Sex, big dicks, pain and morality

Incocknito

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Nice post.

And for the record I don't like "that type of rape". Haven't seen any rape going on. Maybe the closest I've seen is a Max Hardcore video. Not my thing but they do pop up from time to time. I avoid it now by not clicking porn which features guys in cowboy hats.

But even in Max Hardcore vids, the women are paid and apparently know what they are getting into. Some even like it.

And although some (most?) porn might be "degrading" to women, that isn't the same as rape. Some porn might be close to rape, or even be staged in such a way to appear to be rape. But it is not rape. These women know what they are getting into. They sign contracts, they receive money, they see a camera crew operating around them.
 

ManofThunder

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This thread quickly turned anti heterosexual male and het sex.

By the way there are many women here who enjoy that type of sex. It's why they're here. There are many gays/lesbians here who enjoy that type of sex. Many people here make money from engaging in that type of sex and sexual play.

The first video posted isn't rape. Not by a long fucking shot. It's not abuse either. It's two people in the heat of the moment having sex. She's starting to hurt and he can't stop. It happens. He's a jerk but it isn't rape. Know what else? She's more then likely going to try and get with him again.

Many women come after larger guys because they want to try it out and oft times will want to keep going despite telling the guy to stop.
Other times patience wears thin and a guy won't have time or want to spend a lot of time on foreplay.

Seems to me the only thing seperating what happened in the first post from rape is 30 minutes of oral.

Many on this site are outright if not subtly hostile towards straight guys with slightly above average penises. Men who have every right to be here.
And I honestly don't think that's fair.
If you don't like anything I've said in this post you can go fuck yourselves and or ban me.
I'll try to keep this short. If someone says stop, you should stop. You can't just guess and hope they don't mean it. Rape or not, you should respond to your partner. No means no. Stop means stop. It's simple. What do you mean, you can't stop? You can't be serious - you can always stop. It's a matter of choice. You choose not to stop. The responses aren't anti-heterosexual, they're anti-rape. There is a clear difference between rough sex and rape. None of us know the full context of the video but regardless of whether it was acting or 'roleplay' - you shouldn't be condoning the 'I can't stop' sort of behaviour and it shouldn't be viewed as 'hot'. It's dangerous. It tells people that it's fine to 'keep going' even if your partner says no. It's one step away from (if not already) rape.
 

D_Asston Kutcher

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And that's it.
Context. It's a case by case basis not a sweeping generalization.
If the person is in clear pain and the other person continues but they don't say stop or no then it's not rape. Is that what you're saying?
Cause I've seen some damned rough videos where it might as well have been rape and not a damn thing was uttered.

And not once did I claim it was hot although it can be. I merely said that people get caught up in the heat of the moment.

I also neglected to mention the women who say stop but really want a man to continue because of where that would take the entire conversation.
But I realize I should have because it would illustrate how some like to play up and enhance the submission and domination aspects of normal sex. But I honestly don't want to open that can of worms because of how quickly people will leap out of the woodwork and I don't have the fucking patience.

Here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to ignore every single thread, post, website and person who has any say on this and take it on a woman by woman basis. Ive had a decent amount of practice reading body language and the mood.
 

ManofThunder

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And that's it.
Context. It's a case by case basis not a sweeping generalization.
If the person is in clear pain and the other person continues but they don't say stop or no then it's not rape. Is that what you're saying?
Cause I've seen some damned rough videos where it might as well have been rape and not a damn thing was uttered.

And not once did I claim it was hot although it can be. I merely said that people get caught up in the heat of the moment.

I also neglected to mention the women who say stop but really want a man to continue because of where that would take the entire conversation.
But I realize I should have because it would illustrate how some like to play up and enhance the submission and domination aspects of normal sex. But I honestly don't want to open that can of worms because of how quickly people will leap out of the woodwork and I don't have the fucking patience.

Here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to ignore every single thread, post, website and person who has any say on this and take it on a woman by woman basis. Ive had a decent amount of practice reading body language and the mood.
You said, "She's starting to hurt and he can't stop. It happens." That's wrong. Why couldn't he choose to stop? Also, by saying, "it happens" you are basically suggesting that it's normal sexual behaviour. It's not. Let's say you're in a sexual relationship and your partner likes domination. That still doesn't allow you to rip-off their pants and 'do the deed' until you're satisfied. If they cry in pain, beg you to stop or are visually uncomfortable, the very least you can do is stop and check if they are ok. I'm not talking about sexual preference, I'm talking about common decency. That applies to a situation where you at least know something about your partner, their preferences and boundaries - if he 'can't stop' during a one-night stand, it may as well be rape. Viewers of that video could think that's typical sexual behaviour, when it's wrong on many levels. "He did it like that, so I can do it like that everytime." To some people, porn (amateur or not) is their only source of sex-education - it's important to remember that. Likewise, this site is an educational source to some people. The inexperienced could view the opinions expressed here as correct and good. I agree that everyone is different and context needs to be applied, but I can't sit back and allow seemingly nasty, rape-positive comments to be posted without response. This isn't all directed at you, but to the readers of the thread in general.
 

D_Kitten_Kaboodle

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This is a hot topic as shown by the responses... but to give you my personal opinion of your questions:


Instead I want us to discuss where the boarder between acceptable pain and unacceptable pain is. More specifically: if you are with a girl and she tells you it hurts, how is the sex to continue?
When you are having sex with a partner, you should have already discussed this issue before you get to the act. Yes, there are games people play... but both partners should be playing the same game. And if EVER there is a question about being unsure...then you stop... clarify... make sure there is no misunderstand. Some people are into pain and you should know this before you begin, as well as when to stop. (I'll say it again.. for ME..stop means stop)



We all know that some people don't feel like aborting the intercourse for various reasons (for instance psychological pressure), and in those cases the question is what kind of behaviour is acceptable? When do you cross the boarder between having sex that is slightly uncomfortable and actual abuse?
The legal definition of rape is "A criminal offense defined in most states as forcible sexual relations with a person against that person's will."
So, in answer to this question, IMO, you cross the border when the other person has let you know they are no longer playing, no longer having fun, and want you to stop. Looking for cues, if it begins as consensual sex, but progresses to rape, would be when they say "please, stop. I can't do this...hurry and end it...get it over with..." I think all of these are signs that it is no longer fun for the person. As in the case of the video, it appears to me that the guy just keeps pumping even after she asks him to stop. He says "ok" but keeps going.... This is not acceptable (in my book).




I found a video that made me feel really sad. It is a beautiful young girl and a black male. He is quite wellendowed and she is clearly in pain. She asks him, in a sad voice, to please finish up quickly since it hurts:

This cock is just too big for her

To me, that is a clear cut case of abuse no matter how you turn it.
I tend to agree with your thoughts on this.
That is NOT to say that I think every man with a big cock is misogynistic. I happen to like large penises (but not 'big dicks') I happen to think there are some really terrific large members here who really know how to treat their partners with respect, taking their time and ensuring a good experience for both parties.


What are your thoughts about this? How are we to single out cases of rape/abuse from just plain uncomfortable sex? How do we determine when a girl chooses freely to finish painful sex from cases where her consent should clearly inauthentic? And what kind of responsibility is on the guys shoulders? What is benign neglect, what is stupid neglect, and when does it become moraly abominable neglect?


This question cannot be answered by watching videos. We really have no idea what was going on behind the scenes and whether the girl was "acting" for the camera or not... that point was made earlier and I agree. But IMO, this video depicts sex gone wrong, whether it is acting or not.

In reality, you would know this from previous discussions with your partner, watching for verbal cues and body language. I really have no idea how I would respond if I found myself in this position, but I am most definitely more verbal than this girl in the vid... He would def be hearing more verbal cues. Including "get the hell off me now."

 

D_GlennFeckless

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I'm stunned and really, really concerned here. Are there truly that many people who think that the top here was right?

I don't give a damn if she said, "give me that big black cock and ram it until I bleed" beforehand. I don't give a damn if she took a dare, was being paid, sucked him for an hour, took him anally ten times previously, took him vaginally 100 times previously. Neither did she. She said "stop", repeatedly.

Once one of the partners doesn't want to do something, continued aggression on the part of the other is non-consensual. It doesn't matter if you're, gay, female, straight, stoned, bbc, or whatever. It doesn't matter if they say stop because it hurts, they've become too tired, have cum too much already, or are bored with you. Stop is very clear.

It is never the sole decision of one partner to override the wants of the other "in the heat of the moment" nor is it "hot". It's selfish, immature, illegal and immoral. It's called rape in most civilized societies. If you don't recognize that, you're setting yourself up to have to offer up your "heat of the moment" on the stand. Your attorney will advise against using that defense.

If this film was not a home-shot amateur film, but was professionally made in order to provoke these discussions, I applaud the talents of the actress and her director for such a convincing performance. If this was offered for sale on a porn site or as part of a compilation for the pleasure of those who get off on abuse, I categorize it along with Ginī Piggu: Chiniku no Hana. Definitely not for me.
 

dolfette

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The first video posted isn't rape. Not by a long fucking shot. It's not abuse either. It's two people in the heat of the moment having sex. She's starting to hurt and he can't stop. It happens. He's a jerk but it isn't rape. Know what else? She's more then likely going to try and get with him again.
not to decent people it doesn't.
of course he can stop.
you boohoo about feeling picked on as a het male but think 'it happens', like het men are all penis driven bastards without self control or morality.
for decent men it does not happen.
you insult het men far more than anyone else in this thread with your insinuation that they are all as shoddy as you are.
 

dolfette

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Once one of the partners doesn't want to do something, continued aggression on the part of the other is non-consensual. It doesn't matter if you're, gay, female, straight, stoned, bbc, or whatever. It doesn't matter if they say stop because it hurts, they've become too tired, have cum too much already, or are bored with you. Stop is very clear.
this should be the truth for everyone. the golden rule that everybody lives by.
 

LaFemme

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I'm stunned and really, really concerned here. Are there truly that many people who think that the top here was right?

I don't give a damn if she said, "give me that big black cock and ram it until I bleed" beforehand. I don't give a damn if she took a dare, was being paid, sucked him for an hour, took him anally ten times previously, took him vaginally 100 times previously. Neither did she. She said "stop", repeatedly.

Once one of the partners doesn't want to do something, continued aggression on the part of the other is non-consensual. It doesn't matter if you're, gay, female, straight, stoned, bbc, or whatever. It doesn't matter if they say stop because it hurts, they've become too tired, have cum too much already, or are bored with you. Stop is very clear.

It is never the sole decision of one partner to override the wants of the other "in the heat of the moment" nor is it "hot". It's selfish, immature, illegal and immoral. It's called rape in most civilized societies. If you don't recognize that, you're setting yourself up to have to offer up your "heat of the moment" on the stand. Your attorney will advise against using that defense.

If this film was not a home-shot amateur film, but was professionally made in order to provoke these discussions, I applaud the talents of the actress and her director for such a convincing performance. If this was offered for sale on a porn site or as part of a compilation for the pleasure of those who get off on abuse, I categorize it along with Ginī Piggu: Chiniku no Hana. Definitely not for me.

Thank you. And thank you to the other men who get it.
 

TheRob

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reguardless of how abusive you feel it is, if she keeps going back to him, she's into it
there is no other way to look at it
 

TheRob

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infact there is a gray area
you have NO IDEA if that's something she's into or not
you can't be psychic, for all you know before the scene she told him what safewords she'd use if she ACTUALLY wanted him to stop and didn't use them, you have no idea.


I'm sorry, but the lines of consent are black and white here. Once the words "stop" passed her lips consent was instantly retracted.

There is no gray area here.

I watched a small bit of the vid and that woman wanted him to stop. She looked afraid and overwhelmed. If she was putting on a show for the camera and faking that she wanted him to stop she would have kept facing the camera. As it were, she turned away into the fetal position.

Bbucko, I love you but I'm angry at your implication that the woman's pleas in the porn clip were fake. While it obviously started out consenting, this woman started feeling pain and wanted him to stop. He didn't and that's when it became assault. Again, I love you Bbuck, but it hurt my heart to read this.

Incocknito, you're insensitivity and misogyny are off the charts. Do the world of women a favor and stick with fleshlights and pocket pussies.

This is the type of shit that puts me off this place. There are some good folk here but there is too much misogyny, even unwitting or unintended.

"I wouldn't say that it was too big for the woman in that clip. She seemed to be able to take it."

Bend over, let's see how you do with it. Otherwise you can fuck right off.


"They are usually improvised, but that doesn't make what you see any less orchestrated as a result."

It doesn't make it less real either. What would it take for you to believe it's real?

"The woman is being paid not just to fuck on camera, but to emote in whatever way she's told to by the producers/directors."

Do you really think they would ask her to turn away and shield her body in the fetal position? Covering up body parts never has been porn's selling point.


Sexual Misconduct Prevention and Response Taskforce - Sexual Consent
 

TheRob

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she asked him to stop.
he didn't stop.
the next best option is for it to be over fast.

yah but she may not have wanted the sex to stop right then, she may have wanted him to stop going so deep
she obviously wasn't struggling and it's on film if she felt she was raped she could easily go to the police
people keep assuming a lot with this video
 

TheRob

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I have a safe word... "STOP"
I only use it when I want the guy to stop...

even in role play or fantasy... "stop" means stop!

I had seen this video in another thread and clicked... didn't watch it all... it made me ill.

the comments following indicated there are several guys here that enjoy this type of rape....that is really sad.

I'm sorry BBW36 is gone... she should have stayed and we should be saying goodbye to some other people instead.

yah well if you were in the video I'd say the guy was out of line, but since I don't know that the girl in the video dosn't have fantacies just like wha tis happening to her (and no one else knows that for sure either) it's idiotic to insist it's an evil video
for all you know she wants her safeword to be interest-rates!
I didn't hear her say interest-rates....
 

TheRob

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I'll try to keep this short. If someone says stop, you should stop. You can't just guess and hope they don't mean it. Rape or not, you should respond to your partner. No means no. Stop means stop. It's simple. What do you mean, you can't stop? You can't be serious - you can always stop. It's a matter of choice. You choose not to stop. The responses aren't anti-heterosexual, they're anti-rape. There is a clear difference between rough sex and rape. None of us know the full context of the video but regardless of whether it was acting or 'roleplay' - you shouldn't be condoning the 'I can't stop' sort of behaviour and it shouldn't be viewed as 'hot'. It's dangerous. It tells people that it's fine to 'keep going' even if your partner says no. It's one step away from (if not already) rape.

I'll say it again, you don't know the girl
this could be her fantacy
if Stop was the automatic safeword you wouldn't need a safeword, not everyone plays the same way
 

dolfette

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real or fake, i think this is dangerous ground for porn to tread. normalising the attitues that we've seen in this thread. ''she told him to stop. he couldn't. it happens.'' thinking.
 

TheRob

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not to decent people it doesn't.
of course he can stop.
you boohoo about feeling picked on as a het male but think 'it happens', like het men are all penis driven bastards without self control or morality.
for decent men it does not happen.
you insult het men far more than anyone else in this thread with your insinuation that they are all as shoddy as you are.

I agree
working under the assumption that she actually wants him to stop and they havn't worked out before hand that it's something she's into ((I recal a thread of yours I'd consider bringing up dolfette!)) then it's bullshit to say he just couldn't stop
maybe if I was in the middle of an orgasm or something and the girl was like stop I dunno I might not even hear her at that point