Screw up of Global Proportions

[chrisj428]

Need some guidance here...

Up until the end of January, this guy and I have been the best of friends. We have been through so much together -- his psycho ex girlfriend trying to kill herself, his overbearing parents, the PEGF trying to screw him financially when he finally broke things off with her, our not working together anymore, etc.

The best way I could describe the two of us is "boyfriends without the sex". We were always concerned with the other's needs, trying to make the other's life easier, doing things for each other -- it was fantastic. I couldn't have asked for a better friend and I was one of the few he had. als:

I was even a part of the family -- being invited for Christmas, parties, his cousin's wedding...and that's where things went south. Way south.

At the after wedding party the next day, we were all very trashed (you know where this is going already)... After going back to his house and passing out, I woke up at one point and still drunk and under the influence of the wedding the day before (they've always been very hard for me), I decided to go on a fact-finding mission. He woke up to find my hand somewhere it definitely shouldn't have been. I jumped back into my bed (two singles in the room) and went back to sleep.

The next morning, I woke up first and told him I was heading out. He gave me a big hug (we hug each other every time we part company), bigger than normal, and I headed out the door.

That's the last time he's spoken to me. No returned phonecalls. No returned pages. Nada. That was the 23rd of January.

I've been through the gamut of emotions, played junior-league stalker, kept up with how he's been doing at work since I left, etc.

I'm in the process of printing out some pictures of gatherings we've been at and am planning on dropping them off at his work before he shows up with a note saying: "Remember the good times & let's get back to doing what we do best -- being the best friends anyone could ever ask for."

Good idea? I guess I have nothing to lose. The only hope I have is that he still owes me money. It's not that I want the money back, but I know that he could pay me off (drop it off at my work when I'm not there) and think that if he seriously wanted to separate himself from me, he would have done so already.

Advice?

I would give up five years of my life to rewind back to that night and choose differently. I ruined a three-year relationship, destroyed his trust, faith and respect for me.

How am I going to fix this (if it's even possible)? :cry:

 

[Dr Rock]

if he isn't talking to you, you'll probably waste your time and effort. it would probably be easier and healthier in the long run just to move on.

 

[chrisj428]

Originally posted by Dr Rock@May 31 2005, 03:47 AM
if he isn't talking to you, you'll probably waste your time and effort. it would probably be easier and healthier in the long run just to move on.

[post=316416]Quoted post[/post]​

If that's what he wants, he just needs to cash out and I'm outta there. That's the only reason I haven't done so already -- not the money, but the fact that he hasn't paid me back yet. I know for a fact he hasn't forgotten he owes me money and also know for a fact he's more than well enough in a position to pay the debt if he so chose. He also has the knowledge necessary to get a check to me without actually having to see me.

That's why I'm so confused about this. (Although not nearly as confused about things as he appears to be right now...)

 

[headbang8]

You violated his person without his consent. That's a serious betrayal of trust.

You leapt back into bed--that told him you had a shameful intent. If you'd just stayed where you were, told him that you loved him and wished you could take it to another level, then at least you'd be more honest, more trustworthy. And he could have said yes or no directly.

It's never going to go bacl to the way it was. He won't remember the good times til you assure him that bad time won't happen again. Apologise--by letter, phone message, whatever. Speak directly about what you did--don't mince words or try to excuse yourself with anything else but the truth.

The money part is immaterial. You're in the wrong here.

Just my two cents.

 

[chrisj428]

Originally posted by headbang8@May 31 2005, 03:58 AM
You violated his person without his consent. That's a serious betrayal of trust.

The money part is immaterial. You're in the wrong here.

Just my two cents.

[post=316420]Quoted post[/post]​

Believe me, I couldn't possibly agree with you more. There hasn't been one day in the last four months where I haven't beaten myself up over what happened, what I did, how I handled it and how it's affected him. To say "I'm Sorry" and that I regret what I did would be a serious understatement.

That's why I'm trying to get some advice as how to go about rebuilding that trust...something I fear greatly can't be done. I can sit here and tell you that, definitively, something like this will never (and I do mean never) happen again. Even with consent. The friendship is much more important to me than a relationship ever could be. But, how do I prove a negative? How do I convince someone I betrayed it was a one-time huge error in judgement and that he doesn't have to worry about a repeat???

 

[Dr Rock]

Originally posted by chrisj428@May 31 2005, 03:51 AM
If that's what he wants, he just needs to cash out and I'm outta there.

[post=316418]Quoted post[/post]​

nice priorities I don't see how the money has any bearing on his feelings. quite possibly he's worried that even paying it back might be construed as an invitation for you to try contacting him personally. unless it's literally a bank-breaking financial issue, I think you'll find it more expedient to just forget about it. the government probably steals far more of your money in taxes every month anyway.

 

[chrisj428]

Originally posted by Dr Rock+May 31 2005, 04:09 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dr Rock &#064; May 31 2005, 04:09 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-chrisj428@May 31 2005, 03:51 AM
If that&#39;s what he wants, he just needs to cash out and I&#39;m outta there.

[post=316418]Quoted post[/post]​

nice priorities

[post=316423]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]


You&#39;re missing my point -- the money has nothing to do with it as far as I&#39;m concerned. Maybe you were posting while I was writing?

 

[headbang8]

Originally posted by chrisj428@May 31 2005, 01:06 PM
That&#39;s why I&#39;m trying to get some advice as how to go about rebuilding that trust...something I fear greatly can&#39;t be done.    I can sit here and tell you that, definitively, something like this will never (and I do mean never) happen again.  Even with consent.  The friendship is much more important to me than a relationship ever could be.  But, how do I prove a negative?  How do I convince someone I betrayed it was a one-time huge error in judgement and that he doesn&#39;t have to worry about a repeat???

[post=316422]Quoted post[/post]​

Tell him directly, honestly, and in exactly those words. Then let him go. It will be up to him if he believes you; that&#39;s his right. If he does believe you, count your blessings.

If not, then consider it an expensive lesson--and I don&#39;t mean expensive financially. Don&#39;t cling. Move on. Put the lesson you&#39;ve learned to good use in building new, meaningful friendships, and strengthen those other friendships you value. You&#39;re obviously a good man who made a mistake. Become an even better man from the experience.

 

[reir]

I have had a very, very similar experience to yours, and it cost me the relationship with my best friend (who I have not spoken to, or even known, for 2.5 years). I even recieved a huge hug right before the end.

But, it WAS the end. The first few days were the most painful, knowing I was responsible for wrecking the relationship. But days turned into weeks, then months, then years, etc. I&#39;ve learned my lessons and realize the mistakes I made in that friendship, and I see things in a positive way now. I wouldn&#39;t say I&#39;m happy that things went sour the way they did, but I certainly think I&#39;m a better person for going through that arduous ordeal.

Your friendship is probably not going to rematerialize. Even if it does, it may not be the same as it was before. The best thing to do at this point is learn to accept the change. Learn from the situation, though the entirety of what happened and why may not be clear to you until months from now, or even later. I would say it took me a good year to finally come to terms with the loss of my relationship with my best friend, and I&#39;m glad I finally did.

 

[stiphphiphatumus]

i&#39;m somewhat confused as to why you waited so long. that right there was probably the worst mistake yet. if you had just been upfront within a few days after it happened, you wouldn&#39;t have had to suffer in question this long, and would have been in the &#39;repair&#39; process by now.

on that note, just call him, apologize for the length of time you have spoken to eachother, and the event, then ask to chill together or something. if he says no, maybe remind him of his debt, but you should count your loses in that department, as you did violate him.

good luck

 

[B_hungrick]

I had a similar situation happen to me. A good friend of mine made a move on me that was inappropriate. I didn&#39;t know he had those interests, so even though I was under the influence, the whole experience was pretty bad for me. I&#39;ve come to realize that though my friend was out of line, my own fear was part of the problem too. The fear was about being hurt by someone I trusted and cared about. I think all relationships have to be based on trust and respect. If you and your friend can transcend his fear and your stupidity, you might have a chance to repair the damage. It might take some time.

Talk to him.

 

[Alley Blue]

Originally posted by chrisj428@May 31 2005, 03:38 AM
he best way I could describe the two of us is "boyfriends without the sex". We were always concerned with the other&#39;s needs, trying to make the other&#39;s life easier, doing things for each other -- it was fantastic. I couldn&#39;t have asked for a better friend and I was one of the few he had. als:

[post=316409]Quoted post[/post]​

How did he react when he woke up to find you in his pants so to speak? Upset?
Does he know your gay and did he give you the slightest hint that he was somewhat interested in you ( i.e. "straight guy lookin to walk on the wild side").

 

[Pene_Negro_Grande]

Chrisj428 - sorry this happened to you...I know the value of having best friends in your life...It might be too late but I always keep an open mind to apologize to him...If he is good of a friend as you think - he can definitely forgive you...And maybe your relationship might not be as great as it was before but it will be the start of rebuilding...I have been in somewhat similar drunken situations w/two of my best friends and luckily I am even closer w/them today...

Situations was somewhat different because I think we were aware of what was going on...One best friend grab my hand and put it down his pants which kind of shocked me at first because there was never an indication of anything like this before and he was living w/his girlfriend...Another was when my other best friend and I were drunk and we ended up in my bed naked and kind of just admired each other bodies just kind of touching each other (nothing too wild at all)...But these encounters I think made us closer because it allowed us to be open and talk about anything and I feel we know each other better than anyone else including parents, siblings and girl friends...So if you can try to repair that relationship because it probably will bother you for awhile...

But I have also been in your best friends position too...Once I awoke at a good friends place after being too drunk to drive home and crashed at his place to find him rubbing my leg in a sexual way I guess trying to get a response out of me...I never opened my eyes but just turned away because I valued our friendship...Personally I kind of was getting vibes that he might like me after he and his girlfriend broke up but he was a good friend and I was going to let something like that ruin our friendship...To this day I never said anything about it but we remain good friends and hang out...I just never put myself in that situation w/him like that again...Good luck and I hope things work out w/your best friend...

 

[chrisj428]

Thanks to everyone for their kind words&#33; I had a great post written & stupid computer crashed (go figure), so I&#39;m going to try & reconstruct...

Phatumus -- As for why I waited, I tried talking to him the day after it happened & he wanted none of it. As well as I know him, I&#39;m not surprised -- he is very anti-confrontational and also takes a great deal of time to process any emotions that are not right at the surface. I wanted to give him that time.

Headbang8 -- Thanks for your support&#33;

Hungrick -- He&#39;s known my intentions for quite some time. We&#39;ve talked about it and he&#39;s been very cagey about providing an answer. He put himself at about a 7 on the Kinsey scale (I presented it to him as 0=100% straight & 10=100% gay -- I can never remember which is supposed to be which).

Alleyblu -- How did he react? Not at all. His hand touched mine, I jerked back (more out of the surprise of him waking up than anything else) and that was it. No words were spoken at that point.

His cousin and I have spoken at length about this (he is aware of our conversations) and is of the mindset that there is more going on here than meets the eye as far as he is concerned. I honestly feel that my friend has spent so much time being what everyone expects him to be that he&#39;s locked away his true feelings. I managed to find the key & prop the door open -- he&#39;s struggling very hard now with the emotions that are pouring out right now.

And, before anyone says that maybe he&#39;s just trying to be what I want him to be, I have to say that actions speak louder than words. The amount, type and duration of physical contact we&#39;ve shared is extensive. If you&#39;re working on a car and lean up against someone&#39;s hand on the fender (never mind, grind your crotch into it on three separate occasions), you have to be aware of what you&#39;re doing. And, if you&#39;re too embarassed to say something, you can always ask that person to move out of your way (something he&#39;s done before if I&#39;ve impeded access to part he wants to get at).

I appreciate all the support and help...the two of us are supposed to be at the same BBQ this weekend. I&#39;m going to drop off some pictures for him at work (in a secure location) with a note and, hopefully, that will bring the good times back to the surface enough that we can (after a few beers) talk about getting back to being best friends.

Wish me luck, everyone&#33;

 

[D_Martin van Burden]

Well, if he&#39;s at least 70% gay, then everything should have been right as rain, yes?

I&#39;m kidding.

It seems that you have a really, really strong need for closure -- almost as if you&#39;re ready to accept whatever consequence he gives you, resuming or terminating the friendship. And if it makes you feel better, I don&#39;t know what I would have done in your shoes either. It&#39;s really hard to track a friend sending out mixed signals of the sexual kind, and your friend is just as responsible for his own behavior as you are for yours. After all, grinding his crotch up against your hand isn&#39;t exactly a "Hey, bro&#33;" handshake, now is it?

Scrap the communication devices and just go up to him in person. He can&#39;t dodge you if you&#39;re face to face. And like Headbang said, be absolutely, positively honest about your feelings -- both in your sincerity of apology for putting your hand in his pants and telling him that you need to know if you two can still remain friends.

 

[Alley Blue]

Originally posted by DeeBlackthorne@May 31 2005, 04:33 PM
Well, if he&#39;s at least 70% gay, then everything should have been right as rain, yes?

I&#39;m kidding. 

It seems that you have a really, really strong need for closure -- almost as if you&#39;re ready to accept whatever consequence he gives you, resuming or terminating the friendship.  And if it makes you feel better, I don&#39;t know what I would have done in your shoes either.  It&#39;s really hard to track a friend sending out mixed signals of the sexual kind, and your friend is just as responsible for his own behavior as you are for yours.  After all, grinding his crotch up against your hand isn&#39;t exactly a "Hey, bro&#33;" handshake, now is it?

Scrap the communication devices and just go up to him in person.  He can&#39;t dodge you if you&#39;re face to face.  And like Headbang said, be absolutely, positively honest about your feelings -- both in your sincerity of apology for putting your hand in his pants and telling him that you need to know if you two can still remain friends.

[post=316514]Quoted post[/post]​

I whole heartdly agree with what DeeBlackthorne said. There&#39;s no other way to close this ( or unclose it) without going directly to him. The worse that could happen is that you&#39;ll lose the friendship. You will definatly meet this outcome if you simply did nothing at all and avoided it.

 

[Pene_Negro_Grande]

I think Dee provided some great advice...Hope every thing works out at the cookout...Good luck...

 

[jonb]

Depends, is he fuckable?

Seriously, you shouldn&#39;t have had your hand there. Technically, what you did is date rape.

 

[viking]

Originally posted by jonb@May 31 2005, 01:12 PM
Depends, is he fuckable?

Seriously, you shouldn&#39;t have had your hand there. Technically, what you did is date rape.

[post=316586]Quoted post[/post]​

Main Entry: sexual assault
Function: noun
: illegal sexual contact that usually involves force upon a person without consent or is inflicted upon a person who is incapable of giving consent (as because of age or physical or mental incapacity) or who places the assailant (as a doctor) in a position of trust or authority

I&#39;m certain this was not rape.
Not so sure if it was assault.
Was it illegal?
Was it forced?

For sure it was a grope, which can be unwanted.
But it was between friends and he stopped when he percieved that his friend
was not interested.

The same thing happened to me once.

I was staying over at a friends appartment in college.
He groped me in the night, pretending to be asleep.
I left in the morning and never spoke to him again.
I was young and did not know how to respond.
It suddenly became clear that he had a huge crush on me and
I was clueless. I wish I knew then....

I might have said, Hey, not so fast cowboy,
I&#39;m not into that.

End of story.

But hindsight is 50/50.

 

[B_HungSpermBoy]

What&#39;s totally amazing to me is that our sex drives are so strong that we&#39;re willing to do almost anything to satisfy them. I&#39;m not saying anything bad about Chrisj who did this because I&#39;ve been in situations with girls where I could have done the same thing, but I didn&#39;t. But the thing is I WANTED TO REALLY BAD.