Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'The Healthy Penis' started by darkbond007, Dec 28, 2010.
I wanted to get some feedback on what circumcised men take away from having sex.
I basically foresee three problems here
First, I think you're probably gonna get some folks lying to vote in this poll (or might not know who it's for)
Second, it also might miss the point. One need not feel their sex life/response was ruined to think it was affected negatively.
Third, if sex has to be either GREAT or hopelessly inadequate, sucks to be most of us .
I wish i had ALOT more sensitivity, Its a super good feeling though but i wish it felt like my hand!
What is a circumcised poll ? One where redundant answers have been removed ?
1) That's why I made it pretty straight forward and no gray areas. Limit's the lying.
2) Why not? Its the big dividing argument.
3) When sex is good...its good...From my experience I'm not sure this can be disputed.
The point of this is less about the penis itself and more about how mentally guys with a circumcised penis view their sex life as a whole.
1) Yeah, but not only isn't it very clear that the poll is for circumcised guys only, but there's no really limiter on non-eligible people falsely voting. Even providing a "not applicable for me" option tends to cut down on this.
2-3) What do you mean? Why doesn't something have to be ruined to be affected negatively? Because...it doesn't. No one with 30/20 vision would think their vision "inadequate," but even if they thought it "great," 20/20 would still be preferable.
I guess this question is useful if you're trying to argue that being circumcised doesn't objectively ruin your sex life, but I don't think anyone sane argues otherwise. Isn't it more worthwhile to be addressing the strong arguments against circumcision, not the left-field ones?
Reduntant answers? Surely you jest:biggrin1:.
Excellent points. The opening question "Do you enjoy sex?" could be answered with "Yes" "No" "Sometimes" or on a scale of 10. "Great" and "seems inadequate" aren't even opposites - and you're putting words in the respondant's mouths.
Lying is always an issue in polls - they consistently show that men have more woman partners than women have men, when that's impossible unless someone is lying. A much bigger problem is self-selection. You're much more likely to hear from the outliers - people who feel strongly about the issue - than the middle ground.
And the above poll will tell you nothing about the effect of circumcision, since you have nothing to compare it to. Maybe intact men would answer 100% "great" or maybe 100% "inadequate" - which would have very different implications for circumcision.
This is reaching.
1. Sex....and CIRCUMCISED...if youre on these boards then that means you can read.
2-3) Look. This argument is never about small losses. When the argument is there you guys make it seem like the world was TAKEN from you. The strongest argument that any of you have against circumcision is that your sexual sensation is diminished which I would argue to the grave. I think you and I have been over the other points (ie human rights) and we do not see eye to eye there and those points are subjective at best.
No I'm not. Anyone can or cannot enjoy sex. This is specific. I was uncut and didnt enjoy sex. And there are uncut men who dont enjoy sex. I'm not asking for a rating, it is my intention to ask if they enjoy it period. It's a matter of perspective.
You guys pull out poll after poll to defend your argument and no one EVER says, "Lying is always an issue in polls".
So what youre saying is...a circumcised man has no idea if sex is good being circumcised versus being uncut...just like an uncut man has no idea if sex is good being uncut versus circumcised?
People tend to want vote on polls and will click to vote if only to open up the graph. Young Native is right, you should always provide an option for viewers that the poll doesn't apply to. It makes the calculation a little harder to interpret but it reduces the error.
I like SirConcis response to this - what is a circumcised poll --- one where redundant answers have been removed? This shows the wording needs improvement. Perhaps SirConcis was insightful to your intent?? The "Circumcised" reference is in the title and not in the poll question. Viewers may not pay attention to the title and only read the question or forget the title by the time they have read the question.
That is not true. The argument has been about loss with variations of severity that is dependent on the individual. We have been saying all along that circumcision affects people differently in both the manifestation of the affect and the severity.
It is also about depriving individuals of experiences due to the loss of anatomical structure. This poll is unable to account for that.
Sexual experiences are usually is pleasurable regardless of the quality (or potential quality). It is not that much of a stretch to say that males circumcised at birth may not know that their sexual experiences could be better if they were intact. They may think they are experiencing great sex by their own standard but in reality they are missing out.
There is no question the poll is flawed but even with those flaws, so far over 15% of the respondents voted that circumcised sex is inadequate. The sample size is still relatively small but a 15% rating is significant.
I actually found this poll more confusing than the one you were objecting to. Polls are often leads-ins for the topic, but not identical to it; so usually I just read and answer the poll question on its own. I voted before realizing what you were going for, and I'm not especially dumb (I had no problem understanding what the other thread meant.)
Yeah, and actually, I tend to think there are losses but they aren't typically the difference between "great" and "inadequate." Maybe you should start a poll on whether guys would be OK with meaningful degradation to their sexual sensitivity so long as it wasn't completely ruinous to their ability to enjoy sex, and see how many are just fine with that. That's just how a formal argument works. You don't just find a weak argument you can defeat. You have to defeat the strongest argument there is, even if no one is actually arguing it (although they are here.) Defeating weak arguments is the hallmark of a rationalizer; considering strong arguments (without going in just to defeat them) is the hallmark of someone interested in the truth.
I also understand that you keep saying that rights are "subjective," but unless you're a moral nihilist, or uninterested in cost-benefits analysis (neither of which you seem to be) this doesn't terminate the conversation like you seem to wish it did.
I'm still trying to figure out why there are more people here that the poll >>>DOESN'T EVEN APPLY TO<<< than those that do. It also seems to be the same people I've seen in other circumcision vs intact threads over and over and over again ad infinitum. Maybe I missed something. Probably since I'm missing my almighty foreskin, I'm not thinking straight. Time to tug and restore!
Anyway. As far as the poll goes, sex is great and I have no complaints whatsoever. Sensitivity is never an issue. I've never been mutilated and I don't hate my parents. I'm perfectly happy as is my partner.
History tells me that my honest answer will only be dismissed as some type of freak anomaly.
If the sex is less than satisfactory I blame myself, my sexual partner or some outside condition that is too distracting. I never "blame" my circumcision (even though I'd rather it never have happened).
No, that's your straw man version of our argument.
And you think asking circumcised men (only) whether their sexual feeling is "great" or "seems inadequate" will settle that?
Currently the poll shows:
The feeling I get from sex is GREAT. 37 84.09%
The feeling I get from sex seems inadequate. 7 15.91%
And this proves what about circumcision?
It was DEMONSTRABLY an issue in the poll gigantor cited, where 300 men said they were not circumcised, but 600+ answered a question for intact guys only about wanting to be circumcised. Forgive me if I suspect that some of those were, in fact, lying when they answered. (Constructing a question like that without offering any box for circumcised to fill is just ASKING them to lie.)
No it's not "just like" it. The intact guy feels everything the circumcised guy feels AND the additional feelings his foreskin gives him.
This mechanical argument, equating having had part of one's penis cut off with still having it, is very tedious. I have never heard an intact guy say "I wish I knew what it felt like to have sex without a foreskin" - it's far too easy to imagine. But I've heard a lot of circumcised guys say the reverse.
"If sex is good..." "Good"? Just "good"?
Speaking from experience, when you get circumcised, you gain sensations you did not have as an uncut. For instance, the inner foreksin, once stretched during erection, is far more stimulated and more senstive than when uncut with long foreksin where the inner foreksin is rarely directly stimulated or stretched.
There are a lot of those subtle differences that create new sensations after circumcision. You also lose some (for instance, feeling skin retract from glans).
In my experience the skin when stretched is also much more prone to injury. I've experienced several small tears and abrasions on my penis over the years while masturbating (always on my circumcision scar, coincidence?) because I dislike the feeling of oily substances like Vaseline on my penis and am too cheap to buy a sex lubricant. Doesn't help matters that I produce almost no precum and my orgasms without anything sliding over the second half of my penis are almost nonexistent.
I imagine it's a lot worse when you have no pain response to let you know when something is wrong. I remember this one guy made the news cause he was masturbating on PCP and pulled the skin of his penis off. Care to guess what his circumcision status was? I mean, before he got the extra, super-duper cut?
But in a low and tight circumcision the inner foreskin is cut off. A baby is completely at the mercy of someone who hasn't a clue what his preference might be, and may not even know there are any options.
The doctor doesn't know how long it will be, 20 years later, either.
And any man who chooses to have himself circumcised to explore those sensations, is welcome to do so. But since a considerable amount of tissue is cut off, the latter effect is likely to be much more significant than the former.
Well PCP is also an anaesthetic, so that might not have made any difference. But degloving is a recognised complication of circumcision, and it happened to movie director Frank Capra in adulthood.
I'm not wanting, willing or able to turn this into a circumcised versus uncircumcised discussion. I asked a simple enough question and I got people to answer the poll. Obviously there are people out there who can read and obviously enjoy sex with their circumcised penis.
You guys are always looking for a gripe or for a reason someone should not like their penis. Get over yourselves.
I find it hilarious how many of you flocked to this thread to voice your displeasure. This isnt a debate guys. Its a poll. A simple poll with simple questions that can be checked or not checked. If the majority of people were checking that they hated sex you would not have a problem with this poll. Really...get over yourselves and stop trying to convince circumcised men that what they have is no good.