Sexism - a cacophony of silence from the Mod team.

Drifterwood

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Firstly Drifter if you want to continue to bang the Why was VB banned?-drum there's a thread for that, use it.

Completely wrong - no I don't.

Secondly the above quote is evidence of an attitude which sees cultural prejudice as acceptable. It isn't.

You say acceptable, I say comprehendable. You are rather too quick to put words into people's mouths.

And having a rant about a general trait in a group is actually hate speech, like it or not. If you post a rant about how Women are all liars, that's hate speech. If you post a rant that Muslims all beat their wives that is hate speech. If you post a rant about Gays being promiscuous, that is hate speech.

These are all examples of exactly what you're describing. Like it or not.

You are wearing your knickers about four inches too high. Especially when you have on several occasions posted general questions about straight men.

You clearly do not understand people very well. The entire world makes generalisations. It's just too easy and generally people don't mean too much harm by it, though I have no problem with pointing out the downsides as well.

There is clearly a difference between having a rant about something that affects you personally - "why do customer services people talk with such stupid fucking inflection?" - and saying "faggots should be horsewhipped."

We have had plenty of topics about what pisses you off about the opposite sex etc etc - are all these hate speak? Hate speak needs to intentionally promote hatred. The rest of the world hasn't quite caught up with our level of pcness, I don't think we should crucify them for that, especially if we still have a few spots in our own eyes.
 

D_Tim McGnaw

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You are wearing your knickers about four inches too high. Especially when you have on several occasions posted general questions about straight men.

You clearly do not understand people very well. The entire world makes generalisations. It's just too easy and generally people don't mean too much harm by it, though I have no problem with pointing out the downsides as well.

There is clearly a difference between having a rant about something that affects you personally - "why do customer services people talk with such stupid fucking inflection?" - and saying "faggots should be horsewhipped."

We have had plenty of topics about what pisses you off about the opposite sex etc etc - are all these hate speak? Hate speak needs to intentionally promote hatred. The rest of the world hasn't quite caught up with our level of pcness, I don't think we should crucify them for that, especially if we still have a few spots in our own eyes.




I'm not even going to post what I think of this. That you make some kind of pathetic attempt to make me out a hypocrite for having in your very own words asked questions about straight men is risible.


Srsly, I'm going to absolutely bite my tongue right now. :rolleyes:
 
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Drifterwood

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I'm not even going to post what I think of this. That you make some kind of pathetic attempt to make me out a hypocrite for having in your very own words asked questions about straight men is pathetic.


Srsly, I'm going to absolutely bite my tongue right now. :rolleyes:

Good - I gave you the benefit when I said asked this time, when I took up your apparent prejudices (apparent to me) you got extremely pissy.
 

Kotchanski

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An example of why sexism is often harder to deal with than the other isms...

Yesterday, I was commenting on some article or something, where by I had concerns for the safety of the woman involved. While commenting, I said something along the lines of "They could easily find the poor bitch from all that information"

I was called on my use of "poor bitch" and essentially told I was being sexist.

Now I can't say if this is common throughout the whole of the UK, but certainly in the parts I've lived "poor bitch" and "poor bastard" are in no way meant in a derogatory manner, and are simply methods of conveying your concern and/or pity for the person and their situation, often used when one is either lost for words, or wishes to convey those feelings without leaving themselves open to further discussion.

I happened to be talking to someone who wasn't from the UK, and we discussed my intended meaning, and the meaning it generally carries (in my experience at least) over here, and they explained how it would be seen if said where they come from... the two really couldn't have been any further apart if they tried.

If this had happened here, would I have been reported? I don't know, we have members from all over the world, and while many of you know me and would know that it was not meant in any derogatory way, others wouldn't and would probably have reported it. Would the mod team have taken it seriously? Again, I don't know... the team covers different parts of the world, with additional experiences of having lived or travelled extensively outside of their own countries.

I don't feel bad for using a term deemed sexist in some parts of the world. I've not been to those parts and had no idea that something deemed so harmless and used so commonly would cause such offence. I would however think twice about using it again around those who come from different backgrounds who don't know me well enough to make the positive assumption.

Terms that are universally accepted as being "ist" are easy to deal with. Calling some a "N" is going to get you our attention. Many of the terms used when it comes to sexism however aren't universal. Likewise, terms like the "N" word, even when applied to an individual, target an entire group, where as calling someone a cunt, bitch or whore doesn't, they are words used to describe how one person feels about another person, and unless something is added to suggest this is based solely on them being part of a specific group, sexism doesn't apply, personal attack sure as hell does though, which is why we've asked that these things be reported and not responded to if you want something done about it, because joining in on the personal attacks signs away your rights to complain about it.
 

ManlyBanisters

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All right, gents - handbags down and step back a minute, please.

I dislike seeing two people I'm so fond of argue over what essentially, to me anyway, appears to be semantics.

Drifter - hilaire is one of the least prejudiced people I have ever met.

hilaire - Drifter is one of the most accepting people I know.

You have a lot in common.
 

Drifterwood

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OK so are you trying to bait me into actually telling you what I think of you and your "opinions"? :rolleyes:

It's an adult forum, d'uh :eek:

But to be very honest - I am not interested in what you think. Far too often you use other people's comments to promote your own views rather than examine theirs honestly.

This thread is about dealing with sexism. I believe that you should accept the difficulty that exists in expunging inherited prejudice. It's all very well being the white knight, but it doesn't really help clear the problem.

Should people receive a sanction for a sexist remark (and I definitely mean sexist on at least a three way street) or should we distinguish this from misogyny which I would classify as hate speak and the promotion of hatred.

Please let's not have a Robespierre PC inquisition.
 

D_Tim McGnaw

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It's an adult forum, d'uh :eek:

But to be very honest - I am not interested in what you think. Far too often you use other people's comments to promote your own views rather than examine theirs honestly.

This thread is about dealing with sexism. I believe that you should accept the difficulty that exists in expunging inherited prejudice. It's all very well being the white knight, but it doesn't really help clear the problem.

Should people receive a sanction for a sexist remark (and I definitely mean sexist on at least a three way street) or should we distinguish this from misogyny which I would classify as hate speak and the promotion of hatred.

Please let's not have a Robespierre PC inquisition.





Like I say, I'll be the bigger man and keep my opinion of you to myself. I haven't really even given my own opinion on this subject yet in this thread so your claims about me are false.

Just be thankful that as a member you have such a breadth of latitude in attacking me and that I recognise my responsibility to listen to you and take on board your view no matter how much it conflicts with my own.
 

vince

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I don't fully agree with this. It is the new mantra, but in the past on this site, people took on trolls, and more importantly, people with undesirable views head on and with few holds barred.

I have to say that I liked this. It is an adult site and if you wanted to spout your shit, you needed to be prepared to defend yourself and when you couldn't in 99.99% of the cases, you went down in flames.

Several rsepected members have suffered bans and temp bans for doing this where perhaps they have not sufficiently moderated their language or have been deemed to have been too aggressive.
The guideline that has been given out is that if you want to duke it out, go for it. Just don't come running for some moderation after you chose to engage. If you feel you are being unfairly treated and haven't fought back and done as bad or worse than your opponent, you can report it and if the mods think you are right, some action will happen. It is meant to find a middle way between a fully Nanny State PC website which would be impractical, not mention boring and a free for all un-moderated slap fest. We all saw first hand what happens when that model is used. Everyone did nothing but spout shit and defend it. It was useless from the start and quickly became tedious and the whole thing went down in flames.


It's way of giving members another choice other than "suck it up or piss off".

The issue which MB is driving home and is receiving a lot of support over from many of the women, is that there seems to be a bit of a pecking order going on. Racism, antisemitism and homophobia, do not pass go, do not collect $200, misogyny mmh well, not on but there might be a reasonable explanation, slinging mud at Muslims yeehaw...........
I agree and it is reflected in society at large. People here and the mods need to make a greater effort to deal with all the isms.


I think that there are some important distinctions to be made. Having a rant about a general trait in a group is not hate speak IMO, inheriting a cultural prejudice is not a hate crime, we all have these, some wish to expunge them, some don't but some wish to promote them. These guys are the real problem.
Yeah those guys are the real problem and as I wrote before, some of them are really clever at doing it while not seeming to. But those of us in the former group don't get a free ride to rant against groups either. Even if it is a cultural inheritance, most of us know better. It isn't a crime against humanity, but it can be hurtful. As I've gotten older I wish I would have kept my own mouth shut a few times in the past, because Germans and Englishmen have feelings too. ;)
 

ManlyBanisters

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The guideline that has been given out is that if you want to duke it out, go for it. Just don't come running for some moderation after you chose to engage.

Wait, so some bloke asks a silly 'look at my peen' / 'give me wank fodder' thread in Women's issues, myself and (let's say) MickeyLee, post a 'not a women's issue, PFO' type response, he comes back with 'what do you expect on a big cock website?' - I answer 'oh, go blow it out your hole', ML tells him to stop being a predictable arse, or some such - he comes back with 'Listen cunts, you should all suck my big fat cock - any women who posts at LPSG is a pathetic cock slut and should be arse-fucked into submission if she disagrees with a man'.

Are you telling me that neither ML nor I can't report that last post? Or rather we can but should not expect the mod team to act?

Because I read those don't engage guidelines and that is NOT what I took away from them. Perhaps I was mistaken.
 

HappyBoi

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sorry to hear you're twice upset, but give it time and i'm sure everything will become clear.

it's not like mods do this for a living or anything. I mean, we all goof now an then, and i'm sure they try to do their best.


I didn't have the energy to read the entire thread, but I see threads like these pop up from time to time. As soon as I read the post which I'm quoting, I felt "THIS!".

Especially the latter part. The mods do this on their spare time with no money gained for their work or time spent on this website (I think?). I barely think they can use it as any kind of CV-creds either.

"I was a mod on an internet-community".
"Oh really, which one?".
"Oh.. you know.. one of those huge dicks-worshipping type of things".

Maybe they can. I wouldn't. But that's beside the point. And to expect an answer or solution within 36 hours seems a bit harsch, they should be allowed the same, slow response-time that the court of law has to "judge things". :tongue: Or maybe the IRS..

"Fill this form and we'll look into it in about 4-30 weeks". :biggrin1:



Oh, to end on a less serious note: When I read something about "Are we ladies suppose to.. ... .. ... .. and just get our tits out?" I was like NO! NO! OMG PLEASE NO! Just me? :tongue:
 
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Kotchanski

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Wait, so some bloke asks a silly 'look at my peen' / 'give me wank fodder' thread in Women's issues, myself and (let's say) MickeyLee, post a 'not a women's issue, PFO' type response, he comes back with 'what do you expect on a big cock website?' - I answer 'oh, go blow it out your hole', ML tells him to stop being a predictable arse, or some such - he comes back with 'Listen cunts, you should all suck my big fat cock - any women who posts at LPSG is a pathetic cock slut and should be arse-fucked into submission if she disagrees with a man'.

Are you telling me that neither ML nor I can't report that last post? Or rather we can but should not expect the mod team to act?

Because I read those don't engage guidelines and that is NOT what I took away from them. Perhaps I was mistaken.

I wrote those guidelines, and in the extreme you've given as an example, you would have every right to report the "individual" and we would act.

I'll explain:

Firstly, while your comments weren't as nice as they could have been, they were pretty tame and not something we'd have really taken all that seriously had they been reported as stand alone comments.

Secondly, his comment was in direct retaliation to what you'd both said. He took it further and upped it to sexism/misogyny when he opted to not make it personal about either of you, and instead throw it at all women. This somewhat nullifies the "personal attack" rules.

Had he made the same level of attack, aimed specifically at you, ML or both, we would still act due to the huge distance between what both sides said, but the rules would apply... It would need to be reported by at least one of the people it was directed at, and that person would need to have refrained from replying in the same manner (rather than replying and essentially giving the green light for more similar attacks)
 

ManlyBanisters

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Hey, HappyBoi, if you have nothing intelligent of empathetic to add to the actual thread topic do think you fuck off, please?

Thanks ever so.

And as for your 'I don't waaaant to see naaasty tittieeeeeeees!' comment - totally unnecessary and very small minded. Way to go, you. :rolleyes:
 

HappyBoi

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Hey, HappyBoi, if you have nothing intelligent of empathetic to add to the actual thread topic do think you fuck off, please?

Thanks ever so.

And as for your 'I don't waaaant to see naaasty tittieeeeeeees!' comment - totally unnecessary and very small minded. Way to go, you. :rolleyes:

You start a thread about sexism because you felt attacked by another member. Now you yourself turn to offensive language and personal attacks.

Before you 'cry wolf' when others treat you wrong, maybe you should take an extra hard, long look at yourself and your own actions towards other people.

Luckily I'm comfortable enough with myself that I don't feel the need to give you hurtful comments in response. :)
 

ManlyBanisters

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I didn't 'cry wolf' - do you even know what that means?

I reported an incident - the mods thought it worth a reaction and, rather courteously, gave me some information about that reaction - However that info did not gel with what the antagonist published about his interaction with the mods. So I asked a question? It went ignored, so I asked again in public.

Please explain to me what part of that is 'crying wolf'?

ETA: No - you didn't attack me personally, instead you chose to attack all women by saying 'eeeyoooooo, nasty titties, ick-ick-ick' which is a much more responsible and adult thing to post in a discussion on sexism, isn't it? :rolleyes:

ETA2: Your comment was small minded and unnecessary. There is no question in my mind about the veracity of that. But you'll note that the 'attack' on me (by Michaeldi23) was based on my sex, not what I said - whereas the 'attack' on you (by me) was based soley and completely on what you said. I didn't attack your sex, your race, your nationality, your sexuality. And I certainly didn't attack people of your general appearance because I don't happen to find that appearance attractive - nope, that, apparently, is your remit.
 
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Hoss

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okay, time for another question.

Often times I see sexual banter going back and forth between members and another member enters in, sometimes a long time member sometimes a newbie or 1 that has troll traits, some of these banters then turn nasty and even before then, some of the back and forths have decidedly sexist tones to them. How can it always be known that the statements are laced with sexism when a member is branded as having made such statements? How much does context come in and how is it when viewed within a thread?

I ask because I see statements at times (here and at other boards) which seem sexist, bigoted etc. and depending who delivers them they seem to get overlooked.....even by members that are upset when certain others say the exact same things.