disappointing all the same.] Socially, the military is saying, we're ready to implement the repeal of DADT and accept gay and lesbian servicemembers and extend the same privileges to them that other servicemembers enjoy. Legally, the military continues, we still have some issues. This is how social change inserts itself into culture and laws.

    Think about this: women got the right to vote in the United States when the 19th Amendment was ratified in 1920... but it took until 1963 for the concept of equal pay to be enshrined in law and it wasn't until 2009 -- nearly 50 years later -- that the right for women to sue over a wage gap was made possible with the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, signed into law by President Obama. This is social change at a glacial pace, but the important thing is that it begins with a first step.
     
  15. Cuddler

    Cuddler Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2011
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Canada
    Exactly. As their about face shows, continuing the bigotry of DoMA requires accepting contradictions. As rights are recognized (e.g., by ending DADT), those contradictions become more evidently absurd.
     
  16. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2007
    Messages:
    10,516
    Likes Received:
    7
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Boston, MA / New York, NY
    Well said. :cool222:
     
  17. Industrialsize

    Staff Member Moderator Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2006
    Messages:
    24,307
    Albums:
    2
    Likes Received:
    2,176
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    United States
    The Navy is walking this one back:
    Navy Same-Sex Unions Decision Reversed Under Pressure From House Lawmakers


    WASHINGTON -- Under pressure from more than five dozen House lawmakers, the Navy late Tuesday abruptly reversed its decision that would have allowed chaplains to perform same-sex unions if the Pentagon decides to recognize openly gay military service later this year.
    In a one-sentence memo obtained by The Associated Press, Rear Adm. Mark Tidd, chief of Navy chaplains, said his earlier decision has been "suspended until further notice pending additional legal and policy review and interdepartmental coordination."


    Navy Same-Sex Unions Decision Reversed Under Pressure From House Lawmakers
     
  18. ColoradoGuy

    Verified Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,097
    Albums:
    3
    Likes Received:
    367
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Denver (CO, US)
    Verified:
    Photo
    I suspect the move may have been a trial balloon. Unfortunate, but not unexpected.
     
  19. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2007
    Messages:
    10,516
    Likes Received:
    7
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Boston, MA / New York, NY
    I sincerely would like to find out who the 63 House members who tried to make this an issue. That way we'll know exactly who to call out for their ignorance.
     
  20. ColoradoGuy

    Verified Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,097
    Albums:
    3
    Likes Received:
    367
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Denver (CO, US)
    Verified:
    Photo
    I would bet the majority of the signatories are Republicans. :rolleyes:

    A copy of the actual letter will likely be produced this week, and the list will be out there.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted