jerkin4-10: pecker...nice...well thought out comments that i think made us all stop and pause about the things that are really important...the things inside a man...not what dangles from his loins...i grew up alot like you my friend...except my mom made me my clothes...pants included...my father, while college educated and quite talented...chose a career in the YMCA to make a difference in young mens lives...councelling and developing programs to keep youth off the streets...people...the YMCA doesnt pay much...but i guess i didnt really know the difference til jr high when all my friends started wearing Levis and we just couldnt afford them...my parents chose home-ownership instead, putting my brother and i in a better school district in an area that was rife with drugs...i watched my dad go to work many days throwing up and with the runs...he wanted to be there for the kids...looking back at that time...i see that he not only gave of himself and helped all these other kids...he was teaching me as well....by example...much more than JUST words...alot of people out there just need acknolwledgment...a simple 'hi' will suffice in alot of cases...
my apologies for rambling
my apologies for rambling
rainfletcher: It's been difficult to find time to respond to this, but I've got a few minutes now.
As I write this, I'm sure light-bulbs will go off in the heads of many of you...I'm sure there's book waiting to be written about this (not about me, but about this in general).
I cannot believe I'm sharing this with you all, but this is a support group, right?
When I was 4, my mother was injured during surgery and 'bled out' a few times over. Her blood-chemistry was never the same (still isnt'), and she was in and out of mental institutions while they tried to get it right. During this time, my father worked several jobs trying to pay the bills, which left no one at home, really. My little brother was a baby, so he spent time at the sitters, but my sister and I were left to fend for ourselves much of the time.
I remember settting the alarm clock, and getting my 3 year old sister breakfast (all I knew how to make was toast, cereal and peanut butter and jelly) and then going off to kindergarten and later, elementary school.
Even when my mother was home, she was in her room, semi-catatonic.
She started pulling out of everything when I was late in elementary school, but my dad was till never around.
So, no, there was no support or guidance for me growing up. No one provided security or support. I was literally on my own from the age of 4, and providing for my sister at the age of 5. I think my parents cared, but were unable to do much to show me. My mom was on so many drugs, and my dad just wasn't around...
Even though I may have been financially better off....
I cannot help but think I was so much poorer than Pecker....whom I am beginning to recognize as an exceedingly wealthy, and wise, man.
When your giving out seats around the fire, Pecker, make sure I'm invited?
As I write this, I'm sure light-bulbs will go off in the heads of many of you...I'm sure there's book waiting to be written about this (not about me, but about this in general).
I cannot believe I'm sharing this with you all, but this is a support group, right?
When I was 4, my mother was injured during surgery and 'bled out' a few times over. Her blood-chemistry was never the same (still isnt'), and she was in and out of mental institutions while they tried to get it right. During this time, my father worked several jobs trying to pay the bills, which left no one at home, really. My little brother was a baby, so he spent time at the sitters, but my sister and I were left to fend for ourselves much of the time.
I remember settting the alarm clock, and getting my 3 year old sister breakfast (all I knew how to make was toast, cereal and peanut butter and jelly) and then going off to kindergarten and later, elementary school.
Even when my mother was home, she was in her room, semi-catatonic.
She started pulling out of everything when I was late in elementary school, but my dad was till never around.
So, no, there was no support or guidance for me growing up. No one provided security or support. I was literally on my own from the age of 4, and providing for my sister at the age of 5. I think my parents cared, but were unable to do much to show me. My mom was on so many drugs, and my dad just wasn't around...
Even though I may have been financially better off....
I cannot help but think I was so much poorer than Pecker....whom I am beginning to recognize as an exceedingly wealthy, and wise, man.
When your giving out seats around the fire, Pecker, make sure I'm invited?
throb919: Pecker--Thanks for sharing that. It'd be an easy cross-post to the "Philosophy" thread. All your fun and funny country song tags aside, that post was beautifully scored by Dolly Parton's "Coat of Many Colors"...
ORCABOMBER: I'm sorry man. I aint going to start going on about finding help or books or anything like that, but thank you for sharing that, it's very brave, believe me. Then again, so were/are you.
7x6andchg: Pecker -
Your post made me remember the cliche (still can't do those accents, DMW): Do not judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes.
Each of us here brings our own trials, tribulations, and triumphs. Pecker was brave enough and nice enough to share some of his with us. For that, I commend him and am glad to say that I know him. For THAT takes REAL balls.
As Hapi pointed out in his post - so often we let one single "bad" thing ruin our day, our week, our life. As a race, I think we need to realize that each day we manage to get up and actually struggle against whatever life puts against us is better than a day spent giving in to life. Either of which is still preferable to a day spent 6' under.
Just my opinion....as you were, gentlemen (and ladies)...
7x6&C
Your post made me remember the cliche (still can't do those accents, DMW): Do not judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes.
Each of us here brings our own trials, tribulations, and triumphs. Pecker was brave enough and nice enough to share some of his with us. For that, I commend him and am glad to say that I know him. For THAT takes REAL balls.
As Hapi pointed out in his post - so often we let one single "bad" thing ruin our day, our week, our life. As a race, I think we need to realize that each day we manage to get up and actually struggle against whatever life puts against us is better than a day spent giving in to life. Either of which is still preferable to a day spent 6' under.
Just my opinion....as you were, gentlemen (and ladies)...
7x6&C
prepstudinsc: Pecker--that story was beautiful. That is the epitome of what worth is. The size of a schlong doesn't really matter a dime. It's what is inside that counts....the love and support of a family can't be bought. So many people confuse material possesions with self-worth. No amount of possesions will or can make anyone a better person. In today's society, values are so screwed up that people think the more they have the better they are. Well, Pecker has proved otherwise. I think we all need to take a look at our lives and put things back into their proper order. Trust me, I'm a funeral director...life is fleeting and so are material things. We all need to focus on what is important......
headbang8: [quote author=Rain link=board=meetgreet;num=1065978028;start=20#22 date=10/13/03 at 19:41:00]It's been difficult to find time to respond to this, but I've got a few minutes now.
As I write this, I'm sure light-bulbs will go off in the heads of many of you...I'm sure there's book waiting to be written about this (not about me, but about this in general).
[/quote]
Well, Rain, a light bulb certainly went off in my head when I saw your earlier post. Many thanks for sharing so candidly on a tough personal issue.
True, a book could be written. A number have been, and I feel like I'm Exhibit A in every one!
The inability to take pride in one's achievements (or even find much joy in anything) is a classic symptom of childhood abuse or neglect.
I took a different road to the same destination.
My family was pretty much standard-issue, run-of-the-mill abusive. My father's father was a violent drunk; my own father hit less but yelled more, and said we should be grateful for it. More mature and self-aware than either my father or grandfather, I don't beat anybody up. Except myself, of course.
A perfect texbook case, apparently.
OK, what to do about it? Prepstudinsc rightly observed that you can't buy the love and support of a family. If you can't buy it, and it wasn't given to you, then where do you get it?
You don't get it directly from shrinks, psychologists or counsellors. Even though they're excellent guides on the journey, and I urge anyone in our position to seek their help. They prove specially useful in avoiding the black dog of depression, a real physical risk for people with abusive or neglectful parents--one which we should take care to prevent if we can. But medicine won't do the hard work of healing for you.
If one learns self-worth from the experience of loving and being loved...well, IMHO, you have to go out and damn well find the experience. After I overcame my initial reluctance to enter any relationship at all, I spent much of my life in a string of failed unions where I was clumsy at giving and receiving love. But each taught me a few more emotional skills (so I guess they weren't failures, really).
It's kind of unfair to ask your loved ones to carry the burden of turning you into a normal human being. Luckily, I've been loved by men and women who showed generosity and patience, even when I hurt them through my fucked-up behaviour. I owe them a lot. Especially my current man, god bless him!
(It sounds awful to refer to him as "current", doesn't it? What does one say? "Permanent"? "Final"? "Ultimate"? Anyway, you get the idea.)
This thread drives home a point. A loving family really empowers you to be a strong adult. Many of the men who have posted here take that strength for granted--and so they should.
People with our backgrounds, Rain, really need to work on building that strength from the small base we start with. Seldom can we do it alone. The best thing I ever did was seek help. I should have sought it much earlier in life--one thing the experts agree is that your perspective doesn't improve as you get older. In fact, it gets worse if left unchecked. It didn't surprise me to read somewhere that most male suicides are in their fifties.
Again, thanks for a courageous post. Men resist talking about a bad childhood because it sounds like a play for sympathy, or just a whine. (I hate to recount my childhood 'cos I'm too chicken to face the pain.) But you need to tell it, and we need to hear it.
And thanks to everyone else for sharing your strength and optimism, too. You're all great.
As I write this, I'm sure light-bulbs will go off in the heads of many of you...I'm sure there's book waiting to be written about this (not about me, but about this in general).
[/quote]
Well, Rain, a light bulb certainly went off in my head when I saw your earlier post. Many thanks for sharing so candidly on a tough personal issue.
True, a book could be written. A number have been, and I feel like I'm Exhibit A in every one!
The inability to take pride in one's achievements (or even find much joy in anything) is a classic symptom of childhood abuse or neglect.
I took a different road to the same destination.
My family was pretty much standard-issue, run-of-the-mill abusive. My father's father was a violent drunk; my own father hit less but yelled more, and said we should be grateful for it. More mature and self-aware than either my father or grandfather, I don't beat anybody up. Except myself, of course.
A perfect texbook case, apparently.
OK, what to do about it? Prepstudinsc rightly observed that you can't buy the love and support of a family. If you can't buy it, and it wasn't given to you, then where do you get it?
You don't get it directly from shrinks, psychologists or counsellors. Even though they're excellent guides on the journey, and I urge anyone in our position to seek their help. They prove specially useful in avoiding the black dog of depression, a real physical risk for people with abusive or neglectful parents--one which we should take care to prevent if we can. But medicine won't do the hard work of healing for you.
If one learns self-worth from the experience of loving and being loved...well, IMHO, you have to go out and damn well find the experience. After I overcame my initial reluctance to enter any relationship at all, I spent much of my life in a string of failed unions where I was clumsy at giving and receiving love. But each taught me a few more emotional skills (so I guess they weren't failures, really).
It's kind of unfair to ask your loved ones to carry the burden of turning you into a normal human being. Luckily, I've been loved by men and women who showed generosity and patience, even when I hurt them through my fucked-up behaviour. I owe them a lot. Especially my current man, god bless him!
(It sounds awful to refer to him as "current", doesn't it? What does one say? "Permanent"? "Final"? "Ultimate"? Anyway, you get the idea.)
This thread drives home a point. A loving family really empowers you to be a strong adult. Many of the men who have posted here take that strength for granted--and so they should.
People with our backgrounds, Rain, really need to work on building that strength from the small base we start with. Seldom can we do it alone. The best thing I ever did was seek help. I should have sought it much earlier in life--one thing the experts agree is that your perspective doesn't improve as you get older. In fact, it gets worse if left unchecked. It didn't surprise me to read somewhere that most male suicides are in their fifties.
Again, thanks for a courageous post. Men resist talking about a bad childhood because it sounds like a play for sympathy, or just a whine. (I hate to recount my childhood 'cos I'm too chicken to face the pain.) But you need to tell it, and we need to hear it.
And thanks to everyone else for sharing your strength and optimism, too. You're all great.
View_From_Below: [quote author=headbang8 link=board=meetgreet;num=1065978028;start=0#11 date=10/13/03 at 00:29:41]
Fact: You learn self-worth as a child, from your experience of being loved. [/quote]
Thank you, headbang8. Thank you, Rain. You both (and Pecker with his very different experience of surmounting adversity through love) have brought this thread to a level of honesty and trust that is really astonishing. I for one am very grateful for what you have shared--I think those of us who have come out of those kinds of childhood experiences always have the emotional conviction (regardless of what rational analysis might tell us) that we are the only ones so screwed up--and moreover that it is somehow our fault. It is so strengthening to be in touch with others.
ACoA? You bet. Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. Mean, cold, abusive drunk father, and distant, weak, passive drunk mother. A very screwed up family. Childhood was about survival, not flourishing. And you're right, men are pressured not to talk about it--suck it up, get over it, be an iron man, talking about it is self-pitying, all that. But headbang, you haven't fixed it yet, at 46; Rain, you haven't fixed it yet, at...30+?; I haven't fixed it yet, at 53. All of us, despite incredibly hard work, the help of loving spouses or partners, and with REAL progress to be proud of--haven't fixed it yet. It doesn't fix easily. When you start working on self worth as an adult, achieving it takes huge effort.
This thread started out asking about large size and self worth. I will take a risk here and give you a slightly different twist on that. In my fantasies of how I would get out of my childhood life-situation, I couldn't wait for puberty--it would make me a "man," it would symbolize my impending adulthood, my passport to eventual freedom. I had an awful lot wrapped up in the expectation and symbolism of a "real man," genitally speaking. It was therefore really crushing for me when puberty produced... a very modest endowment. What did it mean?? To this young teenager, with no support system whatever to provide any counterbalancing validation, an unimpressive penis just confirmed that the sense of lack of worth that I had been living with-- was actually true, and deserved. So self worth and penis size did have a very real connection for me--but not in the way the original poster meant. And that size/worth connection from childhood dreams is still in my deepest mind, in the dark of the night.
I have fought hard to create myself, and achieved a lot--a loving stable relationship, a great family, professional success, all that. But self worth? Let's say...continuing to make progress. It has been a LONG time and a lot of work. I know there are miles to go before I sleep. But I intend to get there.
Thanks again to Rain and headbang--for opening up a real level of honesty about this. I never thought I would be moved to say on this forum -- where I am always aware of, shall we say, not meeting the "entrance requirements" -- what I've said here!
Fact: You learn self-worth as a child, from your experience of being loved. [/quote]
Thank you, headbang8. Thank you, Rain. You both (and Pecker with his very different experience of surmounting adversity through love) have brought this thread to a level of honesty and trust that is really astonishing. I for one am very grateful for what you have shared--I think those of us who have come out of those kinds of childhood experiences always have the emotional conviction (regardless of what rational analysis might tell us) that we are the only ones so screwed up--and moreover that it is somehow our fault. It is so strengthening to be in touch with others.
ACoA? You bet. Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. Mean, cold, abusive drunk father, and distant, weak, passive drunk mother. A very screwed up family. Childhood was about survival, not flourishing. And you're right, men are pressured not to talk about it--suck it up, get over it, be an iron man, talking about it is self-pitying, all that. But headbang, you haven't fixed it yet, at 46; Rain, you haven't fixed it yet, at...30+?; I haven't fixed it yet, at 53. All of us, despite incredibly hard work, the help of loving spouses or partners, and with REAL progress to be proud of--haven't fixed it yet. It doesn't fix easily. When you start working on self worth as an adult, achieving it takes huge effort.
This thread started out asking about large size and self worth. I will take a risk here and give you a slightly different twist on that. In my fantasies of how I would get out of my childhood life-situation, I couldn't wait for puberty--it would make me a "man," it would symbolize my impending adulthood, my passport to eventual freedom. I had an awful lot wrapped up in the expectation and symbolism of a "real man," genitally speaking. It was therefore really crushing for me when puberty produced... a very modest endowment. What did it mean?? To this young teenager, with no support system whatever to provide any counterbalancing validation, an unimpressive penis just confirmed that the sense of lack of worth that I had been living with-- was actually true, and deserved. So self worth and penis size did have a very real connection for me--but not in the way the original poster meant. And that size/worth connection from childhood dreams is still in my deepest mind, in the dark of the night.
I have fought hard to create myself, and achieved a lot--a loving stable relationship, a great family, professional success, all that. But self worth? Let's say...continuing to make progress. It has been a LONG time and a lot of work. I know there are miles to go before I sleep. But I intend to get there.
Thanks again to Rain and headbang--for opening up a real level of honesty about this. I never thought I would be moved to say on this forum -- where I am always aware of, shall we say, not meeting the "entrance requirements" -- what I've said here!
View, isn't it amazing how much those events which we have absolutely no control over seem to affect our lives?
I learned early on to block them out. But I found later that it left a black hole in a corner of my psyche that throbs like a living thing, sometimes larger and taking up too much of my life, sometimes smaller and almost forgotten.
All I can do to make sense of it and to keep it from dominating my happiness is to forgive it. I've forgiven a drunken, violent father, who is now dead but whom I look forward to seeing again in the next life. I've forgiven the abject poverty of my youth, for it made me who I am. I've forgiven the abusive ex-spouse who's now more of a friend than she was a wife.
Don't mistake me for a bleeding heart who forgives everything, View. But my life is happier for that little I have been able to control.
Pecker
(I've just returned from Chicago. It's the only thing to do if you find yourself there.)
I learned early on to block them out. But I found later that it left a black hole in a corner of my psyche that throbs like a living thing, sometimes larger and taking up too much of my life, sometimes smaller and almost forgotten.
All I can do to make sense of it and to keep it from dominating my happiness is to forgive it. I've forgiven a drunken, violent father, who is now dead but whom I look forward to seeing again in the next life. I've forgiven the abject poverty of my youth, for it made me who I am. I've forgiven the abusive ex-spouse who's now more of a friend than she was a wife.
Don't mistake me for a bleeding heart who forgives everything, View. But my life is happier for that little I have been able to control.
Pecker
(I've just returned from Chicago. It's the only thing to do if you find yourself there.)
headbang8: [quote author=View_From_Below link=board=meetgreet;num=1065978028;start=20#28 date=10/15/03 at 20:46:11]
Thanks again to Rain and headbang--for opening up a real level of honesty about this. [/quote]
I hope we haven't hijacked the thread completely,VFB! The issue is compelling to those of us who lived through it. But it can prove an major-league downer for those who haven't. Kinda kills the conversation at a dinner party when two guests start comparing the scars from leather straps or cigarette burns.
Still, it helps answer Inwood's question: where does your self-worth come from, and what makes you who you are?
Most of the posters here instictively looked to their families--DMW, jerkin4-10, norseman, joe22xxx, and of course, Pecker. Inwood himself comments that the boys must have been "raised right". We've given him the same answer from a different point of view, maybe.
For obvious reasons, I'd love to hear more about being "raised right". When board members think about the values they learned from their parents, what did they do to teach you about real human worth--either through instruction or by example? What inspires you about them? What makes you proud of them, and by extension, proud of who you are?
(I bet Pecker has several dozen more stories he could share. )
On the other hand, while we want to bask in the glow of life's silver linings, I'm sure we haven't fully thrashed out the cloud, yet. Let's continue that discussion, too.
Take care of yourself, VFB. You brave guy. And thanks to Inwood for raising the question in the first place.
Thanks again to Rain and headbang--for opening up a real level of honesty about this. [/quote]
I hope we haven't hijacked the thread completely,VFB! The issue is compelling to those of us who lived through it. But it can prove an major-league downer for those who haven't. Kinda kills the conversation at a dinner party when two guests start comparing the scars from leather straps or cigarette burns.
Still, it helps answer Inwood's question: where does your self-worth come from, and what makes you who you are?
Most of the posters here instictively looked to their families--DMW, jerkin4-10, norseman, joe22xxx, and of course, Pecker. Inwood himself comments that the boys must have been "raised right". We've given him the same answer from a different point of view, maybe.
For obvious reasons, I'd love to hear more about being "raised right". When board members think about the values they learned from their parents, what did they do to teach you about real human worth--either through instruction or by example? What inspires you about them? What makes you proud of them, and by extension, proud of who you are?
(I bet Pecker has several dozen more stories he could share. )
On the other hand, while we want to bask in the glow of life's silver linings, I'm sure we haven't fully thrashed out the cloud, yet. Let's continue that discussion, too.
Take care of yourself, VFB. You brave guy. And thanks to Inwood for raising the question in the first place.
Tender: For obvious reasons, I'd love to hear more about being "raised right"
i sort of wonder if there is anyone here who feels they *were* raised 'right'?
i mean does *anyone* feel they were raised right, and what is "right"?
no, i wasnt beaten, neither of my parents were alcoholics, ect....
but alas i have some serious bad memories in a way, of things gone wrong,
and well i dont feel i was raised right.
not given the support i needed, perhaps just felt misunderstood most of the time or felt as a by stander....
not sure.
but it begs the question.....
what is the ideal raising and how can a human parent raise a child in the 'right' way? it has occured to me that EVERY parent looks back and says "ah, i do wish i had done *that* differently."
ya know?
so how do we raise our children to avoid them one day feeling a low self worth?
i sort of wonder if there is anyone here who feels they *were* raised 'right'?
i mean does *anyone* feel they were raised right, and what is "right"?
no, i wasnt beaten, neither of my parents were alcoholics, ect....
but alas i have some serious bad memories in a way, of things gone wrong,
and well i dont feel i was raised right.
not given the support i needed, perhaps just felt misunderstood most of the time or felt as a by stander....
not sure.
but it begs the question.....
what is the ideal raising and how can a human parent raise a child in the 'right' way? it has occured to me that EVERY parent looks back and says "ah, i do wish i had done *that* differently."
ya know?
so how do we raise our children to avoid them one day feeling a low self worth?
headbang8: [quote author=Pecker link=board=meetgreet;num=1065978028;start=20#29 date=10/16/03 at 05:21:04]
I learned early on to block them out. But I found later that it left a black hole in a corner of my psyche that throbs like a living thing, sometimes larger and taking up too much of my life, sometimes smaller and almost forgotten.
All I can do to make sense of it and to keep it from dominating my happiness is to forgive it. I've forgiven a drunken, violent father, who is now dead but whom I look forward to seeing again in the next life. I've forgiven the abject poverty of my youth, for it made me who I am. I've forgiven the abusive ex-spouse who's now more of a friend than she was a wife.
Don't mistake me for a bleeding heart who forgives everything, View. But my life is happier for that little I have been able to control. [/quote]
As always, Pecker, a valuable perspective. The throbbing hole will devour everything if you don't plug it.
Do you think the moral strength of your mother, uncle and cousins helped you forgive your father? I really believe you were fantastically lucky in that respect.
For me, it's taken a hell of a lot of work to forgive my father--shouting at his grave, long talks with his brothers, even prayer when I still believed. I think I've just about managed it--at least as far as I want to go. For my mother, though, I rehearse the you-bitch-you-ruined-my-life speech every morning in the shower. Gotta work on that one.
You're right when you draw the distinction between a forgiving heart and a bleeding one. My first challenge was to understand that the black hole wasn't of my own making. That I really wasn't to blame for my father's violence and my mother's hysterical anger. And yes, my own anger in response was not necessarily something to feel guilty about, or to suppress. It's legitimate to hold them responsible for what they did.(My sister hasn't taken this first step, and she suffers badly for it.)
You imply that forgiveness gives you back some control. I'd take it even further. Forgiveness is empowering; one always forgives from a position of strength. I struggle to find that strength, as often as not. For some of us, the black hole takes more plugging. And in darker moments, we fall in.
You can't give yourself that strength in an act of will. It takes time, energy and emotional work to create it. Maybe more than I can find in my lifetime.
And, of course, there are the physical symptoms of abuse that no amount of willpower or forgiveness will fix.
Enough of that for the moment. Take care of yourself, Peck.
I learned early on to block them out. But I found later that it left a black hole in a corner of my psyche that throbs like a living thing, sometimes larger and taking up too much of my life, sometimes smaller and almost forgotten.
All I can do to make sense of it and to keep it from dominating my happiness is to forgive it. I've forgiven a drunken, violent father, who is now dead but whom I look forward to seeing again in the next life. I've forgiven the abject poverty of my youth, for it made me who I am. I've forgiven the abusive ex-spouse who's now more of a friend than she was a wife.
Don't mistake me for a bleeding heart who forgives everything, View. But my life is happier for that little I have been able to control. [/quote]
As always, Pecker, a valuable perspective. The throbbing hole will devour everything if you don't plug it.
Do you think the moral strength of your mother, uncle and cousins helped you forgive your father? I really believe you were fantastically lucky in that respect.
For me, it's taken a hell of a lot of work to forgive my father--shouting at his grave, long talks with his brothers, even prayer when I still believed. I think I've just about managed it--at least as far as I want to go. For my mother, though, I rehearse the you-bitch-you-ruined-my-life speech every morning in the shower. Gotta work on that one.
You're right when you draw the distinction between a forgiving heart and a bleeding one. My first challenge was to understand that the black hole wasn't of my own making. That I really wasn't to blame for my father's violence and my mother's hysterical anger. And yes, my own anger in response was not necessarily something to feel guilty about, or to suppress. It's legitimate to hold them responsible for what they did.(My sister hasn't taken this first step, and she suffers badly for it.)
You imply that forgiveness gives you back some control. I'd take it even further. Forgiveness is empowering; one always forgives from a position of strength. I struggle to find that strength, as often as not. For some of us, the black hole takes more plugging. And in darker moments, we fall in.
You can't give yourself that strength in an act of will. It takes time, energy and emotional work to create it. Maybe more than I can find in my lifetime.
And, of course, there are the physical symptoms of abuse that no amount of willpower or forgiveness will fix.
Enough of that for the moment. Take care of yourself, Peck.
Inwood: To headbang8 -- no the thread hasn't been hijacked. If anything it's probably been elevated way beyond anything the initial question tried to explore.
As to why I posed the question to begin with...well without going into deep background let's just say one time I had been congratulated by a friend on seemingly overcoming a very serious situation over which I had no control to begin with. I told my friend that I didn't feel that there was anything to be congratulated on at all because there was nothing I actively did to overcome the problem and he understood my point of view. I guess there just wasn't another way for him to express his happiness about my situation.
Reading various posts about being proud of dick size or the guys are only jealous of your size, etc. I grew curious to ask what some of you really thought about this particular part of your psyche and how it came to be. How had something over which you had no control affected how you thought of yourself. In the initial question the something was a large dick but it could and did become something else that was the difference that affected you.
A couple of posters asked if anyone felt they were raised right. I would say I was. That doesn't mean though that I don't have issues about personal matters; doubts about myself, do people like me, am I attractive, etc. Yes, my parents were kind loving people just like all of my extended family. But even with all of that we still have had divorces, abuse, etc. crop up in my generation. Why I don't know. I turned out fine. Why didn't all of my cousins turn out the same way?
I've been coming to terms with my discomfort with how people react to the physical me. It may seem like a minor matter in comparison to physical or mental abuse but nonetheless it is just as debilitating. One guy I know put it best I think. He said, "You just don't get it, do you. The effect you have on people. If you had self confidence about that you could do so much." And he's right. I don't get it. I think I'm okay looking but I'm always made to feel that I'm something way more and that completely unnerves me and makes me want to just get away from everything. Makes hell of trying to socialize.
So it's somewhat from that perspective that when I read posts like the ones saying people are just jealous of your size, etc. to make someone feel better about a bad situation seemed a self defeating mechanism. It's not addressing how the poster felt. It's making an assumption as to how the attacker felt. It's sort of like having someone not be interested in you and you saying "they're ugly I wasn't interested to begin with." Yeah it seems to help at first but you've still been turned down and you haven't dealt with that feeling.
As I mentioned earlier I've just been blown away by what posts I've seen. Ya'll are dealing with a lot of things that are very difficult. I don't think just because you haven't solved it by now means you aren't dealing with it. It's sort of like how I see my exercise routine. It's always a two-year project from today. The difference I see is you aren't saying "you're ugly I wasn't interested." You've been trying to understand what you've felt and dealing with that. And that's just amazing.
As to why I posed the question to begin with...well without going into deep background let's just say one time I had been congratulated by a friend on seemingly overcoming a very serious situation over which I had no control to begin with. I told my friend that I didn't feel that there was anything to be congratulated on at all because there was nothing I actively did to overcome the problem and he understood my point of view. I guess there just wasn't another way for him to express his happiness about my situation.
Reading various posts about being proud of dick size or the guys are only jealous of your size, etc. I grew curious to ask what some of you really thought about this particular part of your psyche and how it came to be. How had something over which you had no control affected how you thought of yourself. In the initial question the something was a large dick but it could and did become something else that was the difference that affected you.
A couple of posters asked if anyone felt they were raised right. I would say I was. That doesn't mean though that I don't have issues about personal matters; doubts about myself, do people like me, am I attractive, etc. Yes, my parents were kind loving people just like all of my extended family. But even with all of that we still have had divorces, abuse, etc. crop up in my generation. Why I don't know. I turned out fine. Why didn't all of my cousins turn out the same way?
I've been coming to terms with my discomfort with how people react to the physical me. It may seem like a minor matter in comparison to physical or mental abuse but nonetheless it is just as debilitating. One guy I know put it best I think. He said, "You just don't get it, do you. The effect you have on people. If you had self confidence about that you could do so much." And he's right. I don't get it. I think I'm okay looking but I'm always made to feel that I'm something way more and that completely unnerves me and makes me want to just get away from everything. Makes hell of trying to socialize.
So it's somewhat from that perspective that when I read posts like the ones saying people are just jealous of your size, etc. to make someone feel better about a bad situation seemed a self defeating mechanism. It's not addressing how the poster felt. It's making an assumption as to how the attacker felt. It's sort of like having someone not be interested in you and you saying "they're ugly I wasn't interested to begin with." Yeah it seems to help at first but you've still been turned down and you haven't dealt with that feeling.
As I mentioned earlier I've just been blown away by what posts I've seen. Ya'll are dealing with a lot of things that are very difficult. I don't think just because you haven't solved it by now means you aren't dealing with it. It's sort of like how I see my exercise routine. It's always a two-year project from today. The difference I see is you aren't saying "you're ugly I wasn't interested." You've been trying to understand what you've felt and dealing with that. And that's just amazing.
wvalady1968: I've just read all the posts, and all I can say is that I love you all. If I could, I would hold you and rock you and tell you how special each of you are.
Kids get messed up by their parents, who were messed up by THEIR parents. But you all are aware and trying so hard to NOT repeat the same mistakes. I can't imagine how hard that is. But I praise you for your efforts and your successes. You are really great, and I mean that sincerely!
Kids get messed up by their parents, who were messed up by THEIR parents. But you all are aware and trying so hard to NOT repeat the same mistakes. I can't imagine how hard that is. But I praise you for your efforts and your successes. You are really great, and I mean that sincerely!
ORCABOMBER: I'd have to second that, I'm really happy that we as a group are able to share somethings, which to us are unique, personal and a lot more important than just genital size.
Perhaps we all have crosses to carry, perhaps it isn't the weight of the cross, but the strength of the person carrying it, if you're Christian, a Jesus metaphor is a good example I think.
Maybe we need to be able to say to ourselves that despite the grief we've got, that we can pull through and that we are more than what other people think.
We are our own greatest enemies ultimately, other people don't count.
---
I can say that I've been privilidged and lucky in a lot of ways, the grief I've got is mild compared to some of you guys, but at the same time, I have at one time contimplated suicide. Why? Because I felt that my "value to the world" was absolutely nothing.
When you stand back and think how many people would care if you fragged yourself and you selfishly assume it'd be little, you feel as if you have no goals, no reason, no purpose.
I wont start ranting, but to cut a long story short, we all have the strength to move on if we're lacking, and we can and do make a difference to other people.
Oh, and you guys rock, if you're ever around "the east side", I'll buy you a beer.
Perhaps we all have crosses to carry, perhaps it isn't the weight of the cross, but the strength of the person carrying it, if you're Christian, a Jesus metaphor is a good example I think.
Maybe we need to be able to say to ourselves that despite the grief we've got, that we can pull through and that we are more than what other people think.
We are our own greatest enemies ultimately, other people don't count.
---
I can say that I've been privilidged and lucky in a lot of ways, the grief I've got is mild compared to some of you guys, but at the same time, I have at one time contimplated suicide. Why? Because I felt that my "value to the world" was absolutely nothing.
When you stand back and think how many people would care if you fragged yourself and you selfishly assume it'd be little, you feel as if you have no goals, no reason, no purpose.
I wont start ranting, but to cut a long story short, we all have the strength to move on if we're lacking, and we can and do make a difference to other people.
Oh, and you guys rock, if you're ever around "the east side", I'll buy you a beer.
Javierdude22: Being really time constrained sucks as you're not really able to keep track of all the dicussions, especially the cool ones, but it dóes provide great reading when you do follow them.
This has developed into a very cool thread, in most part for it's honesty. I've been amazed by it before but i'll say it again, who knew that this was possible on a site like this? It's takes people with a little more content than average...
This has developed into a very cool thread, in most part for it's honesty. I've been amazed by it before but i'll say it again, who knew that this was possible on a site like this? It's takes people with a little more content than average...
tigerwolf: I dunno. I've been through a lot in my short time on this earth, but I think a lot of the problem I have with my self image and how unhappy I am with myself comes from my modelling and porn, where it is constantly drilled into your head that you must be thin and pretty and hung to be worth anything.
*shrug* I've lived on the streets, come from an abusive family, and pulled myself up, and sure, I feel that I'm worth something, but I still can't help getting depressed over the fact that I don't have a foot long dick. I'm only a few inches short of it, mind you, and I understand that I, and anyone on here who's over 8" is larger than 92-95% of the population, but in a sense, I still feel inadequate. Being on here lately has kind of increased my sense of inadequacy because I'm not as big as a lot of the guys on here, despite being 9".
I don't know really.. I guess old habits die hard, but maybe one day I can PE to a foot or something. I still dont' have much faith that will ever succeed though. I'd be lucky to hit double digits.
Just my two cents. People keep saying they want to get to know the real me behind the attitude I have.. well..there it is..
*shrug* I've lived on the streets, come from an abusive family, and pulled myself up, and sure, I feel that I'm worth something, but I still can't help getting depressed over the fact that I don't have a foot long dick. I'm only a few inches short of it, mind you, and I understand that I, and anyone on here who's over 8" is larger than 92-95% of the population, but in a sense, I still feel inadequate. Being on here lately has kind of increased my sense of inadequacy because I'm not as big as a lot of the guys on here, despite being 9".
I don't know really.. I guess old habits die hard, but maybe one day I can PE to a foot or something. I still dont' have much faith that will ever succeed though. I'd be lucky to hit double digits.
Just my two cents. People keep saying they want to get to know the real me behind the attitude I have.. well..there it is..
Ineligible: I'm really proud to be in a group that can create a thread with as much honesty as this.
I was lucky not to have positively abusive parents, but even so there was a lot of emotional coldness, the sort that constantly reminds offspring how much they cost and never tells them they are loved. Even that has left scars that I think will always influence me. Of course, I try to avoid the same mistake with my children, though I doubtless make others.
I have constantly to learn that life and the world are always more complex than I imagine, and no single issue controls things so all you have to do is fix that, but instead everything affects, and is affected by, everything else. I wonder how many people do feel fully adequate? And I suspect those who do, are the most clearly missing something.
I was lucky not to have positively abusive parents, but even so there was a lot of emotional coldness, the sort that constantly reminds offspring how much they cost and never tells them they are loved. Even that has left scars that I think will always influence me. Of course, I try to avoid the same mistake with my children, though I doubtless make others.
I have constantly to learn that life and the world are always more complex than I imagine, and no single issue controls things so all you have to do is fix that, but instead everything affects, and is affected by, everything else. I wonder how many people do feel fully adequate? And I suspect those who do, are the most clearly missing something.
MASSIVEPKGO_CHUCK
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Well, as I mentioned in my post in this forum, I didn't graduate HS. But I never really had much of supportive people looking out or caring for my situation. Half was my fellow classmates, who in elementary school early on decided that in my case that the criteria for good friends was good grades. Now later on, the teachers, who instead of understanding my dilemma, accused me of not trying my best and became exhausted and impatient with me and sent me off to a special education teacher.
That almost taught and convinced me that I was worthless, until I realized THEY'RE THE ONE WHO WERE WORTHLESS in not helping me to the best of their abilities. That is why I have decided to start a cause for placing students with teachers who will do everything in their power to help them , and never give up them.
Looking back on the elementary school thing, I've also made up my mind that if I EVER become famous, I'm never going to mention them.
That almost taught and convinced me that I was worthless, until I realized THEY'RE THE ONE WHO WERE WORTHLESS in not helping me to the best of their abilities. That is why I have decided to start a cause for placing students with teachers who will do everything in their power to help them , and never give up them.
Looking back on the elementary school thing, I've also made up my mind that if I EVER become famous, I'm never going to mention them.
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