Sexual Identities

liquiss

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I have a question, and I mean this with the least amount of ignorance that I can possibly muster. Also, to preface, this isn’t a women’s issue per say, but there’s enough sexually eclectic regulars on this sub-forum that I figured I’d post it here anyways. Plus we can have a respectful discussion here, and I’m not confident that’s the same in all other sub-forums.

I don’t understand why we need to have 6,000 different titles describing sexual preference. I’m looking for some insight from people that consider themselves something other than the progressive “traditional” labels (straight, gay, bisexual). In my mind, those three cover all of the bases. Again, not trying to be ignorant here.

Let me give an example. If you’re bisexual, by definition you’re attracted to both sexes. Why then would we need a title to define people that are also attracted to individuals who are transitioning/transitioned? If you’re already attracted to both sexes, why do you care what sex a potential partner was born as?

I just don’t get why there’s so many definitions that are - at least in my mind - describing the same preferences. Anyone who knows me knows that I have the utmost respect for everyone, regardless of imposed labels or preferences, so I’m absolutely not trying to come at this from a position of attacking a label, I’m just trying to better understand why we need to further define sexual preferences beyond the older definitions. If nothing else, this might help me better understand so I don’t have to keep googling shit to understand what the fuck it is.
 
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LaFemme

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I think because people like to say, “hey, that describes me!”

I teach an introductory course on LGBTQ2S+, and that question comes up all the time. I show a video in which a young woman struggled with her identity for a long time. Was she heterosexual? Was she a lesbian? Was she asexual? Finally, she discovered the term demi-sexual. Technically, yes she’s attracted to both sexes, but she goes a long periods of time with no sexual attractions at all to anyone. But when she meets someone she really likes, her sexual attraction returns. “Hey, that’s me!”

I think people don’t want to feel alone. Those orientations let people know that there are others that feel the same way they do. Others who feel no attraction unless the person is extremely intelligent (sapisexual), etc.

At least that’s the way I teach it. Others may have other opinions.
 

liquiss

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But I mean that’s a long road to go down. If we want to define a term for every single trait that leads to attraction I’m sure we could come up with hundreds of them.

I’m going to actually be a little ignorant here, but it all feels very “millennial” to me. Like everyone has to have their own special title.
I think it just muddies the waters when it comes to this conversation. If we want to continue to work towards greater acceptance and being more progressive as a society, i don’t know if making the terminology overly complicated hinders or helps.
 

liquiss

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I think people don’t want to feel alone. Those orientations let people know that there are others that feel the same way they do. Others who feel no attraction unless the person is extremely intelligent (sapisexual), etc.

I think what you said here is very important, and frankly is probably the best answer to my question. I still have concerns about the over complication leading to difficulties with more broad acceptance societally, but in fairness that problem will become less of a concern with time, and the younger generations being exposed to a wider variety of sexual preference definitions will breed familiarity.
 
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I would say that labels can be helpful in identifying and categorizing things. But like anything else, it can be taken too far. Too many can get to be overwhelming and confusing.

For example, I would categorize myself as bisexual. But admittedly, there are many labels I've heard that I find rather arcane. Recently I'd heard someone refer to themselves as a dacryphile. I looked it up and evidently it is someone who gets off on tears/emotional suffering. That one seems to be like it could fall into the category of sadism. Or a subset, if you will. Having been on Fetlife before (an excellent repository of fetish and sexuality information), I found there's hundreds if not thousands of sexual fetishes and categories.
 

Mule

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Let me give an example. If you’re bisexual, by definition you’re attracted to both sexes. Why then would we need a title to define people that are also attracted to individuals who are transitioning/transitioned? If you’re already attracted to both sexes, why do you care what sex a potential partner was born as?

There are a lot of people who identify as bisexual but not pansexual because they are not attracted to trans people. It's usually because they have some kind of a hang-up about it. For me, the term "pansexual" is useful because it allows those of us who are attracted to all genders to signal their acceptance to people who are used to being rejected or worse due to their gender identity.
 

Scarletbegonia

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Mule has it.
We are talking about not only sexual identity, but gender identity.
So, with male, female, non binary, gay, straight, and bi/pan (I see bisexual as binary, pan as non. Just my take) still makes a lot of combos.
Add the confused landing on a label as they work it out, and you get a lot of shades of grey.

yes, I think this generation coming up has a lot of labels for each distinction, but I’d rather see inclusion with a dictionary than exclusion with a post it note.
 

AlteredEgo

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Not only feeling less alone, but also having vocabulary for helping others understand oneself better. Inclusivity in language promotes community. Not only does one feel less isolated by being able to identify with a specific group, but one can understand others and seek understanding from others with more nuanced language.
 
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This thread has been enlightening. I'm very straight, but also very accepting. My position has always been "love who you love and don't force your views on others". Provided activities are between two consenting adults, I could give a flying flip what you do and who you're with. I genuinely want people to find mutual affection, respect, and love. Across the board. Like liquiss, I didn't understand the need for all these labels, but also didn't really care because someone's label wouldn't affect how I viewed/respected them. This thread taught me something.

In addition to LaFemme's "Hey, that's me", piece, I think the important piece for me is
in fairness that problem will become less of a concern with time, and the younger generations being exposed to a wider variety of sexual preference definitions will breed familiarity.
provided the familiarity leads to acceptance.
 

liquiss

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Allow people to identify themselves as they see fit. We have lived long enough by forcing people into labels that were never accurate for them.

While I agree with your message, I don’t think your comment is fair. I don’t think anyone here is trying to force anyone into labels that aren’t accurate, and I can only speak for myself here I suppose, but I was just trying to understand the necessity. I was just trying to come from a place of being genuine and trying to gain a better understanding, not trying to force a square peg into a circle hole.

The thing that I had struggled with understanding was my example of bi being a catch all for both genders. I was talking about this same topic with my wife and she commented as an example that someone who is bisexual might have hang ups about a trans partner that hasn’t fully transitioned, and I hadn’t considered that angle.

As lurker said above, I’m all for “live and let live”. Just because I want a better understanding of why something is necessary doesn’t mean I’m not accepting people for who they are.
 
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Skinny Manny

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I have a question, and I mean this with the least amount of ignorance that I can possibly muster. Also, to preface, this isn’t a women’s issue per say, but there’s enough sexually eclectic regulars on this sub-forum that I figured I’d post it here anyways. Plus we can have a respectful discussion here, and I’m not confident that’s the same in all other sub-forums.

I don’t understand why we need to have 6,000 different titles describing sexual preference. I’m looking for some insight from people that consider themselves something other than the progressive “traditional” labels (straight, gay, bisexual). In my mind, those three cover all of the bases. Again, not trying to be ignorant here.

Let me give an example. If you’re bisexual, by definition you’re attracted to both sexes. Why then would we need a title to define people that are also attracted to individuals who are transitioning/transitioned? If you’re already attracted to both sexes, why do you care what sex a potential partner was born as?

I just don’t get why there’s so many definitions that are - at least in my mind - describing the same preferences. Anyone who knows me knows that I have the utmost respect for everyone, regardless of imposed labels or preferences, so I’m absolutely not trying to come at this from a position of attacking a label, I’m just trying to better understand why we need to further define sexual preferences beyond the older definitions. If nothing else, this might help me better understand so I don’t have to keep googling shit to understand what the fuck it is.

I'm certainly with you. Labels in general are silly to me; either you're good or bad. Other than that, I don't care. Personally, I don't fit any labels I've seen. I'm physically attracted to women, but I DO like dicks. Made for an interesting life! So, I guess an appropriate label for me is "queer". I admit to feeling uncomfortable around "flamers" but maybe that's because I was raised in the 1950s. Extremism in anything makes me uncomfortable. How's that? smile.jpg
 

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Sometimes people have a narrow view of the world and labeling someone helps you fit into their framework. I'm 50 years old, and I've been with 2 women in my life. To some family members that makes me bisexual. Being bisexual makes it easier for them to accept me. In some weird way, it's less of a sin, and far less nasty than being gay. When I told an older relative that I've had sex with over 100 men, I've been with my husband for 11 years and married to him for 5, it doesn't make any difference. I've slept with two women so that makes me bisexual.

Whatever. I'm a gay man, and how I perceive myself is all that matters. You do YOU and forget what anyone else thinks you are.
 

Scarletbegonia

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Sometimes people have a narrow view of the world and labeling someone helps you fit into their framework. I'm 50 years old, and I've been with 2 women in my life. To some family members that makes me bisexual. Being bisexual makes it easier for them to accept me. In some weird way, it's less of a sin, and far less nasty than being gay. When I told an older relative that I've had sex with over 100 men, I've been with my husband for 11 years and married to him for 5, it doesn't make any difference. I've slept with two women so that makes me bisexual.

Whatever. I'm a gay man, and how I perceive myself is all that matters. You do YOU and forget what anyone else thinks you are.

mind if I ask a hair splitting question?
If you have been attracted to those couple of women sexually, despite your strong preference for men, aren’t you technically attracted to males and females? Or were they outliers?
I come from words. I was a reporter. In words only, I’d also think bisexual, and that would have to better/worse than het or homosexuality. It’s just.....inclusive.
 

Infernal

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mind if I ask a hair splitting question?
If you have been attracted to those couple of women sexually, despite your strong preference for men, aren’t you technically attracted to males and females? Or were they outliers?
I come from words. I was a reporter. In words only, I’d also think bisexual, and that would have to better/worse than het or homosexuality. It’s just.....inclusive.

The opportunity presented itself and I took it. It was situational, not really a matter of attraction or desire. I appreciate the beauty of the female body, but I don't desire or pursue women for sex. Unlike a friend of mine who turned green if I said the word vagina, my lack of desire doesn't preclude me from functioning. That was just a matter of friction. At this point in my life, even if the opportunity presented itself, I doubt I would take it.

I get what you're saying and in the purest sense, maybe bisexual is applicable, but it does split hairs. I became sexually active in my late teens. The experiences with women were decades apart. One at the age of 20, the other at 32. When you compare those two women to a hundred + men where exactly does the balance tip from being gay to being bisexual? With that question in mind, I listed my percentage as 99%gay, 1% straight. I own that, but I still consider myself a gay man.
 

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I know this is an old thread but i feel what i'm about to say is relevant and important. Because of course i do. Everyone does. Anyway, I think the many labels we've created are more a way to get away from stigmas that only exist because of how people view the lgbtq community in general than it being a millennial i'm special thing. With a dash of confusion when it comes to gender roles.

To me gender roles don't exist. Masculinity and femininity as described and referred to don't actually exist in any concrete way. Women don't have ownership over femininity just like men don't have ownership over masculinity. Along with everything we think follows with it.

When people date they say oh i don't want a masculine/feminine person. Which just means they don't want a person who acts in a certain way. A certain way they've tied to other values. Masculine = strong. Feminine = not strong. And as we can see right off the bat women fall directly into a negative category. We think we need simplicity. Up, down, left or right. If one thing is blank then the other has to be the opposite.

Which has translated into the lgbtq community.

In the form of gay men not liking flamboyant gay men. Tops and bottoms. Instead of using certain words that aren't directly tied to masculinity and femininity words tied to those have been. Influencing people to see each other in very specific ways before actually getting to know each other.

Check this out.

https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2020-06604-001

[ Attributing a social identity to God predicts perceiving individuals who share that identity as more fit for leadership. ]

Something so simple as that. Can and does ripple through the rest of our actions. Just an image. Something created long before we were born.

Look at this site for instance. How many men on this site could have been served by just putting bisexual? How much confusion could that have ended? All adding percentages did was allow men to have even more places to post than they were allowed to before. But it also allows them not to have to deal with the labels gay or bisexual. To which a lot don't like one bit. And would probably protest against gay and bisexual being adopted.

When it comes to asexual and a few others i don't think what i'm saying applies. It takes a lot to admit those. Though there has been a very long history of gay and bisexual men not wanting to let on they are gay or bisexual because it might endanger their lives. Which is more than understandable.

At the same time doing that helps further give the impression that something is inherently wrong with being gay or bisexual. Which then leaks into many other areas. Leading others to also not want to be considered gay or bi. It's not anywhere near the same issue with lesbians or bisexual women. Though it does exist.

So i'm thinking it's partly confusion of what gender roles actually are, the general feeling that somehow gender roles are assigned (and that a woman being masculine is somehow wrong like a man being feminine is somehow also wrong) and exist along with there still being massive disapproval of the lgbtq community to begin with. Even in the lgbtq community.

Could be wrong but i think people try to get away from the created stigma around the lgbtq community by way of new labels/percentages. In doing so things seem easier. More manageable. Safer even.

Instead of them running into the spotlight. The different labels are them running away from it.

Could be very very wrong though.