snip
OK, thanks for the clarification. I should have followed my own advice and been more careful in my reading of the material.
snip
hey no worries.OK, thanks for the clarification. I should have followed my own advice and been more careful in my reading of the material.
So we cool then?:redface:
http://www.lpsg.org/260634-racism-on-iloveinterracial-com.html
^^this thread. the OP makes some obviously racist comments, implies that black=low IQ=poverty, etc. i was really shocked that nothing was done.
i'm not posting this as another dig at the mods. i just want to illustrate that sometimes other forms of bigotry are allowed to slide. it's not just sexism.
the mods are just people. each has their own ideas. some people would prefer more policing, some people would prefer more free speech, all of them have to work together.
...that said, i do agree that misogyny is the most acceptable form of bigotry on the site.
stop having real livesThat report is still under discussion atm, I think recently we've had some problems with being able to deal with reports as swiftly as we might like, people's schedules have been really packed :wink:
A long time ago on this site, people would say racist things without meaning any harm. It pissed some of us off, but it wasn't taken particularly seriously until it was pointed out for long enough, and there were enough moderators who could see it and cared. At this point, people just know better, and when they do not, they are tossed out on their tushes. You seem to think that sexism is the only bigotry that can be expressed vaguely, the only kind of bigotry that can be harder to see by those not targeted. I disagree.How this whole 'Michaeldi23 business' is important to the general discussion of sexism on the site goes over my head to be honest. I understand what you're saying, but I don't think that one example should be concentrated on (by anyone). More broadly, in my opinion, there are sexist remarks made here all the time, and to some extent I think they are considered 'less important'. Let me explain what I mean by that (before it is misunderstood). Sometimes people say things without realising they are speaking to a person of the opposite sex (or mean no harm at all etc.), they may say a 'sexist remark' purely as an insult - which isn't right, but there's no sexist intent. To others this could be viewed as sexist, but if the moderators find the person meant no real offence, (in my mind) it may not be considered 'ban-worthy'. People often use more generalised, originally sexist remarks, as plain old insults or slang. (I could call another man a 'bitch', for example.) Anyway, my point is that in such cases, sexism can be viewed as 'less important' or at least harder to identify. If I say, "..all black people are scum.." there is no doubt that there's racist intent and I'd expect to be banned. But, "..suck my dick.." doesn't automatically mean I'm sexist. It's awkward, and I fear I've not explained myself well. But, I completely agree that people should never feel the need to 'put-up' with hatred and, when it happens, people are correct to respond negatively and report it. It's hard to find a balanced judgement between good and bad - everyone has different boundaries and are offended by different things. From my perspective, that's the hardest job for a moderator.
I should have explained myself more clearly, I apologise - hopefully I'll clear things up this time. Well, I do think many forms of bigotry can be expressed vaguely and consequently be harder to identify - I agree. Your example from the past of LPSG is interesting, but it's not (in itself) what I meant. You can hide anything if you try and some people won't see it. But, with something like racism, as soon as it is noticed (or pointed out by the members) it's dealt with harshly. My point, in rough terms, is that sexism and some 'sexist remarks' are considered 'less important' as they have evolved into regular insults and slang. As I said before, 'bitch' (for example) could be interpreted in many ways (as could other potentially sexist comments). The 'N-word' (for example) couldn't. Yes, you could argue that someone was 'being funny', but that word still holds a more concentrated meaning; a stigma is attached. In comparison and with additional shades of grey to consider, sexism can not only be harder to identify - but also harder to deal with. How should you punish someone for using, what was (in their mind) slang? In terms of other bigotry, people already know not to use certain words and phrases, even in jest. Sexism is, I'm afraid, viewed as a lesser of many evils.A long time ago on this site, people would say racist things without meaning any harm. It pissed some of us off, but it wasn't taken particularly seriously until it was pointed out for long enough, and there were enough moderators who could see it and cared. At this point, people just know better, and when they do not, they are tossed out on their tushes. You seem to think that sexism is the only bigotry that can be expressed vaguely, the only kind of bigotry that can be harder to see by those not targeted. I disagree.
I agree with those who say that this current crop of moderators are the best (as a team) we have had. I find that if members report a post/poster en masse, the team follows up on the reports. Despite their schedules, I usually do hear back from them. When I do not, I do see updates in the Moderator Actions thread. However, while sexism is still a big problem here (directed at men and women alike, if more often at women) I'm largely satisfied with the way it has been treated in the last few months. I think we are almost (but still not quite) at the point where misogyny and sexism are treated exactly like other forms of hatred here.
I would still love to hear what more moderators think.
Sexism is, I'm afraid, viewed as a lesser of many evils.
By whom?
Those who objectify women positively in their own minds as well those who do so negatively.
To answer your question; people. People in general - society, I suppose. In my experience, sexism is viewed as more of a niche (if you see what I mean). It's not alone in that 'lesser' category. Ageism is the same. People have discriminated against me based purely on age. You're either 'too young' or 'too old' to understand or be able to properly respond to something. I reported it (in real life) and nothing happened - my 'petty' claim wasn't worth the trouble. Meanwhile, claims of racism shook the work-place. Racism and sexual orientation discrimination are at the top of the priority list. Let me clarify that I don't believe there are lesser-types of bigotry, I'm merely saying that some view certain bigotry as 'lesser'. I'm not suggesting anything is completely ignored, but (because of this 'lesser' attitude held by some) it's not dealt with as swiftly. Also, to some people, 'sexism' means discrimination against women - this can lead to reverse discrimination against men, adding a further complication. For example, faux-feminists or 'man-haters' (as I've heard them so fondly called) are themselves sexist and give the wrong impression. This can split people into two distinct groups once more, meaning no progress. I'm not claiming to be an expert, but sexism is not as black and white as racism, for example. To identify (or identify with) sexism, ageism and other potentially 'less-obvious' types of bigotry - people sometimes have to think and read between the lines. Thinking is too much for some people, the problem needs to jump-up and bite them on the arse for anything to get done about it. We haven't been conditioned against sexism to the same extent as racism, there still isn't that semi-instinctive fear of being branded a racist (or racist sympathiser) involved.By whom?
Again, let me clarify that I don't believe it is a 'lesser' evil. But, there are people in positions of (at least some) power who do think this way. As I've said in my reply to Ms Banisters, there isn't that 'fear' involved and, for some people, fear is needed to move forward. I'm only trying to add as many dimensions as possible to the discussion.MOT, I understood you. I disagree that it is a lesser evil, whether some choose to think of it that way or not.
Is there truly a way of objectifying any person, or group of people, positively?
Well put. Simply don't play with or feed the trolls! Report them.I know, it sounds like I'm trying to speak to you all like you're children, I'm honestly not though... All of the above serves to make things clearer for the moderator team. One bad comment in a thread stands out for what it is far easier than three pages of back and forth where each person appears to add fuel to the fire. We act faster when we don't have to wade through pages to find out what happened and who else did what, and there are far fewer casualties when others don't have to be spoken to in order to keep things fair.
Well put. Simply don't play with or feed the trolls! Report them.
I think that there are some important distinctions to be made. Having a rant about a general trait in a group is not hate speak IMO, inheriting a cultural prejudice is not a hate crime, we all have these, some wish to expunge them, some don't but some wish to promote them. These guys are the real problem.