Semenya's Gender Test Results Are In

[Principessa]

I would drug test her, regardless of gender.

Why? She is NOT a drug addict! She is not using steroids. Google Caster Semenya, then weigh in.

 

[D_Fiona_Farvel]

she is an intersexed person and has chosen to live her life as a female.

as far as breasts? show me one set of double DD sporting a gold medal. the body fat levels of professional runners are so low that menses and breasts are usually a thing of the past when competing at an Olympic level.

all though, kudos to science for furthering bigotry and a binary gender system :irked:

While I support her choice as an intersexed individual to select her gender, or live gender indeterminate, I do not believe her physical advantages should be ignored in sport. It really isn't a Renee Richards-like issue where there is some level of skill necessary that supersedes basic physical strength. :shrug:

I would be perfectly willing to believe that noone knew that she had internal testes, and therefore did not cheat. I would let her keep her medal, but would not let her compete in the future unless her maleness was neutralised or brought down to what was considered an appropriate level for people competing in the women's events.

Common sense, love it! I absolutely agree.

I wasn't aware you had any respect for me. Lately it seems most people do not. For all I know you could be a member of the 'Ban NJQT466, Forever Club.'

With the way you pepper your posts with personal attacks and name calling, this can't be a surprise, NJ.

 

[Principessa]

With the way you pepper your posts with personal attacks and name calling, this can't be a surprise, NJ.

I react strongly. If people don't like it then they shouldn't attack me.

 

[B_New End]

I am of the opinion, that non surgically created vulva should have been enough. Now she has no running career. I hope they do not take her medal away. I feel sorry for her. Notice I continue to call her a her, because she is a woman, period.

 

[MickeyLee]

While I support her choice as an intersexed individual to select her gender, or live gender indeterminate, I do not believe her physical advantages should be ignored in sport. It really isn't a Renee Richards-like issue where there is some level of skill necessary that supersedes basic physical strength. :shrug:

what about Ms. Semenya's rights?

options: surgery, chemical castration.... oh banishment... that's real fucking fair.

she's didn't just wake up one morning, throw on a pair of running shoes and win the damn Olympics... she busted her ass and trained like crazy, like everyone else there.

if her medals are taken away, if she is not allowed to compete the only message being sent is that intersexed athletes are not welcome at the Olympic Games.

until some Committee demands that all athletes have sex determination testing done, this is fucking witch hunt. the general acceptance of a second class status for intersex/gender variant people is the only reason this is even an issue.

wait, maybe she can compete in the Special Olympics next year.

 

[Principessa]

I am of the opinion, that non surgically created vulva should have been enough. Now she has no running career. I hope they do not take her medal away. I feel sorry for her. Notice I continue to call her a her, because she is a woman, period.

If a non-surgically created vulva is enough to make her a woman. Then why aren't her non-surgically created testes which produce mass quantities of testosterone enough to make her a man?

My understanding was that they can't take her medal away as she has done nothing wrong. They can unfortunately prevent her from competing in the future as a woman, cause she isn't. I call her a she because, male is also incorrect; and "it" is just wrong, not to mention unkind. :frown1:

 

[dolfette]

You are correct, but sometimes parents don't want to see anything different or wrong with their children. My mom was an astute and talented teacher. Yet I was diagnosed as being dyscalculaic and dyslexic as a freshman in college. I was 18. The signs had been there all along. She just couldn't bare the thought of having a child with a special need, a child who was different.

i'm guessing that a lot of people in the the world have never heard of these problems and don't know they exist.
in rural areas in south africa people sometimes still use witch doctors. i kid you not. that guy i dated from zim had even been to one as a kid, because docs were far, far away.
she has female genitals.
we've all known girls who looked boyish and were mistaken if they wore pants or had their hair cut short.

her parents must be so distressed.

 

[B_New End]

If a non-surgically created vulva is enough to make her a woman. Then why aren't her non-surgically created testes which produce mass quantities of testosterone enough to make her a man?

Because throughout the history of the Olympics, gender has been based on naturally formed genitilia.

 

[D_Fiona_Farvel]

what about Ms. Semenya's rights?

options: surgery, chemical castration.... oh banishment... that's real fucking fair.

she's didn't just wake up one morning, throw on a pair of running shoes and win the damn Olympics... she busted her ass and trained like crazy, like everyone else there.

if her medals are taken away, if she is not allowed to compete the only message being sent is that intersexed athletes are not welcome at the Olympic Games.

until some Committee demands that all athletes have sex determination testing done, this is fucking witch hunt. the general acceptance of a second class status for intersex/gender variant people is the only reason this is even an issue.

wait, maybe she can compete in the Special Olympics next year.

ML, my post did not include anti-intersexed statements or suggest anything like the options above. Nor would I write such, so please dial back the indignation.

I understand there are issues regarding her rights, but it is not appropriate to protect her position in track over the rights of other women to engage in fair, as much as it can be, gendered competition.

What the solution is, I have no idea. However, there's no reason to deny she has a physical advantage. To what degree, that will have to be determined, but any solution should be fair and equitable for all involved.

I react strongly. If people don't like it then they shouldn't attack me.

Unfortunately, it isn't always done in response to another's attack.

 

[MickeyLee]

ML, my post did not include anti-intersexed statements or suggest anything like the options above. Nor would I write such, so please dial back the indignation.

I understand there are issues regarding her rights, but it is not appropriate to protect her position in track over the rights of other women to engage in fair, as much as it can be, gendered competition.

What the solution is, I have no idea. However, there's no reason to deny she has a physical advantage. To what degree, that will have to be determined, but any solution should be fair and equitable for all involved.

i shouldn't have aimed my bitch/rant at you Ms. ShadyLady... really only the first line has anything to do with what i quoted from your comment. the rest is just ire and venom for the thread.

to me, gender-queer that i am, the whole thread reads as one long justification to discriminate or punish one individual for being different. people can phrase it anyway they want.. in the end it boils down to Ms. Semenya is not normal, her rights will be defined by a fictional concept of binary, fixed gender/sex. that because she is not gender/sex normative she is not a person, less deserving of rights or respect. :frown1:

it's fucking harsh from my side of the fence.

 

[dolfette]

i shouldn't have aimed my bitch/rant at you Ms. ShadyLady... really only the first line has anything to do with what i quoted from your comment. the rest is just ire and venom for the thread.

to me, gender-queer that i am, the whole thread reads as one long justification to discriminate or punish one individual for being different. people can phrase it anyway they want.. in the end it boils down to Ms. Semenya is not normal, her rights will be defined by a fictional concept of binary, fixed gender/sex. that because she is not gender/sex normative she is not a person, less deserving of rights or respect. :frown1:

it's fucking harsh from my side of the fence.

the way she's been treated is shocking.
the worst, most intimate news of her life is global gossip.
she can't race, she'll never have children and the world sees her as a man in drag...that's just too much.

but she seems to have the loyal support of her nation.
i hope she can get over this and have a good life.
maybe some good can come of this,
and maybe public perceptions will change.

 

[Wish-4-8]

Hey, trap shooting is open to both male and female where they compete against each other as an Olympic sport. See, there is hope!

 

[D_Fiona_Farvel]

i shouldn't have aimed my bitch/rant at you Ms. ShadyLady... really only the first line has anything to do with what i quoted from your comment. the rest is just ire and venom for the thread.

to me, gender-queer that i am, the whole thread reads as one long justification to discriminate or punish one individual for being different. people can phrase it anyway they want.. in the end it boils down to Ms. Semenya is not normal, her rights will be defined by a fictional concept of binary, fixed gender/sex. that because she is not gender/sex normative she is not a person, less deserving of rights or respect. :frown1:

it's fucking harsh from my side of the fence.

:hug: I know and completely understand.
I also find some of the language/suggestions in this thread, the previous one about the Transwoman in prison, and Robert Eads to be offensive.

However, although I support LGBTI ( new acronym) issues, I think any possible advantages should be discussed. I'm OK with our disagreeing, but I want you to know we are on the same page about her rights and people using her case as an opportunity to take a swipe at the intersexed, gender queer, gender ambiguous, transgender, etc.

P.S. You're still my favorite LGBTI positive poster.

 

[jason_els]

So do we create a third category of competition for the intersexed? Or do we allow her to compete as a male since she has testes? Did she herself even know or suspect this?

I can't help but feel that she/he's being wronged by this whole process.

 

[Drifterwood]

So do we create a third category of competition for the intersexed? Or do we allow her to compete as a male since she has testes? Did she herself even know or suspect this?

I can't help but feel that she/he's being wronged by this whole process.

I think that the IAAF and other administrators for that matter need to examine their regulations and ensure that they have a definition of woman that does not give an unfair advantage to anyone.

 

[D_Ivana Dickenside]

the thing that pisses me off about all the articles i read on her is how the media labels her as a hermaphrodite. why can't people just fucking say intersexed?!!!!!

before you all get your panties in a twist, yes i studied my biology and i know hermaphrodite is the term used in the world of science and medicine to label an organism that has two sexes; however, the term is used to label species and animals, not humans. in semenya's case, as well as all people like her, hermaphrodite considered a derogatory term.

regardless that she has both sexes, she is still and always will be a person just like the rest of us! and so what if she chose to identify her gender as female? big fucking deal. that shouldn't mean she deserves to go through all this stupid testing bullshit and be treated unfairly. maybe if the IAAF added a third category in for people of both genders, all this crap wouldn't be causing a big fuss.

 

[CurvyAsh]

Not a huge suprise that she was found to be intersexed, if you showed a video of her interview to anyone who didnt know what was happening and ask them whether it was a lady or a man, I would put money on them saying she was a man.

Its not her fault and she should keep any previous medals she has won. But if her being intersexed gives her an unfair advantage (which is to be determined still) over the other women then she cannot compete with them pure and simple. That doesnt mean that she cant compete in the mens races however, if she is good enough. Its not depriving her of rights its just making sure she is racing in the right races

 

[Expando1]

how?

athletes often have no periods and flat chests. it's the low body fat.
these people are from a rural village in africa...just assuming they'd have ready access to doctors & scans is daft. and the culture isn't one where people openly talk about women's bodily functions.
shit, even in the west it's sometimes not picked up until her age...the literature says periods can start as late as 19.
if your child looks normal and is healthy then you assume they're normal.

you can't judge these people like they live in urban america.

good insight. agree.

 

[Pendlum]

This is quite the lose lose situation. She loses, and her fellow athletes lose. What makes it such a mess is because it involves sports. The whole point of sports are the rules basically. They are used to determine the outcome. One of those rules happens to involve gender. And that unfortunately doesn't incorporate transgendered, or whatever the proper term is. And I don't see how it can, unless you make a league for that group specifically, and that isn't a very sustainable league, not to mention it could ostracize them even more. It could almost become a niche sport, like curling (which shouldn't be an Olympic sport, it's a god damn game like shuffle board).

But man, she is definitely in the worst spot of this whole mess, no doubt. She is either an advantaged woman, or a disadvantaged male. I think the people in the race she won the medal in should all agree to let her keep the medal.

But either way it is unfair for both sides. I'd say more so for Semenya because of the emotional toll this has.

 

[naughty]

This is a new low in Olympic history. This poor person was raised as a female. Quite often in hermaphroditism the male characteristics dont start even showing themselves until after puberty she should not be penalized. This was a witch hunt because of her performance. How many other people have to go through this kind of scrutiny? Are not transegender females females even if they have not been born with an internal female reproductive system? There is more that one thing that makes a female. This person should not be penalized because they were blessed with both male and female organs. This whole thing makes me sick to my stomach that someone would go to these lengths to win. It would be one thing if she had been injected with testosterone but because of a natural anomaly she is being threatened with having her medals removed? This is even beneath the haters.