Scared of San Fransisco and New York!

simcha

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HA!

Best, friendliest and most affordable food north of the border!

No, very dangerous to live in if you are white (and I was assuming Chrissy Snow is white I might be wrong), decent food and dirty. There is no friendly place in the entire Bay Area.

Crissy, you will find that people are less friendly here than in Houston. They think they're friendly, but just smile at someone in a store, the look you get back is quite something other than friendly.

People who live in San Francisco try to claim that they aren't part of the "Bay Area" and that everywhere else is "fucked up" by comparison. It's part of that snobbery I was telling you about a few posts up.

Also, people want to claim that race doesn't matter here in Oakland, San Francisco or anywhere else in the Bay Area. As a matter of fact it does. People won't yell things at you for being different, but you sure get treated differently if you are in a neighborhood where they feel you don't belong.

And don't let them fool you San Francisco is actually dangerous.

Here are some useful snippets of information you might like to see. Keep in mind that San Francisco is a city of only 750,000 people.

Also notice that for 2005 San Francisco had just as many murders as Oakland that year. That's one of those statistics they use to slam Oakland.

San Francisco California Crime Reports, Crime News, and Crime Statistics (Data for 2006 is only through September)

http://www.sfgov.org/site/uploadedfiles/police/information/compstat%20monthly%202005.pdf

http://www.sfgov.org/site/uploadedfiles/police/information/compstat monthly 2006 jantosept.pdf (Not the complete year 2006 only Jan through Sept)

San Francisco Crime Map

San Francisco Crime Statistics and Crime Data (San Francisco, CA)

So, also, I'm sure that any big city has the same issues. The problem with SFO is that the people there think they're safe, when, in fact, they aren't.
 

ActionBuddy

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There is no friendly place in the entire Bay Area.

Wow! What a statement!

Crissy, I guess my Grandma hasn't had grumpy Simcha over for 4:00 Tea in The City yet.

Forget about the crime reports... geesh!

You seem like a sensible gal... have you visited Portland, Oregon? Rainy, but a great place to kick-start your adult life, especially if you have ideas of your own.

Onan
 

simcha

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Wow! What a statement!

Crissy, I guess my Grandma hasn't had grumpy Simcha over for 4:00 Tea in The City yet.
...
Onan

LOL! To me it's a matter of perspective. I'm from Chicago. If you say smile and say, "Hello" to someone in a store or passing on the sidewalk, chances are they will at least smile back and maybe say, "Hello." Here in all of the Bay Area I get looked at like I'm from Mars or something if I smile and say, "Hello."

And sometimes I can be a grumpy guss. And I'm generalizing, yet again. :rolleyes:
 

earllogjam

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Please spell San Francisco right. You will never make it here without knowing how to spell the city properly. It's not "Frisco" or "San Fran" either.

I've lived in both cities and for me New York is heads over heels a more exciting place to live than San Francisco. It is the epicenter of culture, arts, intellectual pursuits and theater in America. It is definitely someplace if you have a chance to live to just do it at least for a year or two. It is a physically and mentally draining place if you are not uber wealthy and have to deal with the riff raff daily. There are just too many people competing for limited resources there. There is a culture of efficiency and a certain expectation of competence at every level built in from Wall Street executives to cab drivers. Things move at a very fast clip. New Yorkers are attitude filled assholes for the most part, a personality trait required to survive there. It's is less seedy as it was before and has undergone major gentrification and a Disneyfication but it does not have any physical or natural beauty whatsoever. Despite all the negatives I mentioned it is a very exciting place that overshadows everything. It is a smorgasbord of new experiences and interesting people.

San Francisco, on the other hand, is downright provincial compared to New York and the metropolitan region that spans from Boston to Washington DC. Things close down in San Francisco at 10pm. It's a small town, 10 square miles with only 700,000 people.

Both cities are very diverse but all the hippies and cool post college kids have been priced out long ago from San Francisco. It seems like a big chunk of the city is Chinese and gay with a whole hell of a lot of Mexicans and metrosexuals mixed in. As the city has become more and more expensive to live the demographics have changed to more younger high income professionals without families. People are polite for the most part. San Franciscans are an easy going namby pamby bunch spoiled by the riches and easy climate of Northern California. You'll never see a fist fight in this city nor an argument for that matter, unlike New York where that unpleasant friction is a daily occurrance. The culture of San Francisco is more like that of entitled welfare recipients - "we live in the most beautiful city on the planet so we are special. We deserve the best even if we can't afford it." There is an emphasis on the good life -food, wine and drinking probably fueled by the heaploads of tourists.

But as a place to live- I'd say it is overrated. I just don't know what the attraction is other than the beauty of the place. Maybe the attraction is the different mindset here than on the eastern seaboard in that most thing are new here and new ideas have a chance to germinate and bloom. Things are not bogged down as much by set traditions and narrow set paths of doing things. People are more open to change and new things. It is probably why most of the innovative inventions and companies are based here like the computer industry, dot.coms, and biotech and pharmacutical firms based in the area. It is home to some of the most creative people and profitable innovative companies in the country and the real estate prices reflect it. It's also a hotbed of venture capital and entreprenurial opportunity. The place attracts people like you -a well educated and skilled labor pool from around the world. Which ever city you choose it will definitely be a vast improvement over Houston.
 

musclebutt2

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No, very dangerous to live in if you are white (and I was assuming Chrissy Snow is white I might be wrong), decent food and dirty. There is no friendly place in the entire Bay Area.

That's a bit of an overstatement Simcha. The Mission is one of the larger neighborhoods in The City and is divided into the Inner and Outer Mission respectively. Before they established families and bought houses in Noe Valley all the baby-dykes inhabited The Mission, just like before the Castro became a gay neighborhood, the original location of all the homo bars was on Polk Street. These days all the hipsters hang out on Valencia Street. The Mission, like every other neighborhood in San Francisco is going through gentrification and "urban renewal." One of the greatest problems facing San Francisco is the greater disparity between socioeconomic classes. The cost of living here is so high that people of color, working families, artists, and numerous others are being priced out. It is quickly becoming a playground for the rich and upwardly mobile. Recent college graduates, creatives, and people in their 20's and 30's choose to slum in the Mission because it's edgy, somewhat affordable, and conveniently located. If they have a big corporate job or are image conscious they will prefer the sterility of The Marina, South Beach or anything north of Geary Street.


Crissy, you will find that people are less friendly here than in Houston. They think they're friendly, but just smile at someone in a store, the look you get back is quite something other than friendly.

That is true of any larger metropolitan city anywhere in the world. California is not Texas and therefore the culture is different. People that have moved from Middle America and The South have adapted to this before and will continue to do so. If you want to say hello to people and expect a response back move to Santa Cruz.


People who live in San Francisco try to claim that they aren't part of the "Bay Area" and that everywhere else is "fucked up" by comparison. It's part of that snobbery I was telling you about a few posts up.

You misunderstood me, and I honestly don't know where all your rancor is coming from. I have no problems with Oakland and what it has to offer, I used to live in Berkeley while working in Downtown Oakland for Kaiser HQ. These days my rowing team practices are on Lake Merritt three days out of the week. During the dot com boom many of the artists that were priced out of San Francisco relocated to Oakland and environs. Not just for me, but there has always been a tie between San Francisco and Oakland. The difference though continues to be lifestyle. For example, there is hardly any gay nightlife in the East Bay or North Bay because everyone comes into San Francisco. San Francisco is the urban experience while Oakland is more suburban, that's true for all areas outside of San Francisco proper. How can San Francisco be separate from the "Bay Area?" Without The City as a catalyst there would be no Bay Area to speak of, simple as that.


Also, people want to claim that race doesn't matter here in Oakland, San Francisco or anywhere else in the Bay Area. As a matter of fact it does. People won't yell things at you for being different, but you sure get treated differently if you are in a neighborhood where they feel you don't belong.

Beyond race, San Francisco is segregated along socioeconomic and class boundaries. That is why there are so many different little neighborhoods with such a strong feel and identity to them.


And don't let them fool you San Francisco is actually dangerous.

Here are some useful snippets of information you might like to see. Keep in mind that San Francisco is a city of only 750,000 people.

That is the population of San Francisco residents. However, during the hours of 9-5 the population jumps up to over a million due to commuters.


So, also, I'm sure that any big city has the same issues. The problem with SFO is that the people there think they're safe, when, in fact, they aren't.

Wow! What a statement!

Crissy, I guess my Grandma hasn't had grumpy Simcha over for 4:00 Tea in The City yet.

Forget about the crime reports... geesh!

You seem like a sensible gal... have you visited Portland, Oregon? Rainy, but a great place to kick-start your adult life, especially if you have ideas of your own.

Onan

I agree with Onan, Portland is a very charming and GREEN city, I wouldn't mind living there for a couple of years. But if you are itching to move to a big city Portland probably isn't big enough. On the Left Coast your options for big cities are going to be Vancouver, San Francisco, and Los Angeles.

Edit: In response to Earllogjam, San Francisco is one of those bizarre magical places that either speaks to you or not. It's a very transient city with people moving in and out all the time; however, if The City claims your heart, you will fight tooth and nail to stay here regardless of price. You will quickly know whether you belong here or not, and if you remain undecided the next earthquake will help make up your mind. I personally don't see the appeal of NYC, but that's my bias. When I visited NYC for three weeks I actually preferred Jersey City, it had more personality to me.
 

wldhoney

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I lived in Monterey as a child, San Francisco after college when I worked for the airlines, and New York, (or rather Long Island) for a short amount of time when my husband had to go back home to help his parents.

I disliked New York, unless you headed out of the city. Upstate is beautiful. It was fun to visit, but living there something was different. Yes, there is a lot to do, but I found it a bit harsh, often dirty, and very, very shallow. That doesn't mean it's that way every where, it was just my experience.

I loved living in San Francisco. Yes, it's very, very expensive. However, if you can afford to live there or near by it's amazing. The area and city are beautiful. It's very cultural, diverse, interesting. There is always something to do, something for all tastes. The food, theater in the park, music bars and clubs from extremely casual to elegant to wild. And there are so many beautiful places within a few hours drive. People were always fun and open and much more accepting and relaxed than New York.

Good luck to you! Change is always scary, but life is about new experiences.....enjoy!!
 

wldhoney

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Wow! What a statement!

Crissy, I guess my Grandma hasn't had grumpy Simcha over for 4:00 Tea in The City yet.

Forget about the crime reports... geesh!

You seem like a sensible gal... have you visited Portland, Oregon? Rainy, but a great place to kick-start your adult life, especially if you have ideas of your own.

Onan

Onan, I currently live in Portland. Yes, it's a fun city and very diverse. I did have a very hard time getting used to the rain, even after living in San Francisco, possibly because of time spent in Phoenix first. :eek:

I agree it's a great place to be as a young adult.....it's people friendly, loves to embrace the new while enjoying the classics. And Oregon is great if you love the outdoors....beaches, mountains, flora and fauna.
 

ActionBuddy

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A very weird thing about the City of San Francisco, is that it has almost no nightlife after Midnight. There are bars, dance, and horny Sex clubs going on until 2AM, but, after that, very few places to finish something off or get a meal other than a few Doughnut shops with weak coffee, with fat Cops looking at you as a perpetrator. It's strange that way.

And if you party in The City, but, you live in the East Bay, when you miss that last BART train, you are fucked... big time!... and your only choices are a $40 cab ride across a bridge or waiting it out for the bus, involving 3 transfers to get home. Even then, your food choices will be 7-11, Dunkin' Donuts or Taco Bell.

Very strange, for such a cosmopolitan place. But, another reason to admire the adventurous restaurants and Public Transportation in Portland, Oregon.

Onan
 

Love-it

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New York is dirty, not everywhere but it shows. If you are not used to icy winters and have no interest in snow, don't go.

San Francisco has fog, damp bone aching chills and it is everywhere, you can only wait and hope for the sun or wind to drive it away. You are closer to clean beaches, mountains and wilderness than most places.

Me, I prefer a dry climate with mountains and seasons.
 

wldhoney

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A very weird thing about the City of San Francisco, is that it has almost no nightlife after Midnight. There are bars, dance, and horny Sex clubs going on until 2AM, but, after that, very few places to finish something off or get a meal other than a few Doughnut shops with weak coffee, with fat Cops looking at you as a perpetrator. It's strange that way.

And if you party in The City, but, you live in the East Bay, when you miss that last BART train, you are fucked... big time!... and your only choices are a $40 cab ride across a bridge or waiting it out for the bus, involving 3 transfers to get home. Even then, your food choices will be 7-11, Dunkin' Donuts or Taco Bell.

Very strange, for such a cosmopolitan place. But, another reason to admire the adventurous restaurants and Public Transportation in Portland, Oregon.

Onan


Yes, that is very true. Both PDX and SFO have so much to offer.

Here we have the Hawthorne district, with ecclectic clothing stores and restaurants like the Cup and Saucer, to downtown with it's elegant restaurants on the waterfront, Powell's, Spartacus :biggrin1:, the Edgefield and McMinnemins micro-breweries.

In San Francisco you have Fisherman's Wharf, Chinatown, odd museums, the Holy cow vs. the Firehouse, always something new you haven't heard of to go see, Around the World Deli's, the trolleys, and it is so beautiful at Christmas.
 

ActionBuddy

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Well ... I just want to know if San Francisco is a nice place or would New York be more of a exciting place...

Back to you, Crissy... with your talents, and especially being able to speak 3 languages, at your young age... go to New York. You will be taken in and admired. Your career will blossom.

San Francisco is for people who already have a course in mind. And it's usually "coarse" people... as you can see from this thread.

Go for the gold... in NYC!

Onan
 

wldhoney

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LOL! To me it's a matter of perspective. I'm from Chicago. If you say smile and say, "Hello" to someone in a store or passing on the sidewalk, chances are they will at least smile back and maybe say, "Hello." Here in all of the Bay Area I get looked at like I'm from Mars or something if I smile and say, "Hello."

And sometimes I can be a grumpy guss. And I'm generalizing, yet again. :rolleyes:

San Francisco is for people who already have a course in mind. And it's usually "coarse" people... as you can see from this thread.

Yes, generalizations here, which is a real shame. Ouch, Onan.

Simcha, a hate to burst your bubble, (insert winky face here :) )but I have been to Chicago a number of times and rarely found it to be that friendly. Of course, I didn't find New York to be friendly either. That doesn't mean that everyone was that way, it was simply my experience at the time.

I'm a smiler, and always make eye contact and say hello to people, and I have to say that I found Phoenix to be the friendliest city to live in.

Crissy, what you experience will depend on what you put into it. Really, every city has something to offer, it's just a matter of getting out there and enjoying it. I moved around a lot when I was younger, and was a military brat, so I love the differences, and you will appreciate them even more as you get older!
 

B_NineInchCock_160IQ

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San Francisco and New York are both great cities and places I would love to live. I lived just outside of San Francisco for several months. The closest I've been to New York is my present location in the Washington DC area, but I've visited several times.

There are plenty of things to do in both cities, plenty of great restaurants, clubs, etc. both places. I'd say that New York edges out San Francisco in terms of things to do, but it's not a landslide victory. I prefer the museums and theater in New York. On the other hand, there is more natural beauty around San Francisco if you're willing to travel a little bit: great beaches, Muir Woods, Napa Valley, Yosemite, Tahoe, etc all within easy driving distance.

San Fran wins out in terms of climate, too, unless you are really married to snow and changing seasons. The summers there aren't usually too hot and the winters are extremely mild. Probably the single greatest area in the United States in terms of agreeable weather.

Both places are extremely expensive to live, far more than Houston, make sure you consider that before you go anywhere.
 

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Osiris... props to ya, but you live in Bellevue or Kirkland or somewhere on the exceedingly staid Eastside of Lake Washington, right? Living in Novato is nothing like living in San Francisco. That's like comparing it to downtown Seattle, when actually you live 35 miles away in the safety zones of Mill Creek or Issaquah Heights.

Onan

True, but if you recall I said I liked that you could escape to Novato for the warm, sunnier weather. I did, in my last three years in the city, live on Treasure Island, then Webvan died and getting groceries was a total bitch. After the fall of the dotcoms, the TI Experiment started to go downhill and a lot of crime was moving to the Island. I later lived in Parkside right on the L Taraval line. I liked city life as well. I still miss my Squat and Gobble fix up at West Portal. I would agree to a point with Simcha on certain areas to stay away from and sort of include The Haight. It has become way too touristy and the prices were going up massively when I was there.

I should have been more explanatory in my post, but I was being called by the spawn to settle a dispute over X-Box usage.

And for the record, I live in staid Woodinville. :smile:
 

Hellboy0

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Both are great cities. But my vote is on San Francisco...Might be expensive for some things, but there are a lot of cheap eateries, coffee houses, bars, etc to go to once you get your feet on the ground.

Rent is a lot in both cities so you can't really compare that way. Be prepared to fork out for that. But I still think San Francisco is more scenic, weather better (though a bit cool and damp...makes green things grow), and easier to fit into.

I lived there for 8 years and miss it every day since I moved almost 14 years ago...
 

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HA!

Best, friendliest and most affordable food north of the border!

I hear that! The best taquerias hands down and where else do you find a proper Mission Burrito?

A very weird thing about the City of San Francisco, is that it has almost no nightlife after Midnight. There are bars, dance, and horny Sex clubs going on until 2AM, but, after that, very few places to finish something off or get a meal other than a few Doughnut shops with weak coffee, with fat Cops looking at you as a perpetrator. It's strange that way.

And if you party in The City, but, you live in the East Bay, when you miss that last BART train, you are fucked... big time!... and your only choices are a $40 cab ride across a bridge or waiting it out for the bus, involving 3 transfers to get home. Even then, your food choices will be 7-11, Dunkin' Donuts or Taco Bell.

Onan

You forgot the Burger King at Market and 8th. You can get a late night food fix and sometimes get hit on by the old prostitutes. :biggrin1:

LOL! To me it's a matter of perspective. I'm from Chicago. If you say smile and say, "Hello" to someone in a store or passing on the sidewalk, chances are they will at least smile back and maybe say, "Hello." Here in all of the Bay Area I get looked at like I'm from Mars or something if I smile and say, "Hello."

And sometimes I can be a grumpy guss. And I'm generalizing, yet again. :rolleyes:

My experience with Chicago vs. San Francisco is flipped from yours. I found most people from Chicago rather abrasive and not very friendly. I always got a hello in San Francisco in my neighborhood and when shopping around in the Castro. depends on where you are and when. Now if you are in the Fiancial distrcit, you are going to be hard pressed to find anyone saying hi to you because we were either running to the office, to the ferry, to the bus, Metro, BART. Mainly we were trying to avoid the idiot nazi bicycle messengers outside our building. I was glad to move offices from Market and 2nd to Francisco St. right across from Houston's.
 

AlteredEgo

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I have lived in NY for 27 years, which is roughly long enough to be tired of it. Having said that, I once absolutely loved this city, and never thought I'd look forward to moving out of it.

I'll start with my least favorite things, so I can end on a positive note later. It smells. There are no two ways about it. The absolute worst thing about New York, particularly downtown, especially in the summer, is the stomach-wrenching stench. Rotten fish, ripe garbage, horse leavings, stale urine, spilled beer and cigarette smoke persist everywhere.

It's dirty. That needs no explanation. You've seen movies, I'm sure.

Chivalry has officially died here. Do not expect much generosity (in the form of a desperately needed seat, help with a stroller, or groceries) from New Yorkers.

Tourists are always in the way. There is no "tourist season". They are always here. They never go home. Tourists do not have an appreciation for the pace of this city, and they create delays. You will notice this, if you move here, once you are adjusted to the pace yourself. We do not mosey. New Yorkers always walk with a purpose. The roses can smell themselves, dammnit.That brings me to the crowds.

This city has a night time population of over 8 Million. For example, not counting the apartment building on the corner, there are close to 50 residences on my block. More than 150 people live on it, and not only do I not know all of their names, I don't know their faces. That's BLOCK. Not neighborhood. The daytime population is over 10 Million.

There is a very high crime rate here, and unless you have a lot of cash, it will feel like most of it will happen right in your neighborhood.

Apathy. I'm convinced the average New Yorker will pretend they don't see anything if you are ever in any type of distress. On the other hand, if one person does try to help you, a bunch of others will likely join in.

Smog and streetlights conspire to create a phenomenon known as false dawn. It is killing our birds according to some sources. It's a form of light pollution. Who knew too much light was a type of pollution, right?

Summer and winter suck. Hard. Twice, every fucking year. Also here's a little-known fact: We get significantly more rain than Seattle. We just don't get it all at once like they do. However, it rains here. A lot. Hard. Lately, when it does, the MTA (public transit) has a crisis and shuts down, stranding millions.

Expense! My grandmother paid 25K for this two-family row house in the 60's. It appraised for over 400K before the last census. That's nearly 4 times what this house, on this size lot, would be worth anywhere else in the country. Subway fares are at $2 each way. A drink in most bars is $6-9 if the cocktail contains two or fewer liquors. And we tip heavily here. A bartender sees a dollar or more from each drink, and waitstaff get 16-20%. Anything less and you're a cheapskate; you will be treated accordingly. Cover charges at night clubs are typically $20, but you can try to put your name on your favorite guest lists. Rent for a one bedroom in my neighborhood (typical lower-middle class/ working class neighborhood full of nurses, teachers, drivers, and skilled labor) is $850-1000. I live on the absolute outskirts of the city. To get a daily commute of 40 minutes or fewer, expect your rent to be $1200 or more, or live in the ghetto and pay $850, but be at work in 15 minutes or so. (But that ghetto is called Hunt's Point, and I think you might have heard the rumors. Try not to live there, okay?) A movie is $12, and the popcorn is another $6.

As someone mentioned, there is a "culture of efficiency" (so perfectly worded!) and an expectation (if not outright demand) for competence. When you begin your career here, there will be little room for error, and you will need to be extremely insistent that whomsoever gets you oriented to your new position will make sure you understand exactly what is expected of you. I have seen a few friends make horrendous blunders due to poor orientation. Don't let that be you.

Here's what I like. This city is fast! This city truly never sleeps. You can get whatever you want, whenever you want it. This is especially true if you have the financial means. When you live in New York (and have access to cash or power) the entire world is your oyster. Even if you are of simple means, you can get pretty much whatever you would want at any hour. Duck L'Orange at 2AM? I can get that. Bubble wrap at a quarter to 3? I can get that too. Locally grown, certified organic produce delivered to your door weekly? Mine arrives Thursdays.

If you like to be busy, you need to be here. There is always something to do, and if you know where to get the information, fun can be had on any budget, especially in the summer.

The ocean. In NY, the ocean is a very, very dark blue. Further north, by Boston (219 miles away) it is hunter green. You should see it. Bay areas on this coast smell fishy, but other coastal parts just smell salty.

We have the most complicated public transit system in the world, and one of the oldest. Consequently, you can get ANYWHERE in the entire metro area without a car. You can get anywhere in the 5 boroughs for $2 and a smile.

Some of the best sensual experiences can be had here. Food, entertainment, art, you name it.

Investing in real estate here will always pay.

It's easy to meet new people here.

Sample sales from design houses.

One person said NYC has no beauty. It's not true. This is a gorgeous city, and it does have even some natural beauty. The largest park in the whole city, Pelham Bay Park in the Bronx, extending out to City Island is actually mostly natural. we have tons of pretty parks, and you can't beat NY for architecture. (Not in USA anyway.) We have a, wonderful mix of old and new.


I know I had more good things to add, but I just worked an overnight, and I'm exhausted.

Some things you should know:
Manhattan is called Downtown, or The City. The other boroughs are referred to as The Outer-boroughs. Whatever weather is promised for Westchester will affect the Bronx. Fifth Ave divides The City into east and west. Passengers on te right of escalators, walkers on the left. lounge on the left and feel the wrath. The Bronx is the only part of NYC attached to the mainland. Bronx is north, Brooklyn's South. It is illegal to take photos in the subway or on bridges. if you use an E-Z pass and speed on the Jersey tpke, expect a speeding ticket to be mailed to you. The E-Z pass knows how soon you can legally reach you exit from your point of entry. Indoor public smoking has been banned.
 

Eva

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I grew up in California and now live in Houston. I loved growing up there. I loved living there. Like most natives, my world revolved around California. And now, it's a nice place to visit but I don't think I would ever voluntarily move back. Once I left, it was a whole new world out there. California is a very state (and really, region/city) centric area. In California, nothing matters more than California. World politics? What, you mean Sacramento?

I also have to take issue with your statement that Houston sucks. Having gone from CA to TX, I can tell you that everything you want in California, with the exception of carne asada, and be found in Texas. Generally, it's cheaper and better quality. And the Texan who helps you find it isn't trying to stick a knife in your back. Houston has its issues (I miss mountains and carne asada) but I'm thriving here far more than I ever could have if I'd stayed in my home state.

And for the love of god and all things holy, please do not EVER call the state "Cali." No one does this. LL Cool J needs to shut the fuck up.