Senate Healthcare Bill

[B_VinylBoy]

I have to call Bullshit on this whole post.First off,what do you know about the military?did you read an article or something?you are confusing medics with highly trained surgeons who learned their skills in a war zone.In peace time they honed their skills in some of the most critical Er's in this country.I would jump at the chance to have one of these surgeons work on me over some third world "doctor" any day.
As far as Viet Nam vets, I've walked the walk,You would have probably shit yourself and cried for your mommy.

You're about 5 days too late, Wilbur...
And besides, since I'm openly gay and highly opinionated, I wouldn't be welcome in the Military anyhow. I'm not the type to just shut up and always go with the program. I ask questions. I don't just blindly follow the team. I don't agree with putting my life on the line for a cause that I don't either understand or completely agree with. So whether or not I could handle myself in a war zone is irrelevant, however, thank you for even trying to judge my abilities based on a Political post on a penis site.

Besides, I already stated (5 days ago) that I was joking to some degree. I supposed you didn't read that, so here's a link to that post again: http://www.lpsg.org/139900-senate-healthcare-bill-3.html#post2219365

Again, someone proposed having returning Military troops to help out with our Health Care problems. My main issue is whether or not they would be the ones suitable for the job. Upon discussing this with someone else who didn't seem to think I would shit my pants at the sight of a gun (which BTW, I've been at the wrong end of one... twice), I've learned that most troops are trained on a level to be on par with a Paramedic. That's good to know because these talents can be used on a basic, everyday level for things such as regular physicals and basic emergency treatments. But even with this knowledge, there are still many procedures and medical conditions I can think of that I would rather have a better trained physician on hand. Just because you were on the front lines of Vietnam or even Iraq doesn't automatically make you the best of person to determine treatment for a cancer patient, or the one to turn to when it pertains to long term HIV care.

Stick to the issue, and let's not make this an attack on my personal abilities all because you found it necessary to fight a war and I didn't. ESPECIALLY since the war you're sourcing I wasn't even born to witness.

 

[Industrialsize]

That's assuming, of course, that the physical and mental state of anyone exiting the Military is suitable enough to conduct medical procedures on the everyday person. Some may be able to do such a thing, but many would not. And as much as I appreciate our Military protecting us when need to, I don't think I would like someone with no extensive medical training dealing with someone who has a critical medical condition that requires more than aligning a broken bone, extracting shrapnel or stitching up an open wound.

Imagine if this idea was in place back in the days of Vietnam when certain vets were coming back in our country mentally scarred? Instead of getting much needed medical and psychological help for themselves, they would in turn have to administer that to other people. Just putting a mental image to this would feel like watching a remake of the movie "Born On The Forth Of July" as interpreted by Rob Zombie.

Not sure if this is the winning scenario you were looking for, but I'd rather have my medical needs taken care of by real professionals.[/QUOT

I have to call Bullshit on this whole post.First off,what do you know about the military?did you read an article or something?you are confusing medics with highly trained surgeons who learned their skills in a war zone.In peace time they honed their skills in some of the most critical Er's in this country.I would jump at the chance to have one of these surgeons work on me over some third world "doctor" any day.
As far as Viet Nam vets, I've walked the walk,You would have probably shit yourself and cried for your mommy.

Can you define the term,"Third World Doctor"?

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Damn... you responded and I didn't catch it. Sorry about that! :frown1:

Vinyl, love the discussion thanks.
Ok now lets take your experience, you do computer work, do you think someone who has studied in school would be able to perform the work as well as you? Does school trump experience? You see it everywhere, people with degrees all over but can't function in the world.

Personally, I don't see how or why schooling can completely trump actual work experience. If I was presented with two candidates, one fresh out of college with a degree and one seasoned pro who has 10-20 years of professional experience on a resumé that actually checks out, then I'm going to the pro. Which is not to say that the person with the college degree doesn't know the procedure in doing the task, but the other person, even without the piece of paper, have proven repeatedly that (s)he can not only do the job but do it in an actual work scenario. I'm constantly turned down for high end computer jobs because I don't have a degree in Computer Science, and most of that is due to the fact that I cannot afford to pay for college. However, I have nearly 18+ years of professional experience through freelancing and my current job. From Help Desk duties at Ivy League Colleges, to working IT for major magazine, desktop publishing and music companies. You'd think that would count for SOMETHING, alas many companies want to see the degree more than they want to focus on the actual abilities. Is it fair? I don't think so, but I can't make someone see something they refuse to see. At the same time, I wish I could land myself a job that could generate enough income for me to even consider going back to school.

Military medicine is way more than the battlefield. You still see colds, STD's, pregnant women, physicals, work in the lab, xray, vision test, the whole enchilada. You also have to be able to treat all walks of life, from babies to old people about to die.

Sounds like it's on par with the Paramedic, like you previously stated.

So someone practicing medicine for 18 years hasn't made it their life? Or because that person didn't go to college then practice for 18 is that it? What constitutes someone making it their life?

Well, to be honest I don't think most people enter into the Military with the intention to practice Medicine. Most go because they offer money to help people pay for college. If the ultimate goal was to become a doctor, wouldn't most people strive towards the college route anyhow?

My thing about being a paramedic was just giving my experience what I have done. To be a qualified physician you have to go to school, boards licensure all that. What I was saying is we have people who see patients all day every day. Some are very good at it, some are not. Why not use the skills these people have?

Perhaps you do have a point there.

Yes, you wouldn't see a paramedic or a PA for cancer treatment, but lets look at who the uninsured is. Mostly young people who don't think they need it. They go to the doctor for colds, flu, broken bones, car wrecks, drank too much. Do you have to see a doctor for that? Would having a system in between take some of the burden off the emergency room? If I were seeing someone and found out they had cancer, it would be pretty silly for me to say I was going to treat you. It would also be silly for my family doctor to treat me also. He would send me to an Oncologist. Same thing I would do. Hey and the Military has those types of Doctors also!
But again saying I am not a, or not being professional is insulting.

I'll watch the wording next time. :redface:

I am not for government run health care. Show me anything the government has run that works.

That's a completely different topic altogether, fueled by a lot of rhetoric that is generated from people's overall discontent with our government. The truth is, our government isn't completely broken. It just doesn't work efficiently. We have systems that try to look out for those who are poverty stricken and below, but then leaves everyone in the middle out in the cold.

Now I have a question I see these reports about medical bankruptcies. I don't get why? We don't have debtors prison here. Medical bills are unsecured credit, so if you don't pay what can they do? I have been to the ER two times without insurance. Got treated and got the bill. I pay like $5 a month, or what I can afford.

I don't think that's the real problem here.
Some places won't even see or treat you if you don't have insurance. As much as people don't want to believe that happens, it does. It's happened to me once. And skipping out on payments is part of the reason why we're in this financial mess to begin with.

You have treatments that are too expensive to get for most people. You have people who are poor who need the treatments but have no insurance or money to pay for them. They go to a hospital and get treated anyhow, walking around with this massive debt that follows them to their grave. The hospital writes off the bad debt thinking everything is going to be fine. But debt never really disappears. As we've all seen, it accumulates... eventually to the level where we can't ignore it anymore. So many people have essentially written off their debts, that we actually SELL DEBT in an attempt to make money. If someone hasn't paid off their bills in several years, what makes ANYONE they're going to? They do it in the hopes that the government will pay it off, but as we can see they really can't. But now I'm digressing... and I haven't even bothered diverging into the mess that is pharmaceuticals yet.

 

[Flashy]

well, regardless of anyone's personal view on what should be done regarding the healthcare bill, the Congressional Budget Office came out yesterday on the record stating that all the proposal that house and senate dems have crafted lack financial prudence and control of spending.

neither the CBO, or the Washington Post are tools of the right either

washingtonpost.com


the fact is, that conservative democrats are in near riot mode over this.

 

[Mr Ed in Mass]

You're about 5 days too late, Wilbur...
And besides, since I'm openly gay and highly opinionated, I wouldn't be welcome in the Military anyhow. I'm not the type to just shut up and always go with the program. I ask questions. I don't just blindly follow the team. I don't agree with putting my life on the line for a cause that I don't either understand or completely agree with. So whether or not I could handle myself in a war zone is irrelevant, however, thank you for even trying to judge my abilities based on a Political post on a penis site.

Besides, I already stated (5 days ago) that I was joking to some degree. I supposed you didn't read that, so here's a link to that post again: http://www.lpsg.org/139900-senate-healthcare-bill-3.html#post2219365

Again, someone proposed having returning Military troops to help out with our Health Care problems. My main issue is whether or not they would be the ones suitable for the job. Upon discussing this with someone else who didn't seem to think I would shit my pants at the sight of a gun (which BTW, I've been at the wrong end of one... twice), I've learned that most troops are trained on a level to be on par with a Paramedic. That's good to know because these talents can be used on a basic, everyday level for things such as regular physicals and basic emergency treatments. But even with this knowledge, there are still many procedures and medical conditions I can think of that I would rather have a better trained physician on hand. Just because you were on the front lines of Vietnam or even Iraq doesn't automatically make you the best of person to determine treatment for a cancer patient, or the one to turn to when it pertains to long term HIV care.

Stick to the issue, and let's not make this an attack on my personal abilities all because you found it necessary to fight a war and I didn't. ESPECIALLY since the war you're sourcing I wasn't even born to witness.

To start with,I posted when I first saw your stupid comment. I guess I have a time limit?The issue at hand for me was the fact that you managed to slap the faces of 3 million good men and women with your careless thoughtless "joke".I also liked you backhanded compliment to the military.I know that you think that the military is a "evil" that must be endured..I could reply about another stereotype,but you know what?I'm better than that.
I do have to give you credit though,you forgot to call us baby killers or to bring up My Lai. Did you forget?
I"m sticking to the issue,the problem is,YOU don't know what the issue is.I will defend the military when attacked,Yes it was an attack on people like ME.,but then again I know not to expect an apology.
Medics are like paramedics but most go on to non medical civilian life.The military has hospitals were they treat cancer,child birth, traffic accidents, plus gun shot victims.The doctors are highly trained, and like I said before,they go through rotations in some of the busiest civilian ER's in the country
I don't go into the political forum that often any more because there is no substance to any of the posts any more.I've been an Independent from day one and I don't always agree with what is being done by the party in power even though I voted for them.The Libs here give Obama a blanket endorsement over everything that he does, and not a peep of concern over what we are going through.These past months have seen the biggest changes since this country was founded.I don't think every change is correct. A person must be a robot if they can't think for themsevles.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Well, perhaps if you would have read the following posts immediately after the first one instead of jumping to conclusions, maybe you would have known that I already stated that it was a joke? But no, you can't do that. Somehow, you read an obviously exaggerated statement, didn't notice the underlying tone of ridicule in it, then bounced back with an equally stupid comment about how I would cry for mommy if I was on the front line of Vietnam. Again, that is NOT the issue here. I'm not attacking anyone's work ethic on the battlelines. Nor am I trying to take the stage to indulge in childish, "I'm more manly than you" banter either. Don't just think you immediately get respect just because you fought in a war. What's next... Am I supposed to just bow down to your self-imposed superiority just because you're a Christian?

I really don't have a beef with you, Ed, and I wouldn't want this to turn into something it isn't. Like I said several times before, it was a joke. Let's stick to the topic which is Health Care.

 

[Flashy]

frankly, i am glad that children are speaking out against this very bad bill.

Study: Most Children Strongly Opposed To Children?s Healthcare | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Gotta love The Onion... :biggrin:

 

[Mr Ed in Mass]

I don't have a problem with you either except that you say some really stupid things sometimes and are arrogant and when you get called on it,YOU bitch about it.It was joke? OK fine!
How many nigg.........Get my point? Some jokes are better left unsaid because they hurt someone.I hope to know when I hurt someone and then try to make it right. I have a RIGHT to bitch about it, no matter what YOU think. I also give YOU the same right if I am out of line.I'll also choose the place or time to bitch.And I don't give a shit if the post is 15 yrs old. I brought up my service not to throw it in you face or anyone elses.I just get sick of how you people [ LIBS] treat my people [ Everyone else] as some sort of social disease.I wanted you to remember it's because of people like me, that people like you, can exist.
That thing about shitting your pants was a JOKE.You brought up that my war was before your time well,there is a bright new shiney war waiting for you. Now see that was a good joke. enough of that.

How come Global Warming is now Climate change and Health Care Reform is now Health Insurance Reform? Well,That's because this administration,along with the last,doesn't have a fucking clue as to what they're doing.
Any one who thinks that THEIR taxes won't go up is living in a fantasy world. A tax by any other cute little catch phrase is STILL a tax.This whole entire package, that keeps getting dumped on us,which by the way wasn't even read, is not substainable.Our dollar is losing it's world standing ,our debt is killing our children's future. we manufacture NOTHING!
Take some time and get ALL the REAL facts and decide for yourself.

 

[B_cigarbabe]

V.B. darling, you by now know that Mr. Ed is hypersensitive about anything having to do with Vietnam or his ummm capabilities....Rebulicans....dicks...gloryholes....."climate change"... sense of humour.......
Not that they have anything to do with what you were talking about.:tongue:
Anyone looking for an "Independant" roomate with guns"?
C.B.:saevil:

 

[B_VinylBoy]

I don't have a problem with you either except that you say some really stupid things sometimes and are arrogant and when you get called on it,YOU bitch about it.It was joke? OK fine!
How many nigg.........Get my point?

You still don't get it.
I know I said something stupid. It was intentional. I was trying to get a few chuckles, and it didn't work. I was already called on it and I already stated it was a joke. At this point, I don't need to issue any other apologies or explanation. The text is there for anyone to read if they actually cared to get the real story. Apparently, you're not here to do that. I'm not being arrogant or "bitchy" about this... that's the facts. You can take them or leave them.

And BTW, sweetie... you'll have to do a LOT worse than typing an abridged version of the N-Word to rustle my feathers. As if I never saw or had to deal with the word "nigger" before in my life.

Some jokes are better left unsaid because they hurt someone.I hope to know when I hurt someone and then try to make it right. I have a RIGHT to bitch about it, no matter what YOU think.

Believe me, I know this already.
I have a small group of morons on this board preaching to me as if I'm part of an inferior race. Then, I also have people preaching down to me because I'm gay. THEN, I have people attacking my beliefs because I have a circumcision. The way some of these people post their "jokes" or hateful rhetoric, you'd think that a gay, black, circumcised male is the biggest threat to America. Yet, I have to deal with all of this garbage too.

And I don't give a shit if the post is 15 yrs old.

And there lays the problem.
Sometimes it's best to find out the whole story and not stop as soon as you see one word or phrase you don't agree with. Right now, it just looks as if you just want to attack someone's personal character than to understand the situation. By all means, you have every right to voice your opinion on whatever you want on this board. But just as I have to deal with your responses, you ALSO have to deal with mine.

I brought up my service not to throw it in you face or anyone elses.I just get sick of how you people [ LIBS] treat my people [ Everyone else] as some sort of social disease.

You SERIOUSLY don't want to go down this avenue.
I already said I was joking, and you still don't care to comprehend or understand that. But now you're trying to make it political by saying that 'liberals" have problems with everyone else. Do I need to go into detail with the current demise of the GOP to illustrate how it may not be the "libs" that have a problem with diversity & acceptance? Or is there any wonder why the majority of faces & voices that scream the loudest all look, sound and act exactly the same?

I wanted you to remember it's because of people like me, that people like you, can exist.

Now you're putting too much value into your service. Your actions in Vietnam have no bearing on how my mother & father personally lived their lives. They still would have fucked in 1973, and I still would have been born even if you didn't fight on the front lines. You need to learn the difference between rhetoric and reality, and understand that although you did a wonderful service for this country that it doesn't overshadow and have a bearing on everything else that proceeds after it.

And you call me arrogant?

That thing about shitting your pants was a JOKE.You brought up that my war was before your time well,there is a bright new shiney war waiting for you. Now see that was a good joke. enough of that.

Ummmmm.. I guess?

How come Global Warming is now Climate change and Health Care Reform is now Health Insurance Reform? Well,That's because this administration,along with the last,doesn't have a fucking clue as to what they're doing.

So, we're both convinced that we have a lot of idiots in government.

Any one who thinks that THEIR taxes won't go up is living in a fantasy world. A tax by any other cute little catch phrase is STILL a tax.This whole entire package, that keeps getting dumped on us,which by the way wasn't even read, is not substainable.Our dollar is losing it's world standing ,our debt is killing our children's future. we manufacture NOTHING!
Take some time and get ALL the REAL facts and decide for yourself.

I've read all the facts, and still realize that we have a hard time ahead of us either way. But instead of bitching about it, I try to rely on the things that may make the bumpy ride a little smoother.

 

[Mr Ed in Mass]

Vinyl,
I'm done with this,it's gotten out of hand.You win,you get the tinsel Tiara and the magic slippers,the special password and the 40 slaves for the night.
You will never see it though my eyes, or me ,through yours. Later Baby.

 

[B_cigarbabe]

Wow! I wish I could say that I'm stunned Ed but I'm not.
I wish you could see things the way they were intended.
I am going to depart from the thread for a moment please indulge me.
Ed I know you'd like me to always agree with you and back you up, but I can't do that when I have a very different take on the way you see things.
Oh how I wish I could Mr. Ed but would it make our life better?
I didn't reply to VinylBoy to hurt you.
I'm going to leave it at that Mr. Ed and hope you'll try to understand both of our viewpoints.
C.B.:saevil:

Now back to your previously scheduled politics!:biggrin1:
Thank you for your patience an indulgence.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Vinyl,
I'm done with this,it's gotten out of hand.You win,you get the tinsel Tiara and the magic slippers,the special password and the 40 slaves for the night.
You will never see it though my eyes, or me ,through yours. Later Baby.

The problem is, sweetie, I can. I've always lived my life on the fence or in two worlds, ever since the age of six when I was bussed 2 hours away from home to the suburbs to be the only minority in class. Being greeted and shunned away by neighborhood people on both sides of the coin... one side angry because I was different from the other kids, and dealing with nasty people back at home who assumed I was "too good" to go to school with my own kind. And it didn't stop when I got out of school either, since I now had to continue the double life due to my sexuality, never mind being in an interracial, intergenerational relationship. So now, even the accepting ones of my ethnicity would look at me differently because I didn't sleep with women. And being that I also dated caucasions, that meant I was either "too good" to date & sleep with my own kind, or "too needy" because I was searching for a quick way to the top by "sleeping with the enemy". And thoughts of acceptance in the gay community were now brought with drama as well, because I was now looked at as someone who wanted a "sugar daddy" to take care of me. Etc, etc, muthafuckin' etc... Need I go on?

Trust me... I may not be able to understand every delicate detail, but believe me I can understand why some people think the way that they do. I can see things in MANY different directions. I have to... that way I can not fall victim to the countless labeling and forge my own identity.

This was not a game to win or lose. Sorry you felt that way.

 

[B_cigarbabe]

Thank you V.B. for your thoughtfulness and taking the time to explain specifically to Mr. Ed. I appreciate it.
C.B.:saevil:

 

[B_ccc888]

This is my proposal for reducing health care costs :

1. Loose weight and slim down or you will be fined. If you are on welfare
better do it soon or Gov. will take the welfare checks out.
No more bacons, no more donuts for ignorant fatsos

2. Expand community health care centers in urban areas for walk-ins
non emergency medical service.

First come first served with affordable fees, or can be combined with
appointment system with higher "convenient fees"

(well got to pay more to cut the line right ?)

3. Legalize abortions and Euthanasia

Teens pregnancies are just unbelievable and we can't afford to pay
those damned babies. It's not my sperm and my ignorant why should I pay
for them ?

Abortion is pro-life,

unborn babies mean unwanted and unloved babies by ignorant parents
who don't care about their future and well beings.

Most if not all those babies will choose to be aborted if they knew
before hand that their moms are horny bitches who didn't know how
to shut their legs and their dads are unknown since their moms slept
with so many guys, and they can't afford to have babies.

Euthanasia should be perfectly legal, why wasting more money on terminally ill people who wish to die as better choice ?
To die with dignity is human right also, and who the hell you are that can tell me

I should live to endure pain and suffering because of my illness ?

4. Tax cigarettes, fats, sugar

5. Mandatory PE class for all students including swimming, cardio and
aerobics.

6. Tax and charge the obese double when riding planes and all public transit.

any additional folks?

 

[Bodaddio]

Vinyl, it is all good. Takes me awhile to get back sometimes, especially when we have no internet for a few days.
Two things, you never did tell me one thing the government runs well. I know it isn't all broken. I know it isn't perfect. But one thing. These are the people you want to run your health care? What do they do that is fiscally sound. Makes sense, is timely?
If people can't afford to see the doctor, when was the last time you paid for someone's health insurance? If it is SO important to you any of you who say let the government take form the rich and pay for it. What have you done to make it better? Have you bought your neighbor who just lost his job, his insurance for the month? Put money in the bucket for the kid getting cancer treatment? Just walked into a doctors office and said, I'll pay the next co-pay that walks in the door? Anything? If this has been going on for decades, what have you done? You can voluntarily pay more taxes. If it is so patriotic, are you doing it? Why wait for the government to take it from you. Be pro-active and do it.
If everyone who thinks government run health care is the answer gave $2 a month, how much care for the less fortunate would that take care of?

Cheers

 

[B_VinylBoy]

1. Loose weight and slim down or you will be fined. If you are on welfare better do it soon or Gov. will take the welfare checks out. No more bacons, no more donuts for ignorant fatsos

Here's the problem with this scenario. Losing weight for some people is not as easy for others. People who are overweight shouldn't be fined. They already have to suffer with other health & psychological problems, never mind a financial burden. If an overweight person already has no drive to better themselves due to ridicule and lack of motivation, what good a financial obligation on top of that would make? The whole idea is to provide positive motivation to help people lose weight. One doesn't have to give up bacon or donuts, or cut out every food they enjoy in order to slim down. They just need to learn how to prepare their diets properly and engage in regular exercise that they enjoy. The more a person feels good about themselves, the more proactive they become towards bettering their lives.

And besides, who are going to define the standards to what is "overweight"? Does this mean everyone has to get a Wii Fit and be called obese based on some idealistic standard that may not be aligned with every person? :wink:

2. Expand community health care centers in urban areas for walk-ins non emergency medical service.

I don't think this should be reserved for just urban areas.

First come first served with affordable fees, or can be combined with
appointment system with higher "convenient fees"

(well got to pay more to cut the line right ?)

This already happens in our current state of Health Care, and is also part of the problem. If a poor person suffers a heart attack, why should they not be seen as soon as the person with money? It's not as if there are poor & rich levels of heart attacks here.

. Legalize abortions and Euthanasia

Teens pregnancies are just unbelievable and we can't afford to pay
those damned babies. It's not my sperm and my ignorant why should I pay
for them ?

Ironically, when funding for contraceptives and safe sex education was presented in the Stimulus Package, there was all sorts of opposition for that.

unborn babies mean unwanted and unloved babies by ignorant parents who don't care about their future and well beings.

Most if not all those babies will choose to be aborted if they knew
before hand that their moms are horny bitches who didn't know how
to shut their legs and their dads are unknown since their moms slept
with so many guys, and they can't afford to have babies.

OK, I'm not even going to touch some of the rash comments in this part of your thread. But there's so many wrongs in your assumptions here that I don't even have to address them. I'm sure SOMEONE else will.

4. Tax cigarettes, fats, sugar

Well, cigarettes are already being taxed to the hills. And even though I'm not a smoker I can understand why they'd be pissed. Plus, most foods (including healthy ones) have some level of fat and/or sugar in them. Your body DOES need healthier fats in a diet in order to function properly. Just posing a tax on "fats" is not adequate enough.

5. Mandatory PE class for all students including swimming, cardio and aerobics.

Really... mandatory?
I love exercising, but that has to be taught in a positive manner... not enforced in a way to make it seem as if it's a do or die situation. Instead of forcing people to swim, ride a bike or do jumping jacks, PE teachers should show students a variety of exercises that can be done and let students choose which ones they would rather do. With the exception of certain classes when we had to play specific games, we were never forced to do any particular exercise. We had free run of the Weight Room and the Auditorium to do whatever sport-like activity we wanted. If someone wanted to ride a bike, they could. You wanted to play Basketball, you can. This is a better way to approach the subject.

6. Tax and charge the obese double when riding planes and all public transit.

That won't do anything but force people to take cabs. Again, obese people are already targets of negativity in our society. Doing things like this will not make people who are already depressed and unmotivated to change their lives. It'll make them feel more secluded and less motivated to better themselves.

any additional folks?

Yeah... be nice to big people!!! :biggrin1:

 

[Bodaddio]

Vinyl, love you but damn. I wish I knew how to quote.
Losing weight for everyone is easy. Don't eat. Did you ever see any fat people in the concentration camp videos? Less food, more moving around. Weight loss, it really is that easy.
You just stated his case with this!: They already have to suffer with other health & psychological problems, never mind a financial burden.
Why should we be shouldered with the financial burden? You chose to be fat, so I have to pay for it? Why can't I chose not to pay? Why is all the choice given to everyone else? No fat people, no fat health and financial burden.
Why can't we define who is obese? We define everything else. Who is rich, what race you are, your social status. We know what obese is. if I am 5 foot 5 and 5 foot 5 around, I am obese.
Quote:
2. Expand community health care centers in urban areas for walk-ins non emergency medical service.
I don't think this should be reserved for just urban areas.

Boy, where have I heard this one before? Don't tell me, it will come to me.

Poor people who have heart attacks are seen just quick as anyone who has a heart attack. Trust me, no one checks the wallet before starting CPR or pushing drugs.

Cheers

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Vinyl, love you but damn. I wish I knew how to quote.
Losing weight for everyone is easy. Don't eat. Did you ever see any fat people in the concentration camp videos? Less food, more moving around. Weight loss, it really is that easy.

Actually, that's not 100% true.
You can't just starve your body. It needs nutrients from somewhere, and if it doesn't get it from the food you eat it gets it from other parts of your body. That's not healthy, because over time that slows down your metabolism and weakens your muscles and immune system. Without these things, moving around just causes more stress to the body. Working out without proper nutrients immediately following just breaks down the system more. Eventually, the body turns to your existing muscle for its nutrients out of desperation and major body damage can occur. Ever heard of rhabdomyolysis? It's not fun, and it can kill you. That happened to me at the age of seventeen by exercising and running around too much, without eating enough food and in some cases getting enough sleep. And it can happen to anyone, especially workaholics who don't take care of themselves.

If you eat the right foods and exercise, then it really doesn't matter what you consume. Some people say that you should eat up to 6 smaller meals a day instead of three big ones because it helps to keep the metabolism burning and one doesn't have to worry about processing too much food at once.

You just stated his case with this!: They already have to suffer with other health & psychological problems, never mind a financial burden.
Why should we be shouldered with the financial burden? You chose to be fat, so I have to pay for it?

You act as if obesity is a choice someone accepts happily, and not something one deals with out of low self esteem. Considering how much negativity is spread in our society in regards to overweight people, why would anyone willingly condemn themselves to that kind of ridicule voluntarily? It just doesn't make sense. Most people do want to be healthy and have a slimmer body. They may not want to become the next GQ or Vogue model but I'm sure most people would agree that they would want to lose a few extra pounds.

Why can't I chose not to pay? Why is all the choice given to everyone else? No fat people, no fat health and financial burden. Why can't we define who is obese? We define everything else. Who is rich, what race you are, your social status. We know what obese is. if I am 5 foot 5 and 5 foot 5 around, I am obese.

Here's the flaw with this assumption...
Let's look at a chart of "ideal" weights for men: Ideal Body Weight For Men

Most height/weight averages do not take into consideration that some people do work out a lot and have very large muscle masses. That adds weight to one's body. I know someone who has weight trained for more than 6 years, is 5'6 and weighs about 180 lbs. If you placed him on a Wii Fit right now, it would say that he's "obese" based on averages such as the link I provided above. However, one look at him and you can tell that he has very little body fat, is cut sharper than a Hanzo Sword and is built like a professional bodybuilder. Should this person who obviously takes care of himself be penalized because studies say that he's technically overweight?

Judging whether or not someone is overweight or obese should be done on a case by case basis, and not just some standard or average. The idea is to get people to live healthier and feel better about themselves, not to make everyone have the same shape or figure. As much as I like hot looking, tone muscular men, I do like them a little rough on the edges. And I would never turn down a hot man with some extra meat on his bones. The man with the biggest cock I've ever been with was a little on the chubby side. Again, the Wii Fit would say he's "obese". However, he was just right for me... and boy did he know what to do with his tongue! But that's a different discussion for a different day... :wink: