Sexualization of childhood

[B_NineInchCock_160IQ]

I am pretty sure very few mainstream organized religions have this mindset. I think most simply say respect your body and don't abuse it. There may nave been a time when the above was true but no longer.

But it is exceedingly common for mainstream organized religion (of the Christian variety) to teach that man is inherently sinful, and that your natural desires and inclinations are sinful and evil things that you should be ashamed of and remorseful for. Also that, whether the naked human body is ugly or not, it's not something that ought to be looked at.

 

[B_NineInchCock_160IQ]

But looking at how these kids are dressed these days it is no wonder that there is an increase in pedophilia.

What?

First of all... what exactly are you basing this on? I'm unaware of any "increase in pedophilia." Maybe an increase in awareness. And of course, becaues of that, an increase in paranoia concerning it.

Secondly... I find it hard to believe that pedophilia has anything at all to do with how provocatively young girls dress. Again, I'd like to see any evidence linking the two, I doubt you'll find any.

 

[B_NineInchCock_160IQ]

I don't agree with this. I do agree that lifelong monogamy is difficult and, seemingly, nearly impossible and has been proven so in human history. However, it's a very practical arrangement, especially for raising children. It is very difficult to raise a child alone. Having that extra set of hands, eyes, etc. around all the time just to divide tasks make things so much easier.

It's also a very stable way to raise children-- now that I'm not dating, I have a lot of time to devote to raising my child. My mental and emotional energy aren't going to meeting men, dating, and all the drama that entails. If my husband and I stay married, my son won't have to worry about the chaos that having two homes, new moms, new brothers and sisters, etc. that multiple relationships create.

Not that people that stay married don't create complete chaos in their children's lives. All things considered, though, I really think that if a couple can stay together and raise their children giving them an example of a long-lasting, loving, stable relationship, the kids will turn out better for it. It's not impossible, it's just difficult. Personally, I think the fact that our generation has pretty much given up on the idea of monogamy and lifelong relationships is a tragedy engendered by our parents that didn't work hard enough to stick it out because there is no longer a social imperative to do so.

What does ANY of that have to do with sex? Why does the person that you are partnered with to raise your children have to be the only person that you are fucking? How do those two activities have anything at all to do with each other? I know that because we are so completely indoctrinated with the idea of what marriage should be it's difficult to think about it in a different way. I don't disagree with anything you said, but nothing you said disagreed with anything that I said. The two posts had nothing to do with each other.

 

[D_Humper E Bogart]

Sex is way too overated. Is it me or are kids not taught how to be DECENT HUMAN BEINGS but are taught how to fuck so early?

I'm a freak of nature, but I do know a few things and that kids are taught biology (which is a good thing) but no sociology. I'm fortunate I have resources like LPSG (which is not on the national curriculum) and I read up, self-learn, that sort of thing.

Sexually and emotionally, we are not all the same. I believe 160IQ was sexually aware at 4. I've always masturbated, but am still 'singular' at 23. Not to say that sex eduacation is a bad thing, indeed the videos and classes were very informative, but I don't feel they are enough.

People don't listen to their bodies. I can browse LPSG for thousands of topics and go "Yep, that works for me" or "No way, that sucks". Believe it or not, we are a valuable aspect of sexual education! But many people I feel, couldn't tell you what an orgasm is supposed to feel like after having many!

What about communication with family, or honest discussion? I don't with my familly, but I've known some ladyfriends who have been deeply honest and I am eternally thankful. And there's LPSG.

I'm going to keep mentioning this board. Why? Because it's COMMUNICATION! HONEST COMMUNICATION that matters. A video can tell you what an orgasm is supposed to do, but can the teacher say what an orgasm feels like? Can a teacher or your parents, or your friends tell you what a relationship is about? Can many men (and indeed women) be like Lex and come out to their own children? Videos and classes are all well and good, but I feel I learnt far more through asking stupid, gross and moronic questions, then I ever did from watching a man get a boner on VCR.

 

[madame_zora]

What?

First of all... what exactly are you basing this on? I'm unaware of any "increase in pedophilia." Maybe an increase in awareness. And of course, becaues of that, an increase in paranoia concerning it.

Secondly... I find it hard to believe that pedophilia has anything at all to do with how provocatively young girls dress. Again, I'd like to see any evidence linking the two, I doubt you'll find any.

Paedophilia has nothing to do with dress, I'm glad you brought this up. It's about power, and an adult's misguided attraction to children- nothing more.

While I agree that it's unhealthy for the child to dress and think of themselves as a sexually active adult, I don't believe for a minute that it has much effect on paedophilia. I also don't believe there's an increase, we're just finally talking about it.

Ephebophiliacs, which are persons attracted to post-pubescent teens, are a different ilk from paedophiles. In this stage, then yes- I'd say dress could have an influence, but it gets tricky. If a man is attracted to a teenage girl because she looks older, then that's not either thing, really.
Young people are not responsible for the innapropriate attentions paid them by adults, regardless of the circumstances. BUT, if a young person is misrepresenting their age/maturity level, then that IS their responsibility.
There's a difference between looking pretty and having your tits hanging out when you're too young to be involved in sex.

Nothing can replace parenting- and it is shameful what a idiotic job parents do about their children's sexual education. I don't agree at all that the whole world should have to be g-rated just so that parents are relieved of the responsibility of monitoring what their children do. Actually, monitoring isn't good enough either, because despite what you allow at home, your kids WILL see things elsewhere. It is the absolute responsibility of parents to get over their own uneasiness with the subject, and talk to our kids, and often. Nobody knows your kid as an individual as well as you do, so it is up to you to determine what is age appropriate for them to learn. At some point, discuss nudity, later on, bodily functioning and reproduction, then sex and relationships. One "sex talk" is a pathetic attempt at parenting, and I resent having the responsibility for other people's kids shoved on me. I raised mine, and I talked to her- which is why I have a 21 year old without a kid of her own. She wasn't placed in hibernation, and I don't feel I owe that to the generations that follow.

 

[Wyldgusechaz]

Explain. How did what I say constitute being a bad citizen to children?

Do you have children?



What does being monogamous (or not) have to do with raising children?

------
I

I don't know what being a good *global* citizen means. They say all politics is local. Well being a good *global* citizen starts with being a good *local* citizen. I thought it was an odd phrase. It reminded me of Ray Lewis, middle linebacker for the Baltimore Ravens. He has set out to be a minister, a spiritual guider, however he has 6 children by 4 different women and none of his kids live with him, by his choice. How can one call himself a leader of men when he isn;t even a fulltime 24/7 dad? And he is just a public example i know others just like him. And I am not saying you are Ray Lewis. I don't even read your posts so I know nothing about you. It was an odd phrase that I don't understand. But your story now is heartfelt.

I don't know if monogamy if a good thing or bad thing for children. I know swingers who have a rocking sex life, hidden though from their kids. And I know a couple, swingers, whose kids were devastated when they found out their mom and dad were not monogamous. If you must hide your sex life from your older kids, that makes me uneasy. If its a healthy thing why hide it? But like I said, I don't know.

 

[madame_zora]

I don't know what being a good *global* citizen means. They say all politics is local. Well being a good *global* citizen starts with being a good *local* citizen. I thought it was an odd phrase. It reminded me of Ray Lewis, middle linebacker for the Baltimore Ravens. He has set out to be a minister, a spiritual guider, however he has 6 children by 4 different women and none of his kids live with him, by his choice. How can one call himself a leader of men when he isn;t even a fulltime 24/7 dad? And he is just a public example i know others just like him. And I am not saying you are Ray Lewis. I don't even read your posts so I know nothing about you. It was an odd phrase that I don't understand. But your story now is heartfelt.

I don't know if monogamy if a good thing or bad thing for children. I know swingers who have a rocking sex life, hidden though from their kids. And I know a couple, swingers, whose kids were devastated when they found out their mom and dad were not monogamous. If you must hide your sex life from your older kids, that makes me uneasy. If its a healthy thing why hide it? But like I said, I don't know.

I don't feel comfortable with your choice of words here. Why would one be "hiding" their sex life from their kids? Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that the parent's sex life is just none of the kids' business? Did your parents kiss you goodnight, then say, "We're going to go fuck now"? Were they "hiding" that fact from you, or was it just personal business?

Monogamy is the decision for the people involved to make, but whether or not the parents are monogamous, who they fuck isn't a dinner table discussion. Whether mommy likes it doggy style or not isn't either. Everyone is entitled to some degree of privacy, even parents! I feel the important thing is that parents don't lie to each other about their sex lives, because that has traumatic results for everyone involved. I'd rather have respectful people in an open relationship than two liars trying to raise good kids. Think about how few marriages are truly monogamous before you rip me a new asshole for that one.

 

[Shelby]

My wife and I have tried hard not to shield our kids from practically anything conceptual. According to their teachers and most everyone who knows them they're good kids.

Hell, they were just little farts when we were all jamming to uncensored Eminem, especially Kim. Didn't seem to phase 'em.
​

 

[Lex]

It reminded me of Ray Lewis, middle linebacker for the Baltimore Ravens. He has set out to be a minister, a spiritual guider, however he has 6 children by 4 different women and none of his kids live with him, by his choice. How can one call himself a leader of men when he isn;t even a fulltime 24/7 dad? And he is just a public example i know others just like him.

Wow. You are being really, REALLY judgmental. Let's leave the judgements to the higher power, okay? It is this false belief that our leaders need be flawless that feuls the "crises" of men in power making misteps while in authority.

If Ray Lewis feels called to preach--who are you to say he would not make a fine leader of men? Malcolm X was a thug and ex-con before he converted himself into a good leader. Rosa Parks and Dr. King got arrested (which is considered a bad thing last time I checked).

When you live your own life without flaw, then feel free to start ripping down others for the way they live. If you think you can be a better parent, then BE it. But don't insinutate that those of us who are good parents are not so just because we do not share your neo-conservative view of the world as a bad place from which kids need be protected.

I happen to feel that kids (and people) need to be EDUCATED. An educated child (in all matter social, civil, personal, and common) is a well-rouded child. Hiding shit does not work. Ever.

And I am not saying you are Ray Lewis. I don't even read your posts so I know nothing about you. It was an odd phrase that I don't understand. But your story now is heartfelt.

Then ask for clarification instead of barking some inane response. If you don't read my posts, please don't quote me--it rather makes NO sense.

 

[DC_DEEP]

I agree with several of the posters here.

I just cannot figure out these people in the general population who think it's fine to do the "Jon Benet" thing, and have their 6-year-old daughter wearing makeup and dancing strip-tease moves; their 10-year-old daughter idolizing and emulating Brittney Spears; but they think it's awful for children to learn age-appropriate, factual information about their own bodies and health and sexual development.

Come on, folks, a child should NOT reach age 15 before hearing the word "penis". I think the children should be neither encouraged nor discouraged from their own normal sexual development. Parents should provide factual, comfortable, age-appropriate information as their children need it. How do you know? Answer the kid's questions, honestly, as the kid asks them - without providing TMI. They know how much information they are ready for, and will ask questions accordingly.

What is taboo, and what is encouraged, seems a bit backward. No wonder children are confused.

 

[invisibleman]

"I remember wanting to go to the movies alone with a boy when I was 13 and my father saying "no." When I explained that I was a good Christian and there was no possibility of me doing anything improper if left with a boy, my father told me of a "Good Christian" neighbor girl who had snuck into his bedroom at night wearing nothing but a baby-doll nightgown. Apparently, he thought that there were no "good girls," and that we just can't be trusted to make our own decisions about our own bodies."
--Chrysalis

Chrys--
Your father's advice was wise and truthful. Hehehe. (Chrys' dad's a DILF? Who knew...:biggrin1: ) My sister ended up getting knocked up by out next door neighbor's son. That set the impetus on the lockdown for every sibling following her (including me.). (Thanks alot, Renee. :smile: )

"Unfortunately, his words became a self-fulfilling prophecy. My 33-year-old brother and I are two of the most oversexed people I have ever encountered. We both had sexual thoughts and urges from early childhood. We were both promiscuous as teenagers. We've both had difficulty with monogamy. And we don't know if we just got a weird set of "horny" genes, or if our parents really shouldn't have been quite so open with us..." --Chrysalis

There's nothing wrong with urges and desires, though. I wasn't promiscuous during high school and college. But once I graduated, I was fucking lots of guys (Yeah, I used condoms--properly-- every encounter. I grew up during the AIDS epidemic and awareness.) Making up for four prudish college years of semi celebacy.

"Should they have told me about the "birds and bees" when I was five, or shouldn't they have? (BTW I did get the scoop on periods and orgasms from my mom by the time I was ten, but at that point I'd already had orgasms in my sleep)."--Chrysalis

I had public school sex education. The classes. The films. The discussions. All were heterosexual based of course. Girls and boys didn't really like me anyway. So, I wasn't the stud or the popular choice. I remember a few of my fellow associates were getting pregnant by school hoodies. They had to drop out of junior high school to take care of their child.

"I'll never really know, so I don't blame anyone for the way I am. There's definitely no changing it now. But I suspect that my parents' behavior may have had something do with it. Parents can err in either direction, I think, despite their best intentions."--Chrysalis

Parents are not perfect. Mine weren't. I can blame my parents on a lot of things. They can do the same about me. Children aren't perfect either. We are all trying to live, deal and do with what we have in life. We all have plans and intentions. Parents can have ideals about their kids but they should always keep them written in pencil. Disappointments should be expected by both.

 

[Wyldgusechaz]

Wow. You are being really, REALLY judgmental. Let's leave the judgements to the higher power, okay? It is this false belief that our leaders need be flawless that feuls the "crises" of men in power making misteps while in authority.

If Ray Lewis feels called to preach--who are you to say he would not make a fine leader of men? Malcolm X was a thug and ex-con before he converted himself into a good leader. Rosa Parks and Dr. King got arrested (which is considered a bad thing last time I checked).

When you live your own life without flaw, then feel free to start ripping down others for the way they live. If you think you can be a better parent, then BE it. But don't insinutate that those of us who are good parents are not so just because we do not share your neo-conservative view of the world as a bad place from which kids need be protected.

I happen to feel that kids (and people) need to be EDUCATED. An educated child (in all matter social, civil, personal, and common) is a well-rouded child. Hiding shit does not work. Ever.




Then ask for clarification instead of barking some inane response. If you don't read my posts, please don't quote me--it rather makes NO sense.

We can never agree or find common ground that being a selective part time dad to 6 children whom you brought on the earth and deciding to be a leader of men while not leading FULL TIME your own children is equatable to the nobilty and exalted status i hold for Rosa Parks. Ray Lewis is no Rosa Parks.

I think I am flawed for being here. Please delete my account. thanks WGC

 

[B_NineInchCock_160IQ]

I just wanted to thank Zora for her comments, I think everything she said was spot on.

and... I guess say goodbye to mr. Wyld? The guy who likes videos of women being raped who now feels morally superior.

I don't know much about Ray Lewis, maybe he's a hypocrite for being a preacher, I don't know. I think most Christians are hypocrites anyway, so why should that matter? I do, however, think it was pretty pathetic how the pastor at the church I used to go to was forced to resign after a computer technician found a few pornographic images on his computer. As if that's so much worse than all the twits dressing in their Sunday finest to impress each other, revel in their own pride, materialism and weltlust, all whilst pretending to be pious. Fucked up priorities, I say... and highly selective interpretations of our morality.

 

[Lex]

We can never agree or find common ground that being a selective part time dad to 6 children whom you brought on the earth and deciding to be a leader of men while not leading FULL TIME your own children is equatable to the nobilty and exalted status i hold for Rosa Parks. Ray Lewis is no Rosa Parks.

I think I am flawed for being here. Please delete my account. thanks WGC

My point was not that Ray Lewis is Rosa Parks. My point was that it is not your place to judge him or anyone else, while also pointing out that many great people had very big flaws. Dr. King was a rampant womanizer. That does not make him less of a leader. Just makes him a flawed person, like everyone else.

 

[Chrysalis]

Maybe I'm misinterpreting your post Chrys, but are you saying that maybe your parents erred in their upbringing of you because there's something wrong with the way you are now? Because you are oversexed?

I have wondered about that many, many times, primarily because my "oversexedness" has caused so many problems in my life. My brother recently left his wife of 12 years after his serial philandering led to his "falling in love" with a different woman. My parents have now disowned him. He and his ex-wife have three young boys, who are now almost exclusively influenced by their mother. He has called my parents and said nothing...just sobbed on the phone.

I don't know if there's something "wrong with us." Maybe there's something wrong with everybody else. But I do know we have both experienced and doled out pain because of it. I haven't been a serial philanderer (maybe it's a little harder for women to live with that), but I remember, years ago, when I first saw the movie, "Rambling Rose."

If you've seen it, it's basically about an "oversexed" young woman. She can't help it -- that's just the way she is. I remember seeing that movie and crying. It wasn't a tear-jerker. It's just that I thought, "She's me. That woman is me." In the movie, they were considering removing her ovaries so she wouldn't be so much of a...<insert label...slut, nympho, whatever>.

I am pretty sure very few mainstream organized religions have this mindset. I think most simply say respect your body and don't abuse it. There may nave been a time when the above was true but no longer.

You can't get away from the fact that the vast majority of mainstream Christian churches are, or at least try to be, "Bible-believing." This can have a variety of definitions (even for the members within a particular church), but the following Bible passage plagued me for most of my life:

"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.' But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away; it is better for you to lose one of your members than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away; it is better for you to lose one of your members than for your whole body to go into hell." Mt. 4:27-30 (NRSV)


I always figured that what was good for the gander was good for the goose. So if a man could be "thrown into hell" for looking at a woman with a lustful eye, then a woman could just as easily be condemned for looking at a man with a lustful eye.

The first time I read the Bible the whole way through, I was twelve years old. But I had been reading it since I was old enough to read, and it said a lot of things that really scared me.

I started lusting at a far earlier age than most people, and I could not stop. Every night I would confess to God, and the next day I would do it again. By my early teens I knew myself well enough that I could no longer deny the utter pointlessness of confession, and just "gave up," knowing I was too "sexually amoral" to ever live a proper Christian life. And if I couldn't confess, then what was the point of talking to God at all? I lived in misery for years, and all because of a few childish fantasies, and the fact that everyone around me took the Bible literally and could not view certain things in the context of metaphor and hyperbole. That, and the fact that I was "oversexed."

It's hard not to think something's "wrong" with you, under those circumstances.

I know I've wandered from the intended topic of this thread, but "sexualization of children" is an incredibly complex issue, and obviously a "loaded" one for me.

 

[naughty]

Wow,

Chrys that renders me stunned. I too come from a family where I was raised quite strictly and biblically. THough my choices have perhaps been different than yours, it hurts me to my heart to think that you feel you are "oversexed". If God created you, then he created the whole package. Your passionate nature is part of you and seems to spread itself across your life in general. I am so glad that you have found a partner who doesnt shame or blame you for your high drive but cherishes the gem he has found. I really get sick of people shaming and blaming the other person because their libidos may be mismatched. Kindness and flexibility are so necessary in all our interactions with one another. I am glad you shared this.

I have wondered about that many, many times, primarily because my "oversexedness" has caused so many problems in my life. My brother recently left his wife of 12 years after his serial philandering led to his "falling in love" with a different woman. My parents have now disowned him. He and his ex-wife have three young boys, who are now almost exclusively influenced by their mother. He has called my parents and said nothing...just sobbed on the phone.

I don't know if there's something "wrong with us." Maybe there's something wrong with everybody else. But I do know we have both experienced and doled out pain because of it. I haven't been a serial philanderer (maybe it's a little harder for women to live with that), but I remember, years ago, when I first saw the movie, "Rambling Rose."

If you've seen it, it's basically about an "oversexed" young woman. She can't help it -- that's just the way she is. I remember seeing that movie and crying. It wasn't a tear-jerker. It's just that I thought, "She's me. That woman is me." In the movie, they were considering removing her ovaries so she wouldn't be so much of a...<insert label...slut, nympho, whatever>.



You can't get away from the fact that the vast majority of mainstream Christian churches are, or at least try to be, "Bible-believing." This can have a variety of definitions (even for the members within a particular church), but the following Bible passage plagued me for most of my life:

"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.' But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away; it is better for you to lose one of your members than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away; it is better for you to lose one of your members than for your whole body to go into hell." Mt. 4:27-30 (NRSV)


I always figured that what was good for the gander was good for the goose. So if a man could be "thrown into hell" for looking at a woman with a lustful eye, then a woman could just as easily be condemned for looking at a man with a lustful eye.

I started lusting at a far earlier age than most people, and I could not stop. Every night I would confess to God, and the next day I would do it again. By my early teens I knew myself well enough that I could no longer deny the utter pointlessness of confession, and just "gave up," knowing I was too "sexually amoral" to ever live a proper Christian life. And if I couldn't confess, then what was the point of talking to God at all? I lived in misery for years, and all because of a few childish fantasies, and the fact that everyone around me took the passage from Matthew literally...

And that I was "oversexed."

It's hard not to think something's "wrong" with you, under those circumstances.

I know I've wandered from the intended topic of this thread, but "sexualization of children" is an incredibly complex issue, and obviously a "loaded" one for me.

 

[Expando1]

The focus is misdirected. Teaching kids about sex in a responsible way as they age will not make them into pervs or lead to increased teen pregnancies...on the contrary, it will do the opposite. Withholding such information from them when they have the curiosity and seek the knowledge is what leads them to make inappropriate decisions about the matter. I knew about sex way before I ever cared about it on account of my "liberal" parents. I still cared more for my Saturday morning cartoons than my older brother's porn mags.

Simply being the ostrich and pretending that kids don't have some concept of sexuality and want to know more about it is dangerous.

 

[naughty]

Well said!

Great name, by the way! LOL!

The focus is misdirected. Teaching kids about sex in a responsible way as they age will not make them into pervs or lead to increased teen pregnancies...on the contrary, it will do the opposite. Withholding such information from them when they have the curiosity and seek the knowledge is what leads them to make inappropriate decisions about the matter. I knew about sex way before I ever cared about it on account of my "liberal" parents. I still cared more for my Saturday morning cartoons than my older brother's porn mags.

Simply being the ostrich and pretending that kids don't have some concept of sexuality and want to know more about it is dangerous.

 

[rob_just_rob]

Gotta opine on Ray-Ray - he's a poor role model and/or leader of men for having stabbed someone to death and run away, and after being caught, plea bargaining his way out of a murder rap in exchange for fingering his friends.

This is long before we ever get to talking about the kids he doesn't support.

 

[naughty]

OK,

I have stayed out of this but I need to speak up now. Ray Lewis didnt kill anyone. Someone in his entourage was responsible for that stabbing after being goaded by two men after a game in Atlanta. Next, I do not agree that Ray should be preaching, I hope that his conversion is real but that is just not a good message being sent to those who look up to him. Like it or not we have to hold those in certain positions to a higher standard. He is very much responsible for his lack of contraception but the women involved are also as much to blame. THough I am a Ravens fan and love Ray on the field I can not agree with or condone the message he is sending by fathering so many children out of wedlock...

Gotta opine on Ray-Ray - he's a poor role model and/or leader of men for having stabbed someone to death and run away, and after being caught, plea bargaining his way out of a murder rap in exchange for fingering his friends.

This is long before we ever get to talking about the kids he doesn't support.