sexual racism

[D_Martin van Burden]

If my mom, a white woman, didn't call my dad, a black man, the love of his life, then I wouldn't be around today.

I'm not sure if sexual racism is something entirely contemporary or if it's been around for a while. I just remember not really running into a problem with dating white girls or black girls pretty much all the way through high school. It wasn't until college that my gay roommate told me flat out that he wouldn't touch a black man sexually with a ten-foot pole. Guess what? My roommate was half-black, half-Asian (and 200% obnoxious).

In figuring out why exactly the Anglo-American standard is the icon of beauty in contemporary times, check out Peiss' book Hope in a Jar. I don't remember the argument in full detail, but she made a lot of references to the proliferation of advertising and how it has trended strongly toward white. Think of that, and the few times we get strong, beautiful black models to cross over into that. There's another article I read for my critical race class called "No fats, no fems, no Asians" that talks about negative white-Asian contact with regard to dating and mating.

Personally, I think it's pretty telling to have to say "I'm not a racist," throw a "but" in there, and then list racial preferences as if it's an issue of hair color or texture or mannerism or something. People like that, and John Mayer's douchey article about Kerry Washington, just seals the deal.

White people who really do feel that way have to keep reminding themselves that this sort of discrimination isn't like others: that dating preferences have nothing to do with friendships or harboring stereotypes, etc., etc. "I love my [insert race group] friends!" Right, the one or two you choose to fraternize with, usually coupled with "You're not like [insert racial stereotype members of the same race]."

I'm thankful because I have only dealt with this problem. Apparently, being kinda tan and having a certain hair texture means I'm "too black" for some suitors. Okay, that's cool; I bet you give terrible head and you're not worth taking home to Mom. Comme ci, comme ca. I just shrug. What can you do? You can't really fix people. If I really feel like a dick, I'll make a smart remark about how it feels to be racist and that just sends the offending party into a furor and I'll just walk away laughing.

It's okay. I don't value stupidity and I don't care if you look like Angelina Jolie OR Halle Berry. There ya go.

 

[Mastur]

I say, fuck whomever you like and leave others to do the same.

 

[D_Martin van Burden]

I would also challenge posters to this thread to be really careful about mixing up certain types of preferences. Saying you date members of a specific race is not the same type of preference as preferring chicken or beef, preferring men or women (though I suppose that's only relevant to people who date both sexes), or preferring certain body types, hair colors, skin tones, dressing styles, and so on.

Most of those things are mutable. You can eat from a different diet. You have some control over your build and appearance, depending on your thoughts about exercising and eating well. You can work out hard. You can dye your hair and wear colored contacts. You can have someone dress you. What you can't do is change your race. Perhaps you can play into or overtly reject stereotypical behaviors associated with a race, but you're going to go to bed and wake up with the same racial makeup.

(Honestly, the only thing you could do about that is move to France where they don't keep track of race in their demographic statistics, or to countries where brown persons are in the demographic and political majority.)

I can say, honestly, that I have tried to diminish my blackness if I felt like it would be problematic for people that I have associated with. (Thankfully, I got over this.) Online dating is the worst because you can't really divine race from a picture. If asked, I would either say "mixed" or specifically "Greek," which both elicited their shares of ooohs and aaahhs.

If I felt particularly indignant, I would refuse to answer ethnicity, state that it's no one's business, or I would accuse the other person of making a big deal about it. I have also heard from gay friends of color that I have had over the years that everything was just fine and dandy until it came to the race question, as if everything regarding build, mannerisms, hobbies, and dick size, and sexual compatibility were great, oh but shit, you're black. Game over.

On top of that, if I get dressed up and straighten my hair (friends here have seen those pictures on Facebook), then it's much more difficulty to assume my race. I've heard everything from Indian to Hispanic to Latin American to Northern African. All of which make me chuckle, by the way.

I think it's more telling that, when pressed, people who have these preferences that usually fall sharply upon racial lines have a fairly minimal response. "It's just what I'm into." "I'm not a racist!" "I can't help what I like." Maybe you can; maybe you can't. You just have to be honest about the ramifications of having these preferences, especially if it means that you give up otherwise suitable mates just because you have a hang-up about complexion.

 

[B_bxmuscle]

Yes, sexual racism does exist and it's different from a preference. Sexual racism is exclusionary, with no or very rare exceptions. It can be either an absolutist rejection of specific groups, or fetishistic sexual objectification of another group. Preferences are real but are usually more flexible and open. The racism of sexual racists can be contained to sexual things (at least consciously), and is often hidden under the guise of " a preference," especially among so-called "progressives" or liberals.

So-called progressives preach an ideology of diversity and freedom of choice, a mask behind with other other motivations can be hidden without being seriously questioned or examined by those who in principle accept these values. But it is just that, a mask.

 

[AngelComa]

Which is why AngelComa is so open to socializing with/dating/fucking other races, right?

Let him answer, will you?

Easy now...you're making a fool of yourself. Please do not assume that by taking pride in my heritage, that I am taking a stand against yours. I do not know you and would like to remind you that you know just as much about me. I will not respond to any other messages from you, public or otherwise.

Thank you.

 

[DiscoBoy]

Most of those things are mutable. You can eat from a different diet. You have some control over your build and appearance, depending on your thoughts about exercising and eating well. You can work out hard. You can dye your hair and wear colored contacts. You can have someone dress you. What you can't do is change your race.

Or your height, hair and eye colours, penis size, foot and hand sizes, size of lips/nose/ears, etc.-- all of which are routinely used as reasons to reject someone. The very fact that these things can't be changed are exactly the reason why we shouldn't allow ourselves to get too hung up.

 

[Empathizer]

So that's a big "no" on the open and honest conversation, yes?

Please review your posts and consider the impression people have of you.

 

[im8cut]

Online ads give insight into the thought process of people. Maybe the internet creates the illusion of anonymity making people think there are no consequences (and there aren't).

Honesty is one thing but how did it become acceptable or permissible to advertise one’s racism? Would they think it’s OK to put “no blacks” in a job or housing ad? Of course that would not be legal. Are they unthinking, inept or just racist?

 

[Uslidenme]

Hmmm I am thinking I am stepping into a quagmire here and that regardless of what I say its going to be trouble.

But here goes. I'm one of the sexual minorities though in your statement Caucasians or Latins you excluded me. Its ok I didn't take it too personally.
First I think you maybe made it simpler then it may actually be. I have almost always dated outside of my race(whatever that means).
I do find all manner of men attractive but I also have my personal preferences as well.
Heres some things you may not have thought about or taken into account.
Beyond sexual preference is cultural ease. Some cultures mix easier then others. Unless you are just looking for a one time lay you always have the possibility in your mind of how will this person fit in with my friends and family and vice versa.
A lot of times people don't know what they don't know and they just go with what feels safe with no hassles.
You can't really blame them for that. I don't always do this because I'm human and sometimes I don't feel like tackling a mountain but I've just started exchanging emails with people and letting them get to know me the person. It doesn't always work out in the long run but a lot of people are willing to give you a chance if you drop the chip on your shoulder and realize they are human with foibles and they just want to be loved just like you do. If they really don't want to give you a chance then don't waste another moment of energy on them. They are not as advanced as you are and would move your spirit backward and not forward . Move upward and onward.

 

[lokican]

Very interesting debate, and would like to just add my 2 cents. I agree with the other posts that says it's certain characteristics of the human body that people are attracted to, and that could lead to excluding the majority of someone who belongs to race who generally does not display a body feature an individual finds attractive.

Even If someone went as far as to say "I'm not really attracted to Blacks, Mexicans, or whatever" but did not discriminate the on any other basis such as employment, or treated them differently, then I wouldn't define it as racism. In the world of dating it can be cruel. Everyone has their criteria in what they are looking for. Some people do not meet whatever standards people have. When it comes to attraction, you cannot help how you feel. As long as you don't blur the line between your tastes and generalizing that's the accepted view. Back to my previous quote: You can say "I'm not really in to Black, Whites, Asians, whatever" but if you said "Black are ugly" or "asians are ugly" then that crosses the line and is racism in my opinion.

For example we should never discriminate against a disabled person, but does that if your not willing to date someone in wheelchair that you are discriminating towards them? In my opinion no.

Anyways that's just my input, I love these debates, and think healthy discourse is a great way for us to work out these tricky issues in our society.

 

[Remington]

Honestly, unless if there is some bigotry involved, I see it as only a preference. Like preferring the color blue to red.

You can't really help what you're attracted to.

 

[im8cut]

Honestly, unless if there is some bigotry involved, I see it as only a preference. Like preferring the color blue to red.

You can't really help what you're attracted to.

Attraction is built into us as children making it last through adulthood. Racism is also a learned behavior. When I was growing up, my parents (who are rather racist and grew up during a time when it was more acceptable) raised me to think that I should marry a dominican or nigerian girl. White people will mistreat me, Indians will scam me, mexicans would steal from me, etc etc. I grew out of this thinking and made up my own mind.

It would have been easier for me to just follow the guidelines set for me. Racists are lazy, they'd rather sit in a corner of isolation being pointed and laughed at rather than take a difficult step into enlightenment.

If you disagree with that, then how about this.

I was also raised Christian. Only missed church 2 times that I can remember from ages 0-18. Being brought up in the Christian culture is a big deal and hard to get away from. I decided to take that difficult step and relied on my own thoughts instead of taking easy street. All these learned behaviors, traditions and rituals can be overcome.

Someone can still be a bigot even without being aware of it. Thinking "I only like green eyes and pale skin" may not be inherently racist, but I have a feeling that more times than not, the foundation of this kind of reasoning is racist. This same person would likely turn down a black guy/girl that has pale skin and green eyes. There are many MANY "brown" people who have lighter skin than "white" people, but can't escape the blakehole that is racism.

 

[Joseph]

This is a tough issue. Hard to tell what's right and what's wrong.

I know people who are really against having sex with some ethnic groups.
On the other hand there's members of those groups who would think that's ok, just your preferences and just because you find people from those groups SEXUALLY unattractive, doesn't mean your a racist.

I personally have nothing against any kind of people and wouldn't make a difference for me... expect with black guys. I do really often feel attracted to them.
And yes, there's people who'd consider my tiny likeness for black guys to be racist already.



It depends how you see it.

 

[DozerLA]

I'm attracted to many races (white, latino, black, middle eastern, etc.), but I don't think there is really such a thing as "sexual racism" - just because you may only be attracted to white guys, or only black guys, or latin and asians, etc. doesn't make you racist, it just defines what types of guys you're attracted to - for example, if I am not turned on by asians, that doesn't make me racist, I'm just begin honest about what makes my dick hard, which is a natural sexual response you can't control, it's just a fact. Likewise, if I read personal ads from black guys saying "brothers only" - i don't take it as a form of sexual racism, that's just what floats their boat. To each his own. Now REAL racism is indefensible and shouldn't be tolerated, but in terms of sexually, I think each person, man or woman, has the right to define what attracts them...and what doesn...without being judged and/or dubbed a racist.

 

[B_chinagirl73]

Thought Crime!!

 

[punkboi26]

Very interesting debate, and would like to just add my 2 cents. I agree with the other posts that says it's certain characteristics of the human body that people are attracted to, and that could lead to excluding the majority of someone who belongs to race who generally does not display a body feature an individual finds attractive.

Even If someone went as far as to say "I'm not really attracted to Blacks, Mexicans, or whatever" but did not discriminate the on any other basis such as employment, or treated them differently, then I wouldn't define it as racism. In the world of dating it can be cruel. Everyone has their criteria in what they are looking for. Some people do not meet whatever standards people have. When it comes to attraction, you cannot help how you feel. As long as you don't blur the line between your tastes and generalizing that's the accepted view. Back to my previous quote: You can say "I'm not really in to Black, Whites, Asians, whatever" but if you said "Black are ugly" or "asians are ugly" then that crosses the line and is racism in my opinion.

For example we should never discriminate against a disabled person, but does that if your not willing to date someone in wheelchair that you are discriminating towards them? In my opinion no.

Anyways that's just my input, I love these debates, and think healthy discourse is a great way for us to work out these tricky issues in our society.

I agree. It's when a person suggests the "race" or group that they are not attracted to are ugly is when it would be crossing the line. I do know that some can be overly deffensive or rather offended when one says they are not attracted to a certain type pf people. I'm afraid suggesting to one that they must like all or none is very small minded. I'm afraid some people learn to be offended by everything that doesnt agree with what they believe. Some people become accustomed to immediately going on the defense when someone doesnt like something they dont like. I have heard so many arguments over people aggresively defending a stupid brand of cell phone because one person didnt like the phone they had. Guy 1: "Look at my new cell phone dude!" Guy 2: "I dont really like those phones so much." Guy 1: "Fuck you! What do you know, shit for brains!". I would never tell a person that if they like breakfast that they must like all breakfast foods. You have your tastes, its as simple as that. You can never force one to enjoy anchovies if they dont like the taste, it's just not something you can do. If we were all attracted to the exact same things the world would be a seriously boring and bland place.
Just my two little queer pennies:tongue:
*Naked Hugz!*

 

[B_VinylBoy]

This is a very grey area. We can't help who or what someone is attracted to. That in itself may not be racist, however, the response given by someone when approached by a person they may not be attracted to may tell a different story. Although I may have my preferences, I don't reject the possibility of fooling around with any particular person due to their race. Beyond the color of one's skin, ever person is different... and a hot man is a hot man. Period. Sadly, as a person who is usually attracted to people outside of my own race I've received my share of resentment for "not sticking with my kind" from all sides. Kinda ridiculous that in 2010 some people still have a grievance with that.

 

[B_chinagirl73]

What i was implying by my cryptic 2 word post is that nobody has to justify who they like sexually.

If i have negative thougths about a race or nationality I'd keep it to myself - just as with individuals. Peace, love and respect!

 

[LaFemme]

Beyond sexual preference is cultural ease. Some cultures mix easier then others. Unless you are just looking for a one time lay you always have the possibility in your mind of how will this person fit in with my friends and family and vice versa.

I find this discussion fascinating. It's something I've thought about a lot. I am the product of a mixed marriage and I know my parents went through about 5 levels of hell when they got married. "What was that perfectly nice white woman thinking??"

I've had my share of racism in my life. I didn't think racism or what my parents went through affected me - I've dated men of all races, so I never thought of myself as having a preference. But looking back - my few serious relationships were with mixed race men. Is this "cultural ease" that sits in my sub-conscious? Somewhere inside me, do I believe that only mixed men can understand me? I will admit that coming from a similar cultural background leads to a quick understanding or sharing of experience. But now I wonder if I'm subconsciously excluding whole groups of men. I do know that after participating in this discussion, I am going to be more aware of my choices.

 

[maxcok]

I've never been particularly attracted to redheads. It's not their hair and eye coloring, which I kind of like, I think it's because lots of them have sort of weirdly textured skin, kind of soft and pasty, and then there are those freckles. Still surprisingly, I ended up having a great longterm relationship with one anyway. Go figure . . . but overall I'm not attracted to them. Should I feel quilty?

I'm sort of Teutonic caucasian myself, btw.