Say bye bye to Merryl Lynch, Lehman Bros, AIG

Discussion in 'Politics' started by B_New End, Sep 15, 2008.

  1. B_New End

    B_New End New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2007
    Messages:
    3,029
    Likes Received:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    WA
    Stocks Set to Plunge amid Wall Street Turmoil

    Bye bye

    Its economic at the moment.... but depending how hard the market nosedives... it'll be political. Maybe this time Charlie Gibson will attribute it to more than just a Hollywood cult movie.

    Yeah... that kooky old Ron Paul.

    Debt as money is genius, the Fed will save us.

    Oh, the execs of these companies walked away with tens of BILLIONS last year. Sure is nice being front of the line at the money presses, isn't it? Have a cannibalistic orgy of speculative trading in the market, take yours, and then walk away as everything collapses. Genius.

    Bloomberg.com: Worldwide

     
  2. sargon20

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    11,369
    Likes Received:
    2,099
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Atlantis
    But don't you know the issue is abortion and how Sarah is a bona-fide 'soccer mom'?
     
  3. Luck E 8

    Luck E 8 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Some of these firms aren't going to be around 3 years from now, that's for sure, especially since the feds aren't going to bail them out, and they shouldn't. Let them fail, and let new firms takeover as frontrunners. Firms that have adapted to 2008, as opposed to still managing like it is the 90's...the market is on edge, but I don't think we'll see a crash anytime soon. On a lighter note though, oil is currently trading at $96 a barrel...this should be a reason to celebrate, funny how no one notices this but me...
     
  4. sargon20

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    11,369
    Likes Received:
    2,099
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Atlantis
    I don't think it's as simple as 'let them fail'. There is tremendous concern once the dominos start falling how and when will they stop. Fed Chairmen Bernanke is supposedly an expert on the Great Depression. He remembers how it started and has been trying for a year now to stay ahead of the dominos. So far he's been barely able to stop the complete collapse.
     
  5. Luck E 8

    Luck E 8 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Ya there could be great repercussions if these firms do fail, I just don't think Bernanke can do much about it at this point. The feds waited entirely too long, and now it's almost too late. I've been hearing a lot of comparisons of now to the great depression, kinda scary...
     
  6. sargon20

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    11,369
    Likes Received:
    2,099
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Atlantis
    'Kinda scary' indeed. And with the debt so high, two wars going on, slowing economy the government looks to be boxed in how much it can do without causing another problem.

    Breaking news...

    A.I.G. Allowed to Borrow Money From Subsidiaries

    Gov. David A. Paterson of New York said on Monday that the state would allow the American International Group, a big insurance company, to lend itself $20 billion to bolster its capital as it faces potentially disastrous credit downgrades.

    Shares in A.I.G. tumbled more than 60 percent on Monday morning as investors grew concerned that the firm lacked capital to withstand cuts to its debt rating. But Mr. Paterson reiterated the state’s support of the firm and declared A.I.G. "financially sound."
     
  7. Phil Ayesho

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2008
    Messages:
    5,581
    Likes Received:
    872
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Diego
    This is what comes of the "INVISIBLE HAND OF THE MARKET".
    ( an invisible hand is what every pickpocket dreams of....)

    So... who wants to lay bets that the "conservatives" who created this debacle will allow the "free market" to determine the fallout?


    What do you want to bet that, now that the Board Execs have bailed out with billions, that the 'conservatives' who championed de-regulation and a free market will be the first in line at the ole Corporate Welfare soup kitchen?

    Here we go... The very ones who are so opposed to "re-distribution of wealth"...
    Of course, what they mean by that is that they are opposed to redistribution of WEALTH... something they have, but that the middle class doesn't actually have...

    They have no problem at all with the re-distribution of poverty.

    We will all be paying for the Republican Graft-a-palooza for decades...


    See how great they are... they LOWERED your taxes.... so you could pay off their enormous debts, with interest, over decades...


    The interesting question is this: How much damage has to be done... how many mistakes of what magnitude, before the republican rank and file realize they are being had.

    Before they wake up to the Racket their own party has become.
    Before we ALL wake up and force term limits on our congressmen and demand that they REGULATE commerce- which is their fucking job.


    A vote for McCain is a vote for more of the same greed and idiocy that got us into this stupid mess.


    Kicking doors down in Falluja and Killing innocent Iraqi's is NOT protecting the USA...

    its bankrupting us.


    Republican votes EQUAL further financial collapse.
     
  8. Elmer Gantry

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Messages:
    1,503
    Albums:
    2
    Likes Received:
    546
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Melbourne (VIC, AU)
    The Lehmann and Bear Stearns employees weren't paid in cash, it was all stock options that would be worthless now. They weren't allowed to cash out of them as a condition of ownership.

    Cynical way to keep the troops happy and shore up your share price by locking up thousands of shares from sale.
     
  9. Elmer Gantry

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Messages:
    1,503
    Albums:
    2
    Likes Received:
    546
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Melbourne (VIC, AU)
    The Republicans, whilst being collusive partners to this, couldn't have stopped it if they tried. A Democrat gov would have screwed it up just as quick. The last US President who started to talk about fixing the root of the problem found himself facing impeachment for canoodling with an intern the next day.

    The disease goes right back to the central bank system whcih divorces ultimate monetary policy from the govt.
     
  10. sargon20

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    11,369
    Likes Received:
    2,099
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Atlantis
    Well one does have to wonder where was the SEC in all of this when these investment banks were loading themselves up with debt and performing their basic underwriting functions with so little regard for the investing public.? We do know that conservative governments like the current one are against most regulations and rely on the 'invisible hand' to steal your money uhhh guide the market. And when you have lax or no regulation this is what happens.
     
  11. Luck E 8

    Luck E 8 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Whatever happend to the Sarbanes-Oxley Act? Wasn't it passed for situations just like this?
     
  12. B_New End

    B_New End New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2007
    Messages:
    3,029
    Likes Received:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    WA
    No.

    :biggrin1:

    Really, these people did nothing illegal, except play fast and loose with other people's money.

    it wasn't illegal, it was just stupid, selfish and arrogant.

    Well.. I mean besides the whole crooked Fed system. But that's not illegal, its just unfair to the working class, and immoral. Its completely legal because they own Washington.
     
  13. D_Davy_Downspout

    D_Davy_Downspout Account Disabled

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2004
    Messages:
    1,144
    Likes Received:
    0
    A lot of this can be contributed to Greenspan(a Reagan appointee) keeping interest rates low and making money so easy to get.

    Or to both parties who passed legislation deregulating the industries.

    But mostly it's greedy people getting caught.




    But it does allow me to laugh at the "free market takes care of everything" libertarians.
     
  14. lucky8

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2006
    Messages:
    3,716
    Likes Received:
    17
    Gender:
    Male
    Is anyone else watching the foreign markets crash right now?
     
  15. SpeedoGuy

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2004
    Messages:
    4,229
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    10
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    I'm sure none of the shareholders or management of these failing investment banks and insurance companies ever voted Republican.

    How do I know that?

    Because they'd be hypocritical as to follow the mantra of hatred of government regulation while still accepting a government financed bailout when times got tough.

    Those rugged individualist, up-by-yer-own-bootstraps hyper capitalists would never stoop to accepting government aid. er, right?
     
  16. B_New End

    B_New End New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2007
    Messages:
    3,029
    Likes Received:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    WA
    Libertarians have been against the Fed for as long as I can remember. The Fed is not free market, it is tax slavery.

    And the Fed has a lot to do with this mess.
     
  17. Freddie53

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2004
    Messages:
    7,285
    Likes Received:
    60
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The South, USA
    WoW! A wonderfully written post that explains the whole fiasco quite well.
     
  18. Phil Ayesho

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2008
    Messages:
    5,581
    Likes Received:
    872
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Diego
    It only wasn't illegal because they were in power and passed laws making their graft legal.

    Its kind of a fine point... what the banks did with subprime mortgages was ILLEGAL when Clinton was in office.

    So, yeah- technically it wasn't against the law- at the time they did it.-
    but then, ethically, that is like saying it would be fine for Congress to pass a rider making murder okay... just so they could kill some folks they didn't like.

    Its the primary flaw with the foxes being in charge of the chicken coop.

    But the way the republican party has managed to convince conservatives to put Party loyalty before national loyalty is at the heart of it all.

    To convince people that if THEIR party did it, it MUST be okay.
    - Like Nixon telling David Frost, to his face, that if the President does something, anything, then its legal.


    Oh- and all these regulations the Republicans keep sweeping aside with disastrous results?
    They are ALL regulations that were put in effect BECAUSE of previous disasters.
     
  19. D_Davy_Downspout

    D_Davy_Downspout Account Disabled

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2004
    Messages:
    1,144
    Likes Received:
    0
    Libertarians believe that the free market will take care of itself, and that government regulation is wrong.

    In reality, instead of libertopia, people are greedy and will fuck themselves and the public to make a short term dollar. The government needs to have some form of regulation to prevent shit like this from happening. It has been proven time and time again that unregulated markets will end up fucking themselves.
     
  20. sargon20

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    11,369
    Likes Received:
    2,099
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Atlantis
    Well the US government has just stepped into yet ANOTHER rescue...but what happened to SMALL GOVERNMENT?

    U.S. Plans Rescue of AIG to Halt Crisis;
    Central Banks Inject Cash as Credit Dries Up

    $85 Billion Loan for Giant Insurer Aimed at Averting Collapse;
    Historic Move Would Cap 10 Days That Reshaped U.S. Finance;
    Fed Says AIG Will Sell Businesses in Orderly Manner

    By MATTHEW KARNITSCHNIG, DEBORAH SOLOMON and LIAM PLEVEN



    The U.S. government was moving toward an emergency rescue of American International Group Inc. -- one of the world's biggest insurers -- signaling the intensity of its concerns about the danger a collapse could pose to the financial system.

    It's a dramatic turnabout for the federal government, which has strongly resisted overtures from AIG for an emergency loan or some intervention that would prevent the insurer from falling into bankruptcy. Just last weekend, the government effectively pulled the plug on Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc., allowing the big investment bank to fail instead of giving it financial support.

    The precise details of the government's plans were still being formulated late Tuesday. The primary option being hammered out involved the Fed providing AIG with a short-term "bridge" loan of $85 billion, according to people familiar with the situation. In exchange, the government would receive warrants in AIG representing the right to buy its stock, under certain conditions. That could put the government in a position to potentially control a private insurer, a historic move, particularly considering that AIG isn't directly regulated by the federal government.
     
    #20 sargon20, Sep 16, 2008
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2008
Draft saved Draft deleted