See how much your tax cut would be from Obama...

[Phil Ayesho]

If you think ANY of us are getting thru this financial disaster without PAYING for it you are dumber than dumb.


I hope ALL you conservatives can finally see that Bush's tax cuts were the same as these irresponsible deferred interest loans that crashed this economy.

You now get to pay EVEN MORE to fix the fact that republicans ran this country on credit.

What I DON'T want is McCain's plans to FURTHER REDUCE the taxes on the wealthy.

Obama's tax plan will reduce the richest 2%'s after tax income by 4%.
McCain's will INCREASE their after tax income by 15%

In a time like this--- with this disaster sitting firmly on the shoulders of the wealthiest, and greediest Americans...

Ask yourself... do they DESERVE to pay 15% less than they were under BUSH?

Or 4% more?

Time for the profit mongering fuck who made this mess to CHIP IN to the clean up in proportion to their responsibility for this mess..

 

[stratedude]

This is just an attempt to buy votes. The only way this can work is to either tax the ever loving hell out of the very people who would otherwise drive the economy, forcing them to either grow their big business with tax deductions, or launder their money overseas, or raise taxes heavily in other places that may bring the economy to a grinding halt.

I guess Obama and Biden don't expect any of us to be "patriotic" and pay (hardly) any taxes. I guess it's time for all the rich retirees to move to Florida where they have no income tax.

 

[stratedude]

I end up paying more taxes according to the number cruncher. But I'd be more than happy to pay more taxes in the USA. But only if we received national health care, improved/upgraded physical infrastructure (roads, bridges, national parks, etc.), an increase in salaries for teachers with a proven track record of successful teaching, and a state-wide transportation system (think rapid speed trains) that worked. There's other stuff, too. But the Republican fantasy of unregulated free markets has led to giving us the worst possible parts of socialism without any of the positive benefits. Land of the Free my ass! George W. Bush owes me 700 billion dollars!

THINK about it man!

Your extra taxes will only make up for the taxcuts of the middle class and poor. In other words, the total tax revenue would not necessarily be more. It is simply a Robin Hood tax system, i.e. communism. Better join the rest of the rich and hire a good accountant to hide your stash while the economy crumbles.

 

[lucky8]

This is just an attempt to buy votes. The only way this can work is to either tax the ever loving hell out of the very people who would otherwise drive the economy, forcing them to either grow their big business with tax deductions, or launder their money overseas, or raise taxes heavily in other places that may bring the economy to a grinding halt.

I guess Obama and Biden don't expect any of us to be "patriotic" and pay (hardly) any taxes. I guess it's time for all the rich retirees to move to Florida where they have no income tax.

Patriotic? It's unpatriotic for the rich to pay a smaller percentage of taxes than the poor, especially in a time when the country needs that money! Here's an idea: instead of taking extra money from people who actually have to live off of their fixed income, take it from those who have copius amounts of disposable income, and dispose of it on saving the fucking country. Now that would be patriotic.

 

[vindicator]

This is just an attempt to buy votes. The only way this can work is to either tax the ever loving hell out of the very people who would otherwise drive the economy, forcing them to either grow their big business with tax deductions, or launder their money overseas, or raise taxes heavily in other places that may bring the economy to a grinding halt.

I guess Obama and Biden don't expect any of us to be "patriotic" and pay (hardly) any taxes. I guess it's time for all the rich retirees to move to Florida where they have no income tax.

Sorry dude, but the trickle down theory you are talking about have been proven to be bullshit. It has never worked in actuality. Look at Clinton. He raised taxes on business and high income earners, and we had the longest economic expansion ever recorded. What you're saying simply doesn't happen when taxes are raised on the rich and large business. We know that because we have factual data to back it up.

The fact is, the economy over the last 50 years has done better under Democratic administrations then Republican. When Democrats are in power, nearly everyone does better, including business who pay more.

The numbers don't lie: Democrats are better for the economy than Republicans. - By Michael Kinsley - Slate Magazine

Why is this you might ask? The opposite of tickle down theory which states if taxes are cut on business and high income earners, they will in turn hire more people and the economy will grow. Since we know that Democratic economic policies do better, the answer must be tickle up theory.

Trickle up effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Republicans theory is that business is the driving force behind the economy and that if business has more money, eventually it will make its way to the little people... the middle class... when in actuality it is not business who drives the economy, it is consumers who SUPPORT business by buying its products. The more money the average person has, the more they will spend and the more sales and profits business will make. So for business, the effect cancels out the higher taxes they would pay. This is EXACTLY what happened under Clinton, which we can back up by data.

We saw the opposite happen under Republican administrations who implemented trickle down economics. The problem with trickle down is that it consolidates money and power in the hands of the people at the top which is proportionate to the average American... ie the middle class. That is not good for normal Americans and is certainly not in the vast majority of people's best interest. Look where we are today.

I don't know about you, but I believe that America is built by the middle class who are the ones who work day in and day out to make ends meet. They're the ones who government is supposed to work for. They are the ones who should be getting the tax breaks.

 

[D_Davy_Downspout]

If you had $100 Billion to give to the economy, should you:

A) Invest it in business
B) Give it to the people


If you said A), you don't understand business. Any business that has a business plan showing profit potential greater than the interest rate can get funding to grow. Our economy is demand driven, and giving money to a bunch of consumers will grow business more than increasing liquidity.

Increasing disposable income for a tax bracket that already has huge amounts of it will not change their spending habits one bit.



It's amazing that the Republicans have managed to convince people who are not rich to argue in favor of making rich people richer. And if you call that communism, then I can objectively say you have no idea what communism is.

 

[Ericsson1228d]

If I were a welfare case, waiting for a dole-out from the governmental tit, I would vote for Obama for sure.


Universal health care??? Anyone been to the DMV lately? You want to go to a place like that if you need medical treatment?


No thanks!

 

[B_Nick4444]

it says I'd get a bigger cut under McCain

whom should I vote for?

 

[D_Davy_Downspout]

If I were a welfare case, waiting for a dole-out from the governmental tit, I would vote for Obama for sure.


Universal health care??? Anyone been to the DMV lately? You want to go to a place like that if you need medical treatment?


No thanks!

This is a terrible argument you apparently didn't think through.

You think people are going to the DMV for healthcare? They go to hospitals.

 

[mindseye]

it says I'd get a bigger cut under McCain

whom should I vote for?

At $250,000 a year, why not buy a vote for both of them?

 

[Phil Ayesho]

The calculator is a fraud.
Republican propaganda.


McCain states he will borrow more, spend more and tax less.

After $1 trillion dollars in bailout ( don't forget the previous 3!)'


The man is an idiot- Folks- when YOU deficit spend sooner or later the pigeons come home to roost..

And we are looking at 1 trillion really fat pigeons being kept in the air...

The ONLY people who take the brunt of this are the middle class taxpayers.

Don't be fooled by tax cuts we can't afford- you will pay ALL that money, sooner or later, with interest.

The greatest generation FUNDED their war-
THose great citizens did not balk at paying the higher taxes their country needed to win .

And they voluntarily paid even more thru buying war bonds.


I am sick of all these self centered fucks who want their nation to wage TWO wars overseas but can not be inconvienced by paying taxes to support that agenda.


You want to talk personal responsibility? How about showing the civic responsibility to FUND the Fighting you Endorse?

Fucking conservative Hypocrites...

 

[B_VinylBoy]

THINK about it man!

Your extra taxes will only make up for the taxcuts of the middle class and poor. In other words, the total tax revenue would not necessarily be more. It is simply a Robin Hood tax system, i.e. communism. Better join the rest of the rich and hire a good accountant to hide your stash while the economy crumbles.

And with a trickle down economy, there's never room for new members.

The middle class & the poor make up the majority of those struggling in America. The upper tier have most of the wealth (which is different than merely being rich) and the increase would be so minor they would still maintain themselves as the wealthiest people in our country, along with any excesses and "way of life" scenarios they want. More than 85% of the people living on this planet to strive for the American Dream make less than $250K a year and I'm certain there's more people who are well under the 6 figure mark considering the average for most families is barely above $40K. Instead of complaining, why not do some actual math to see what people are talking about? I'm sure your computer has a calculator on it. Unless you're in the upper tier yourself, how could you even consider that a reasonable tax cut that directly helps the bulk of American people is a bad thing?

Ericsson1228d: The whole argument about Democrats or the poor as being "welfare leeches" is severely antiquated. Stop watching daytime talk shows and/or Fox News and find out what the hard working are really doing to survive.

 

[uniqueusername]

Sorry dude, but the trickle down theory you are talking about have been proven to be bullshit. It has never worked in actuality. Look at Clinton. He raised taxes on business and high income earners, and we had the longest economic expansion ever recorded. What you're saying simply doesn't happen when taxes are raised on the rich and large business. We know that because we have factual data to back it up.

The fact is, the economy over the last 50 years has done better under Democratic administrations then Republican. When Democrats are in power, nearly everyone does better, including business who pay more.

The numbers don't lie: Democrats are better for the economy than Republicans. - By Michael Kinsley - Slate Magazine

Why is this you might ask? The opposite of tickle down theory which states if taxes are cut on business and high income earners, they will in turn hire more people and the economy will grow. Since we know that Democratic economic policies do better, the answer must be tickle up theory.

Trickle up effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Republicans theory is that business is the driving force behind the economy and that if business has more money, eventually it will make its way to the little people... the middle class... when in actuality it is not business who drives the economy, it is consumers who SUPPORT business by buying its products. The more money the average person has, the more they will spend and the more sales and profits business will make. So for business, the effect cancels out the higher taxes they would pay. This is EXACTLY what happened under Clinton, which we can back up by data.

We saw the opposite happen under Republican administrations who implemented trickle down economics. The problem with trickle down is that it consolidates money and power in the hands of the people at the top which is proportionate to the average American... ie the middle class. That is not good for normal Americans and is certainly not in the vast majority of people's best interest. Look where we are today.

I don't know about you, but I believe that America is built by the middle class who are the ones who work day in and day out to make ends meet. They're the ones who government is supposed to work for. They are the ones who should be getting the tax breaks.

I guess I'd have to ask you then: When was the last time you got a job from someone in the middle class?

 

[B_VinylBoy]

I guess I'd have to ask you then: When was the last time you got a job from someone in the middle class?

That question makes absolutely no sense.
Common logic applies here. The people on the top of the corporate ladders who make all the money would not be giving anyone a job. Logically, they would try to cut them because if they could get their existing base to work twice as hard for lesser pay they'd do it.

Hence why so many jobs were outsourced overseas to begin with. At the height of the outsourcing craze, workers in the USA requires spending more money in salaries. Whereas the people in countries like India opted to do the same work for a lot less. It also helped that our dollar was much stronger back then. Therefore, salaries for these workers could be even cheaper on US standards, but be perfect for sustaining a way of live abroad. It's almost like hiring the illegal aliens to do gardening work for minimum wage, except you don't have to deal with the nasty border crossing issues.

Besides, when I was hired to any job I never talked to a CEO. I always talked to people who are in HR who make middle class salaries. So yes, in a way we all get our jobs from the middle class if you REALLY want to be anal about things. I'm not so sure what types of jobs you're applying for which allow you to talk directly to billionaires. At least on the entry level that is. Care to share any secrets about how to bypass the first steps and go directly to the top, for 85% of the nation would love to know how to do it!

(There's a LOT of sarcasm in this last paragraph, so watch yourself...)

 

[Phil Ayesho]

I guess I'd have to ask you then: When was the last time you got a job from someone in the middle class?

Well- let's see.

EVERY job I ever had I got from someone in the middle class.

AND- I have been self employed, on and off, for most of my life... and I am middle class.

And this year I hired 3 employees...
So all three of them got at least 1 job from someone who is middle class.

In fact... of the people I know... the vast majority work for small businesses owned by middle class people.

I know almost no one who works for someone in the top 2% income bracket.

 

[Qua]

Given that I make less than $10000 per year as a lay college asshole...

$13.74 vs $757.40

Figure made me laugh in its disparity.

 

[D_Chocho_Lippz]

Seriously, why do you people pay taxes anyways?

Read the law, it doesn't say you have to...

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Seriously, why do you people pay taxes anyways?

Read the law, it doesn't say you have to...

Even if they don't catch up with you now, they'll do it eventually. Just ask Al Capone & Leona Helmsley. That is, unless, you plan to do all your work on the side and get paid in cash for the rest of your life, storing all of your funds in a sock or a mattress. Even then, if you have a Social Security Number, doing that for an extensive period of time would send them a red flag.

Taxes. It's probably one of the only "unavoidable" laws that the nation does enforce.

 

[deleted213967]

Seriously, why do you people pay taxes anyways?

Read the law, it doesn't say you have to...

So that's all you get all the money to fund your high-end underwear fetish! :biggrin1:

 

[AllHazzardi]

If I were a welfare case, waiting for a dole-out from the governmental tit, I would vote for Obama for sure.


Universal health care??? Anyone been to the DMV lately? You want to go to a place like that if you need medical treatment?


No thanks!

This is a terrible argument you apparently didn't think through.

You think people are going to the DMV for healthcare? They go to hospitals.

Okay... but the original post was saying the DMV is a publicly available and provided service, and is incredibly congested at any given moment. Then went on to say that with Universal Health Care, Hospitals would become like the DMV in congestion...