Senate votes to extend debt limit

[madame_zora]

Okay, so now let's try to decide what it actually means to be a republican. It has historically (supposedly) stood for being fiscally conservative and for small goverment. Now we're in a place where the government is claiming more and more territory in our personal lives, and now, the senate has just voted to extend the deficit to cover up the big pile of shit in the floor left by george bush. Each one of us now has a share of $30,000 in the national debt, and if you STILL think I don't have a right to be pissed, realise that I earned about $19k last year.

So if it doesn't mean fiscally conservative and it doesn't mean small government (homeland security, need I say more?), then WHATTHEFUCKISIT?




http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-03-16-debt-ceiling_x.htm

 

[Pecker]

It means wartime deficit spending and an out-of-control Congress (both sides of the aisle) adding to the deficit with blank check porkbarrel projects. If Mr. Bush could get the line-item veto then Sen. Foghorn could tell his constituents that he tried to get that $150 million water fountain installed in the Podunk village town square but the evil President vetoed it.

 

[rob_just_rob]

This could be interesting.

A colleague of mine has bet me a beer that the US dollar will drop (relative to the C$) 15 cents over the next four months. I suppose if the Chinese and Japanese choose to stop subsidizing US spending at their current rate ($2 billion/day), that could easily happen.

I hope not. I'll be out a large sum of money AND a beer if it does.

 

[madame_zora]

I'm in a good place. Being utterly broke means nothing worse can happen. Believe me, no one will be happier than I if China decides to drop us like a dead rat. As a matter of fact, bush HAS named them on the list of "suspicous characters" we "may" have to pursue. After Iran, for whom you may rest assured this money is going to be used to invade.

If this stuff wasn't so predictable it was boring, then, well I guess it wouldn't be boring. But it is. Debt, dead bodies, blah, blah, blah. We'll just hear even more about the evils of being gay and how God Hates Abortion.

 

[BigNThinkKev]

To respond to madame_zora's first post, there are Republicans and then there are RINOs (Republican In Name Only). Some good examples of RINOs are the Governor of California Arnold Schwarzenegger, the Mayor of New York Michael Bloomberg, the President George W. Bush, and the list goes on and on. The conservative core that stands for small government and fiscal responsibility is only 39% of the party and are mostly from the Deep South. The rest of the Republican Party is composed of moderates and RINOs.

Personally, I don't care who I vote for as long as they don't raise my taxes.

And as far as China is concerned as long as WalMart exists China will not abandon the U.S. If you don't believe me check out the PBS special 'Is WalMart Good for America?' -- http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/china/

 

[rob_just_rob]

I'm in a good place. Being utterly broke means nothing worse can happen. Believe me, no one will be happier than I if China decides to drop us like a dead rat. As a matter of fact, bush HAS named them on the list of "suspicous characters" we "may" have to pursue. After Iran, for whom you may rest assured this money is going to be used to invade.

If this stuff wasn't so predictable it was boring, then, well I guess it wouldn't be boring. But it is. Debt, dead bodies, blah, blah, blah. We'll just hear even more about the evils of being gay and how God Hates Abortion.

There's a part of me that would like to see the $US drop like a brick. Unfortunately I know too many people who would suffer as a result. And the US economy is like a cockroach... it keeps coming back after each "death blow", so I didn't hesitate to bet on it. I AM curious about where the money's ($2B/day) going to come from, though.

The war in the middle east is to distract everyone from the sundry encroachments on personal freedom, and it also provides a steady source of excuses to vote for the incumbetents in power - not changing horses in midstream, supporting the troops, etc.

And IMO, persecuting gay people and banning abortion aren't about god at all - they're about keeping the poor and minorities down. Rich gay people can beat obscenity charges, rich women with unwanted pregnancies fly to Switzerland (or perhaps Canada?) for abortions.

Sorry for the digression :spank:

 

[10.5andproudofit]

im not sure if i ever discussed this theory here before but here goes: china holds over 30% of all government issued US tres. bonds, my theory is that someday soon, china is going to say hi give us all this money, orrrrrr forget about recognizing taiwan as an independent nation and see it as an extension of the chinese mainland.

as for the US debt, in a 2 party system alls it takes is both sides to agree to F*** us equally and then they always win. the US needs a legitimate third party. I'm a registered independent who is probably more libertarian than anything.

i think of myself as pro rights. i want all the rights in the world, then i'll choose which to exercise. i want the right for my significant other to choose, the right to marry male or female, RKBA, freedom of speech and any other thing that has been infringed. it is my opinion that the US is hitting its first major decline that it will not recover from. the next century is china's, the economic dominance that once was owned by the US has traded hands; the only chance for a major US economic resurgance would be in the mass reindustrialization of the entire nation. steel, cars, major industry, these things cannot thrive in the US for lack of efficiency. China dominates not for the sake of cheap labor, but for the fact that all of its plants and facilities are current. the US uses steel production methods that are over 100 years old. the fall of US steel marked the fall of a major economic corner stone for our country.

the US government doesn't even support the local economy. a couple weeks ago in the financial times there was a huge article on the fact that the army outsourced to Air Bus (german, english and french? i think ) airplane company instead of boeing for the contract of the jumbo air tankers that refuel the plains in flight. The US has also shut down most of its government owned small arms ammunition production facilities, leaving only the salt lake city plant (i think) open. we've outsourced to isreal and greece for small arms ammunition needs for iraq and afghanastan.

now a lot of this is from a military prospective, but these are major US expenditiures. I'm not a hawk, im a realist, if the US which was once feared for its economic superiority and its war machine has lost both, we'll tumble from the top of the heap before 2020.

just a rant, but worth thinking about

 

[madame_zora]

Rob, I think we are only in disagreement about the order of importance. I think the war is about making.money.fast for Haliburton on government contracts, and it won't end as long as it works. The advancement of fundamentalist causes is just the cost incurred to get their way, I sincerely doubt george bush personally cares either about gays or abortions. Hell, he wasn't even much of a christian before 2001, so I'm just not buying it.

It's my position that the well being of our nation and the balance of the global economy have been sacrificed so that a very few rich americans can PERSONALLY make a ton of cash. Any mystery solver worth their weight in shit would tell you- follow the money.*

*I'm only worth my weight in unprocessed sewage, so feel free to take my words with a grain of salt.

 

[madame_zora]

Nice rant, 10.5!

 

[10.5andproudofit]

and to comment on rob-

its never been a gay thing, and its not really a racial thing anymore. the only color that matters is green. civil liberties will not be lost in one swift blow, it will be through the steady concession of pinpricks to our rights that we will lose them.

winston churchill said something to the effect: men willing to sacrafice freedom for security deserve neither.

thats where we are headed

 

[rob_just_rob]

I can't argue with the conclusion you've reached, MZ. But I do think that the encroachments on personal freedom, the reduction of opportunities to criticize the government, and the general distraction created by the war, are the means by which the government is laying the groundwork for future profiteering.

So basically you're saying the egg comes first, and I say the chicken... same results.

@10.5 - the thing that impresses me most about outsourcing is that foreign investment in the U.S., the one thing that can slow down the trade deficit, is being discouraged at every turn under the guise of "national security". So, Unocal has to remain in U.S. hands, and the Dubai harbour management firm has to sell off its U.S. ports...

It's almost like they WANT a currency crisis. Like I said, interesting. Tomorrow I buy more gold stocks. Preferably ones marketed in euros.

 

[10.5andproudofit]

think it could be a ruise to increase FDI into the US? nothing says bring foreign business here like a weak dollar. . . .

also what did you guys think of the G8 problems with lukoil in russia with their pipeline? * for those who have better things to do then read the financial times- russia has a major outsourcing pipeline that is government controlled and provides much of the oil to eastern and western europe, they are starting to choke that supply and eliminate competition to use the pipe. lukoil is a major russian oil producer fighting the government and buying up foreign oil reserves outside of russia.

 

[Dr Rock]

After Iran, for whom you may rest assured this money is going to be used to invade.

i sure don't see that happening within the next 30 years. after our fantastic experience in iraq, all but the very greediest and/or clinically insane of the assholes in DC will be unwilling to support any similar plan. they can't afford to, both in terms of their careers and their vested interests, which are all they care about. the truly wonderful thing about our "deposition" of saddam hussein is that it's effectively made the world safe for all the genuinely dangerous and nasty dictators and theocrats.

 

[Simon9]

I agree that, for the most part, GWB is a Conservative in name only. Out-of-control spending, foisted on future generations to pay for, is vicious.

"No Taxation Without Representation" was the cry of the revolution. And it's what we're leaving our kids and grandkids. And it's not simply a Republican problem and never was. Both major parties have the same mentality. Which is why we won't see any improvement under either of them.

10.5 is right about the need for a viable third party. But any serious party committed to changing things will not receive much press. Or be invited to major debates.

 

[brainzz_n_dong]

Rob, I think we are only in disagreement about the order of importance. I think the war is about making.money.fast for Haliburton on government contracts, and it won't end as long as it works. The advancement of fundamentalist causes is just the cost incurred to get their way, I sincerely doubt george bush personally cares either about gays or abortions. Hell, he wasn't even much of a christian before 2001, so I'm just not buying it.

It's my position that the well being of our nation and the balance of the global economy have been sacrificed so that a very few rich americans can PERSONALLY make a ton of cash. Any mystery solver worth their weight in shit would tell you- follow the money.*

*I'm only worth my weight in unprocessed sewage, so feel free to take my words with a grain of salt.

The liberal's own axis of evil rears its ugly head once again: Halliburton, Bush, and Fundamentalists. Buy your canned tuna and powdered milk now before it's too late, eh?

 

[madame_zora]

The liberal's own axis of evil rears its ugly head once again: Halliburton, Bush, and Fundamentalists. Buy your canned tuna and powdered milk now before it's too late, eh?

Well BND, your posts would make sense, except that they don't. Are you saying that Halliburton HASN'T gotten a huge cut of the money? Or are you saying you're okay with that? or are you just adding your .02 to make no point at all, as usual?


For the billionth time, I'm not a dyed-in-the-wool democrat, and never have been. That's a limp excuse to keep deriding me, but I guess it's all you've got.

http://lpsg.org/showthread.php?t=24859

 

[madame_zora]

i sure don't see that happening within the next 30 years. after our fantastic experience in iraq, all but the very greediest and/or clinically insane of the assholes in DC will be unwilling to support any similar plan. they can't afford to, both in terms of their careers and their vested interests, which are all they care about. the truly wonderful thing about our "deposition" of saddam hussein is that it's effectively made the world safe for all the genuinely dangerous and nasty dictators and theocrats.

Rock, I would like nothing more than to believe you there. My only problem is that seeing how things have already happened forces me to prepare myself for eventualities I would never have considered before. I now see american stupidity to be a positively limitless commodity, even where self-preservation is concerned. What worries me now is not just the greedy, but the fundies who actually believe this is a GAWDLY war making irrational decisions. There have already been so many, I just have to be ready because I believe it is the intention of this administration to stay at war SOMEWHERE as long as they are in office. They're already setting the groudwork for invading Iran, it's not like the upcomming "talks" are going to yeild anything of value that would prevent it. Still, I'd love to be wrong.

 

[KinkGuy]

We had better ALL learn to speak Chinese. Cuz' that's who owns the majority of our debt.

 

[UniDude]

Read this and then see my signature please.



January 20, 2009 - The End of an Error

Enough said.

 

[KinkGuy]

Cool. That's longer than I thought we were going to survive.