Schiavo autopsy released

[mindseye]

The autopsy of Terri Schiavo was released today, showing that she had not been abused, and that she had no chance of recovery, as her brain had atrophied to twice the size of the president's.

In particular, it suggests that the ability of Doctor Bill Frist to diagnose patients from video tape alone (article/raw transcript) is. . .not as good as he claims. On March 17, he decided that the physicians who had examined Schiavo in person were all wrong, because "she certainly seems to respond to visual stimuli." The autopsy showed that Schiavo was, in fact, blind.

 

[steve319]

Well, regardless of where one stands on this issue (Let's not start a ruckus, kids! We all know where we stand on this issue and aren't going to change anyone else's views), I daresay that this is probably better news than the alternative would have been.

 

[madame_zora]

Ah, but Steve, we live to ruckus! The autopsy just proves that this case was nothing special or exceptional in any way, and that it should have been what it is for everyone else- a private family matter instead of a media circus.

 

[prepstudinsc]

I was surprised to read that they didn't think that she had an eating disorder. While all the hullabaloo was going on, that was all we heard about why her potassium levels were out of whack. Regardless of what happened, at least we all know now that there was no hope for her--which was pretty obvious from watching all the news clips. There is always a chance for a miracle, but...
I do think that her husband shouldn't have had his girlfriend/common-law wife/whatever you want to call her while he was still married, but he technically was still married by law to Terry Schiavo, so he ultimately did have control of her medical care and burial. I know it's been rough on the parents, but having her just stay in a vegetative state would just only prolong their misery. I blame the media for turning what should have been a private family battle into a media circus that went 'round the world. It got so out of control that it was being run on emotions and not fact. I just wish that there had been a way for her to die on her own instead of removing the feeding tube. If she could have died in her sleep or from some other cause it would have made everything easier and she wouldn't have just dehydrated to death. The thought of that makes me wince.

 

[mindseye]

Originally posted by prepstudinsc@Jun 15 2005, 08:37 PM
I blame the media for turning what should have been a private family battle into a media circus that went 'round the world.

[post=321060]Quoted post[/post]​

I give "the media" a pass on this one -- politicians and lawmakers got involved and intervened, even going so far as to pass an unconstitutional special-purpose law on her behalf. Once our elected officials get involved, it's news -- we voted for them, we deserve to be informed of what sort of shenanigans they're wasting taxpayer dollars on. I blame the likes of Bill Frist and Randall Terry for turning this into a media circus.

I'll concur however, that a few specific media figures went overboard in pushing this story.

 

[steve319]

Originally posted by madame_zora@Jun 15 2005, 09:26 PM
Ah, but Steve, we live to ruckus! The autopsy just proves that this case was nothing special or exceptional in any way, and that it should have been what it is for everyone else- a private family matter instead of a media circus.

[post=321054]Quoted post[/post]​

SHHHHHH!

My God, you just LIVE to get the sh*t-slinging started, don't you?

*whispering* I agree though. The horror of it all is magnified by making it headline news across the country. I'd hate for that to be my family on parade. On the other hand, perhaps the whole awful ordeal got America talking and thinking about the issue. It couldn't be a bad thing for more of us to make our wishes known to family members so that the burden won't lie on them to make hard choices when our own time comes.

 

[MASSIVEPKGO_CHUCK]

Originally posted by madame_zora@Jun 16 2005, 01:26 AM
Ah, but Steve, we live to ruckus! The autopsy just proves that this case was nothing special or exceptional in any way, and that it should have been what it is for everyone else- a private family matter instead of a media circus.

[post=321054]Quoted post[/post]​

Nail right on the head there, MZ. And so now that this autopsy proves conclusively that it was indeed not all it was cracked up to be, and should've been left to just that; private family affairs and no one elses, not even the media.

Oh, and Steven, telling this group not to ruckus is like telling Bart Simpson not to a little brat for one second. It has no feesible value.

 

[KinkGuy]

Fuck it. I DO NOT care WHO I piss off. :grr:

This poor woman, her family, her husband...her right to die with dignity and a myriad of laws, rights and wishes had absolutely nothing to do with the entire sad, pathetic series of events. Politicians had everything to do with how ugly, hateful and divisive it all was, and is. Situations such as this occur every single, solitary day in this country, with no biased courts, illegal laws or Sean Hannity broadcasting live from the Hospice center. All carefully orchestrated media coverage. The case had been in the courts for a long time and after all, it was Florida.

May Bill Frist rot in hell. Oh, that's right.....he pulled the plug on his own father a few years ago and that was somehow different?

 

[Dr. Dilznick]

Regardless of the autopsy findings, the Schindlers continue to believe their daughter was not in a persistent vegetative state, their lawyer, David Gibbs III, said after Thogmartin's report.

Another instance of Christians being more concerned with their own wounded pride, feelings, and "beliefs" rather than scientific evidence. See also: Evolution.

 

[madame_zora]

Originally posted by Dr. Dilznick@Jun 16 2005, 05:09 AM

Regardless of the autopsy findings, the Schindlers continue to believe their daughter was not in a persistent vegetative state, their lawyer, David Gibbs III, said after Thogmartin's report.

Another instance of Christians being more concerned with their own wounded pride, feelings, and "beliefs" rather than scientific evidence. See also: Evolution.

[post=321120]Quoted post[/post]​

Yeah, why pay attention to a medical specialist when you can invent excuses for your reprehensible behavior? I can understand a mother's grief, truly, but this woman had been gone for a long time already, it was the mother who needed mental help in dealing with the loss, not Teri. Someone with some common sense should have stepped in to help her deal with the facts rather than fanning the flames.

 

[major_7]

Yes, Steve, perhaps this got people to put some sort of plan in action. My family knows not to let me stay in that sort of shape.

I had to take the responsibility for the doctors pulling the plug on my lover in 1993. It was the hardest fucking decision I have ever had to make and even typing this right now puts tears in my eyes. He had said that he didn't want to live in such a state as to have machines breathing for him, tubes feeding him, etc. But to have the doctors stop the machine, and then to slowly watch someone little by l;ittle slip into death is very hard.

The only saving grace was that he was no longer suffering.

I can certainly understand the pain the parents were going through with Terry. But it was fairly obvious that she was never going to be a whole person ever. I am thankful that the autopsy proved that.

Dear Terry ~ rest in peace.

 

[Dr. Dilznick]

Originally posted by madame_zora
Yeah, why pay attention to a medical specialist when you can invent excuses for your reprehensible behavior? I can understand a mother's grief, truly, but this woman had been gone for a long time already, it was the mother who needed mental help in dealing with the loss, not Teri. Someone with some common sense should have stepped in to help her deal with the facts rather than fanning the flames.

I hope that their faith based lunacy gets consistently rebuked in court this time around. Only this time, they should be billed for all of the taxpayer dollars they are wasting.

Out of curiosity, I looked this up on the Fox News website; you know, the network which made this case their 24 hour morality scream-fest for several weeks. Took a few minutes to find it...but there, sheepishly in the lower right hand column, nine stories down in small black and white was a text link saying only "Schiavo Autopsy Released". LOL

 

[madame_zora]

People live and die, that a natural occurance. I'm not ready to take on the whole religous right over this, but it does get annoying when you have to hear all this shit for weeks and then when it's discovered that it was all a waste (as any sane person should well have known) it barely gets mentioned. Sure, when tragedy strikes at an untimely age it is horrific to the family, having spent five years working in cemeteries with grieving families, I know this well, but that's no excuse for people who are not losing a family member to be so shocked that people die! If these people believe so strongly that God exists and she's going to heaven, then why the absurd attempts to prolong a miserable and vegetative existance? It's fear, nothing more. No consideration to the victim, just selfish desire to keep her around so they won't have to face their own fears.

 

[major_7]

Originally posted by madame_zora@Jun 16 2005, 03:04 PM
It's fear, nothing more. No consideration to the victim, just selfish desire to keep her around so they won't have to face their own fears.

[post=321242]Quoted post[/post]​

Exactly. It takes a very brave person to let go.

It is sad, and very difficult, but you have to think of the other person involved.

 

[KinkGuy]

Major 7,
Thank you. You were kind, smart and noble. May you carry the beauty of your partner and the relationship with you always.

 

[MASSIVEPKGO_CHUCK]

Originally posted by madame_zora+Jun 16 2005, 08:46 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(madame_zora &#064; Jun 16 2005, 08:46 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Dr. Dilznick@Jun 16 2005, 05:09 AM

Regardless of the autopsy findings, the Schindlers continue to believe their daughter was not in a persistent vegetative state, their lawyer, David Gibbs III, said after Thogmartin&#39;s report.

Another instance of Christians being more concerned with their own wounded pride, feelings, and "beliefs" rather than scientific evidence. See also: Evolution.

[post=321120]Quoted post[/post]​

Yeah, why pay attention to a medical specialist when you can invent excuses for your reprehensible behavior? I can understand a mother&#39;s grief, truly, but this woman had been gone for a long time already, it was the mother who needed mental help in dealing with the loss, not Teri. Someone with some common sense should have stepped in to help her deal with the facts rather than fanning the flames.

[post=321124]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]

Yeah, dig it there, MZ, the mother had lost a realistic grasp of what had happened and just clung on to an optimistic view that somehow her daughter&#39;d ever come back.

Faith is good, but only if it&#39;s justified and valid, and reviewing the thing time and time again, I&#39;d have to say it wasn&#39;t.

 

[MASSIVEPKGO_CHUCK]

Originally posted by madame_zora+Jun 16 2005, 08:46 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(madame_zora &#064; Jun 16 2005, 08:46 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Dr. Dilznick@Jun 16 2005, 05:09 AM

Regardless of the autopsy findings, the Schindlers continue to believe their daughter was not in a persistent vegetative state, their lawyer, David Gibbs III, said after Thogmartin&#39;s report.

Another instance of Christians being more concerned with their own wounded pride, feelings, and "beliefs" rather than scientific evidence. See also: Evolution.

[post=321120]Quoted post[/post]​

Yeah, why pay attention to a medical specialist when you can invent excuses for your reprehensible behavior? I can understand a mother&#39;s grief, truly, but this woman had been gone for a long time already, it was the mother who needed mental help in dealing with the loss, not Teri. Someone with some common sense should have stepped in to help her deal with the facts rather than fanning the flames.

[post=321124]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]

Yeah, dig it there, MZ, the mother had lost a realistic grasp of what had happened and just clung on to an optimistic view that somehow her daughter&#39;d ever come back.

Faith is good, but only if it&#39;s justified and valid, and reviewing the thing time and time again, I&#39;d have to say it wasn&#39;t.

 

[Freddie53]

Originally posted by madame_zora@Jun 16 2005, 02:04 PM
I&#39;m not ready to take on the whole religous right over this, but it does get annoying when you have to hear all this shit for weeks and then when it&#39;s discovered that it was all a waste (as any sane person should well have known) it barely gets mentioned.

[post=321242]Quoted post[/post]​

Oh come on Jana, it is summer and there isn&#39;t much going on why not take on the religious right? We&#39;ve got real goods on them on this one. After a week in Branson, Mo, on vacation, I am rested and ready for battle.

Dr. D, you and I are on the same page on this one except for one item. Not all Chrsitians were in favor of the parents. Many Christians were for pulling the plug. I know you are not a Christian, but for argument&#39;s sake, why would a true Christian won&#39;t to keep a loved one in the stae that Terri was in, when there is a wonderful heaven awaiting them. Terri&#39;s parents say they believe she is in heaven. Why would anyone who believes that want to bring them Terri back to the situation she was in.

Dr. D, you are right that it was Christians leading this. But, it was the Christian right, not all Christians.

 

[Dr. Dilznick]

Originally posted by Freddie53
I know you are not a Christian, but for argument&#39;s sake, why would a true Christian won&#39;t to keep a loved one in the stae that Terri was in, when there is a wonderful heaven awaiting them.

So you get to decide who&#39;s a true Christian? I think that&#39;s up to God to decide.

And I think you know the answer to this question already. If you don&#39;t, ask Pecker.

 

[Freddie53]

Originally posted by Dr. Dilznick+Jun 18 2005, 04:42 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dr. Dilznick &#064; Jun 18 2005, 04:42 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Freddie53
I know you are not a Christian, but for argument&#39;s sake, why would a true Christian won&#39;t to keep a loved one in the stae that Terri was in, when there is a wonderful heaven awaiting them.

So you get to decide who&#39;s a true Christian? I think that&#39;s up to God to decide.

And I think you know the answer to this question already. If you don&#39;t, ask Pecker.

[post=321983]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]
I didn&#39;t mention anything about me deciding who a true Christian is. My quote was, "Why would a true Christian won&#39;t to keep a loved on in the state that Terri was in, when there is a wonderful heaven awating them." I stand by that.

My statement "I know you are not a Christian" is based on what you said. If I misunderstood you please accept my apologies. My memory says that you claim to be atheist. Again if my memory is faulty, accept my apologies.

My belief is that is is God who is the final judge in all things.

Since you have brought Pecker into this, I will take you up on your suggestion. Pecker, can you explain to me what I don&#39;t understand about Christianity.

I do need some help.