Oh and the anti-circ brigade couldn't care less about religious freedom. They believe that their agenda is way more important than the right of people to practice their religion in peace. This is why my respect for them runs thin and I get quite suspicious of their motives.
Scientists: circumcision = male genital mutilation and should be outlawed
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Oh and the anti-circ brigade couldn't care less about religious freedom. They believe that their agenda is way more important than the right of people to practice their religion in peace. This is why my respect for them runs thin and I get quite suspicious of their motives.
I'm not asserting that all forms of FGM are "equal" to male circumcision. Of course their not "equal" but the point was that some people believe the FGM is integral to [I should have written "prescribed by"] their religion/faith. And yet it's banned in USA and other countries. Unequal protection under law.
I don't recall claiming "medical knowledge" sufficient to "cure" phimosis via the internet. If I did, please post a link to such post(s); and I will post a disclaimer to those threads. As I recall, the medical studies I've cited have been published in peer-reviewed professional medical journals. Here's an example: Cost-effective Treatment of Phimosis -- Van Howe 102 (4): e43 -- Pediatrics ... enjoy!
Obviously, it's your upper lip.
D_Gunther Snotpole
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If the mother's figure had a small waist-to-hip ratio (read: curvy) there shouldn't be a need for circumcision. Right? He should be perfect when he's popped out of the oven.
Its not banning it that is bashing, its when someone would say that circ is an outdated barbaric cruel sadistic practice that only ignorant parents with no regard for the child would do... just an example. Basically calling the Jewish religion a bunch of barbaric morons.
So at what point would it be acceptable to say that a particular practice is barbaric and should be opposed? Are you saying that anything that any group believes in (in this instance religious, but you mentioned other groups as well) is sacrosanct and should be treated with reverence? I feel entirely justified in saying that the stoning to death of adulterers is entirely barbaric and would only be done by those with a sadistic and controlling outlook on the world. Would you care to argue otherwise? Now that is only practiced by a small number of the members of a particular religion, so perhaps you feel that that would be safe to condemn. How about this one? I feel that it is barbaric to force a woman who has been the victim of rape or incest to carry any child conceived through such an act to term (for the record I'm entirely pro-choice). Now, am I calling all members of the catholic church barbarians? Perhaps in your opinion I am. However I feel that in saying something like that I am condemning the belief (the action, in other cases) not the people. If we don't oppose that which we find repulsive (such as crying foul when people object to the practices of another) then things never change.
Now, I know that my examples are extreme and a far cry from male circumcision (before anyone jumps the gun I am neither comparing stoning nor the prevention of a womans right to chose to snipping off an inch of skin) but I am using them to make a point. Neither am I saying that prejudicial views of any group should be tolerated (at least when that group does no harm to others). I am simply saying that we should be able to separate the beliefs/actions from the people when we condemn them.
Or, y'know, something like that.
I looked back in the thread saw that johnschlong is the one who used word the word sadistic. He's regarded as a troll so don't give his posts too much credence; I didn't. R.I.C. isn't sadistic but I would call it an "outdated barbaric cruel practice" and I've written words to that effect in other threads. That doesn't mean I'm "bashing" a religion and that's not my intent.
In USA, most of the infant circs are Christian boys so using your logic I'm also calling the followers of Christian religions "a bunch of barbaric morons".
Damian Johnson
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Since a few of you guys seem to be soo anti Christian, anti Jewish, anti everything...
Can I assume that you will NOT be celebrating Christmas and New Year??
No presents?? No celebration of Xmas?
I wonder...
:wink:
Can I assume that you will NOT be celebrating Christmas and New Year??
No presents?? No celebration of Xmas?
I wonder...
:wink:
Now fair is fair. If you're going to accuse people, grow a pair and name names - otherwise no one will know whether or not to respond to your snide little comment.
Oh and what on earth does being Christian/Jewish (or liking/disliking either group) have to do with the New Year? For that matter, I'm sure the pagans in the audience could take issue with your presumtion that Christmas is only linked to Christianity...
Damian Johnson
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The truth always hurts
You guys love getting nasty
Well don't give it out if you can't take it back
You guys love getting nasty
Well don't give it out if you can't take it back
Every truth passes through three stages before it is recognized. In the first it is ridiculed, in the second it is opposed, in the third it is regarded as self-evident.
~ Arthur Schopenhauer (German Philosopher, 1788-1860)
~ Arthur Schopenhauer (German Philosopher, 1788-1860)
oh wow, that's profound. I guess Scientology is in the early stages of being self-evident.
Damian Johnson
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Dear Steve - I've had a long think about your views - and you will see another post I have made on one of the other threads reflects your input. I hope you have a good Christmas and an Excellent New Year. Please be assured that I hear and respect the views of you and others on this site. We may not always agree but good open debate is a good thing.
Damian
Damian
There is actually some news from a year ago that circumcision for African males can reduce HIV risk by 50% or more during heterosexual sex. In fact, the study was stopped because they found it to be unethical to continue without circumcising all of the men. The results were that dramatic. Here is the article from the New York Times:
NYT - HIV & Circumcision
H
NYT - HIV & Circumcision
H
Damian Johnson
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