Sexualization of childhood

[rob_just_rob]

OK,

I have stayed out of this but I need to speak up now. Ray Lewis didnt kill anyone. Someone in his entourage was responsible for that stabbing after being goaded by two men after a game in Atlanta. Next, I do not agree that Ray should be preaching, I hope that his conversion is real but that is just not a good message being sent to those who look up to him. Like it or not we have to hold those in certain positions to a higher standard. He is very much responsible for his lack of contraception but the women involved are also as much to blame. THough I am a Ravens fan and love Ray on the field I can not agree with or condone the message he is sending by fathering so many children out of wedlock...

Perhaps he didn't wield the knife - we'll never know for certain.

We do know that he did his best to shut everyone up, and paid off the victim's family rather than contest the civil suit.

 

[jakeatolla]

*Brings to mind a story of a girl in my class saying her niece is 9, and is obsessed with having large breasts, and getting her period.*

That is So wrong. But when you consider that children are starting puberty earlier and earlier.

My Nephew started going through puberty at 6!!!

 

[madame_zora]

Once upon a time, there was this really mean dude named Saul. He murdered Christians.*


I really hope you who call yourselves Christians get the point, but I do know better from experience.

Lex brings up an invaluable point- if we expect our leaders to be unflawed, but we are drawing from the set of [human beings], then our expectations are insane! The very truth of the matter is that we continue to set our expectations contrary to reality, then judge harshly when reality raises its ugly head. Look at marriage. Jobs. Families. Relationships. Politics. Religion. In all these ares, we just refuse to accept the reality that human beings are imperfect, and then we have the audacity to be indignant when others err. Of course, we expect acceptance and love when we err- I mean, I really hate ppl most of the time.

I'm just glad Jesus got the message right. You judegmental assholes might want to re-read the book. I remember a story about Jesus getting angry and violent when throwing moneychangers out of the temple- glad he wasn't too sullied to preach.

I know nothing about this man Ray Lewis, but I'd be the last person to condemn someone from being a leader because he had a past. I'd rather have someone lead who has had cause to overcome adversity, so he/she knows what the fuck to do when the shit hits the fan. What comfort would it be to anyone to know that someone was at the helm who had absolutely no experience with crisis management? Think ppl- use your heads for something other than a hat rack.








*for those who don't know the story, he converted, changed his name to Paul, and went on to write much of the Bible. Our Christians are so unlike Christ.

 

[Lex]

Lex brings up an invaluable point- if we expect our leaders to be unflawed, but we are drawing from the set of [human beings], then our expectations are insane! The very truth of the matter is that we continue to set our expectations contrary to reality, then judge harshly when reality raises its ugly head. Look at marriage. Jobs. Families. Relationships. Politics. Religion. In all these ares, we just refuse to accept the reality that human beings are imperfect, and then we have the audacity to be indignant when others err. Of course, we expect acceptance and love when we err- I mean, I really hate ppl most of the time....

This is exactly my point. None of us is perfect. I expect of others exactly what I expect of myself--that they do their best all the time, warts and all, while trying to be better. A constant process of becoming, if you will.

 

[rob_just_rob]

I know nothing about this man Ray Lewis, but I'd be the last person to condemn someone from being a leader because he had a past. I'd rather have someone lead who has had cause to overcome adversity, so he/she knows what the fuck to do when the shit hits the fan. What comfort would it be to anyone to know that someone was at the helm who had absolutely no experience with crisis management? Think ppl- use your heads for something other than a hat rack.

I suppose he's really no better or worse than the many "leaders" who when they screw up, offer an "apology" that amounts to "sorry I got caught, and if you were offended (with the implication that you shouldn't be), I'm sorry". Then they go into rehab and on their recovery, continue to be their previous hypocritical selves.

An admission of responsibility is what someone with an adult mentality provides when they screw up. We don't see many admissions of responsibility these days. It's always the drugs, or a misunderstanding, or the pressures of work, or the devil's fault.

 

[naughty]

I at no time said I was perfect however, just as we ALL hold the President to a higher standard, If you are going to lead a congregation and are continuing to engage in behaviors that are against the doctrines you preach there is something to be said about it. I LOVE Ray Lewis, I just dont think he should serve as a minister... There are many other ways in which he can serve if he so choses...

This is exactly my point. None of us is perfect. I expect of others exactly what I expect of myself--that they do their best all the time, warts and all, while trying to be better. A constant process of becoming, if you will.

 

[madame_zora]

I at no time said I was perfect however, just as we ALL hold the President to a higher standard, If you are going to lead a congregation and are continuing to engage in behaviors that are against the doctrines you preach there is something to be said about it. I LOVE Ray Lewis, I just dont think he should serve as a minister... There are many other ways in which he can serve if he so choses...

But but but, the president is an ex-cocaine addict and drunk! Saul was a murderer, and he led the whole Christian movement after Jesus' death. If people can't change, what's redemption all about?

 

[naughty]

Yes Jana,

Saul of Tarsus was responsible for persecuting what would eventually be called Christians before his own conversion. Yes, religion has been used to hurt and persecute many in the name of God, Allah,etc. Unfortunately, the thing that seems to be lost here is that for everything we do there is a consequence. If you are convicted of a crime, you forfeit your right to vote. Now, there are probably many people who will see nothing wrong with Ray Lewis serving as a pastor, I am sure that he would be quite charismatic, however I once again say I dont think it is the best choice. There are far too many ministers out here now who present a very sordid example for their congregations. Often, instead of their followers seeing them as examples of persons who have over come, The mesage sent is "I can do whatever I am big enough to do with impunity".I am not saying he can not serve as a role model, and lay evangelist or an example of a Christian athlete but as a minister, and leader of a congregation....no.

Oh, by the way your alllusions to Saul of Tarsus were not lost at all. I just find it somewhat of putting as a Christian to be refered to as an asshole for expressing an opinion which might differ from your own....

Once upon a time, there was this really mean dude named Saul. He murdered Christians.*


I really hope you who call yourselves Christians get the point, but I do know better from experience.

Lex brings up an invaluable point- if we expect our leaders to be unflawed, but we are drawing from the set of [human beings], then our expectations are insane! The very truth of the matter is that we continue to set our expectations contrary to reality, then judge harshly when reality raises its ugly head. Look at marriage. Jobs. Families. Relationships. Politics. Religion. In all these ares, we just refuse to accept the reality that human beings are imperfect, and then we have the audacity to be indignant when others err. Of course, we expect acceptance and love when we err- I mean, I really hate ppl most of the time.

I'm just glad Jesus got the message right. You judegmental assholes might want to re-read the book. I remember a story about Jesus getting angry and violent when throwing moneychangers out of the temple- glad he wasn't too sullied to preach.

I know nothing about this man Ray Lewis, but I'd be the last person to condemn someone from being a leader because he had a past. I'd rather have someone lead who has had cause to overcome adversity, so he/she knows what the fuck to do when the shit hits the fan. What comfort would it be to anyone to know that someone was at the helm who had absolutely no experience with crisis management? Think ppl- use your heads for something other than a hat rack.








*for those who don't know the story, he converted, changed his name to Paul, and went on to write much of the Bible. Our Christians are so unlike Christ.

 

[madame_zora]

Naughty, I know you'll read this in the pm I just sent, but the "asshole" wasn't just directed to you. I find it off putting that Christians (not just you) don't place forgiveness above judgement. I also admitted that I know nothing about Ray personally.

The Saul/Paul reference isn't just a clever line I pulled out, it is a genuine opinion. See, I personally dislike Paul very much, as I personally find much that is still "unrecovered" in his writings. Still, he is regarded by many, even many people I respect a great deal, to be a great leader. I still don't like him- we don't have to agree.

HOWEVER, I wouldn't suggest something antithetical to the religion I claimed and expect no repercussions. See, ALL sin and fall short of the glory of God, ALL! I am extremely angry (not at you at all on this) about our society in general right now sticking their heads in the sand, and thinking it's okay to expect perfection from each other- when we don't have it ourselves. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

It is entirely possible that you are far freer from sin than myself. With the extent to which I have been forgiven, I have a lot of room to forgive. I'd MUCH rather have an HONEST leader if we could find one (Ray may or may not be such a guy) than a hypocrite who only recognises the sins of others, not himself. It's the cover-ups that keep coming out that make me sick, not the fact that humans are imperfect- I already knew that. I just don't happen to feel that anyone has the right to be surprised that other people are broken too. We should have gotten that basic premise from Oprah by now.

 

[B_NineInchCock_160IQ]

just as we ALL hold the President to a higher standard

don't speak for everyone now.. personally I'm impressed whenever he can form a complete sentence.

 

[naughty]

don't speak for everyone now.. personally I'm impressed whenever he can form a complete sentence.

I would never presume to speak for you. I truly wish your words to stand for you and you alone....

 

[Shelby]

While all this idealism about forgiveness and non-judgement is quite impressive one realizes, of course, that taking it to it's logical conclusion would entail freeing all convicts, and abolishing all (man made) law.

It's a cool idea but I'm not sure how workable it is in the real world.

 

[Ethyl]

While all this idealism about forgiveness and non-judgement is quite impressive one realizes, of course, that taking it to it's logical conclusion would entail freeing all convicts, and abolishing all (man made) law.

It's a cool idea but I'm not sure how workable it is in the real world.

It works. One can be forgiven but one must also often suffer the consequences of their actions. Karma and all that jazz.

 

[naughty]

It works. One can be forgiven but one must also often suffer the consequences of their actions. Karma and all that jazz.

I couldnt have said it better myself...

 

[Lex]

No one in this thread can nor should decide who can and can't be a leader, preacher, etc.

You can decide not to follow them or attend their churches or support their organizations.

But you can't tell someone what they can BE. Sorry. That's BS.

And as far as Karma--the cool thing about it and that it takes care of things all by itself--as it was meant to be.

 

[DC_DEEP]

<...>
If you are going to lead a congregation and are continuing to engage in behaviors that are against the doctrines you preach there is something to be said about it...

<...>
If people can't change, what's redemption all about?

While all this idealism about forgiveness and non-judgement is quite impressive one realizes, of course, that taking it to it's logical conclusion would entail freeing all convicts, and abolishing all (man made) law.

It's a cool idea but I'm not sure how workable it is in the real world.

Ah, now we have it! It takes all three of these concepts to make the concept of "forgiveness" or "redemption" or "rehabilitation" work. If you have bad or unethical or immoral behaviors, you have to accept responsibility, cease the behavior, and actually change yourself. Leave out any part of the equation, and anything else is moot, lip service. (and not the good kind of lip service, either.)

 

[madame_zora]

Dc, you are spot on there. What Shelby posted is true, but we're not talking about a legal position. If a convicted felon can be a government official (as so many in congress are and have been), then I see no reason why they can't be a preacher. Yes, that's a personal opinion, but I stand by it.

Obviously, a prerequisite would be that they actually DO change, and as I said, I don't know about this man. The thing is, if someone does a crime and does the time, then I am of the opinion that they should be given a chance to see if they have in fact learned their lesson. Perhaps they've gained some valuable insight from the experience. But yeah, I'm an idealist, no doubt. Since I don't believe in perfect people, I prefer honest flawed people to hypocrites- and ANYONE who claims to be without flaw is a hypocrite.

 

[D_Cock_Hudson]

Childhood has got shorter and shorter and that is a sad thing. Some of it is because of the wish to protect children from evil that there is, but things like introducing children to commercial pressures, fashion, money, then i'm not so sure. Children have to grow up too soon.

 

[D_Humper E Bogart]

Holy shit! I was 23 when I posted in this thread last! Way to bump a thread!

 

[622675]

I used google translator on anna1967 comment above. Here is result. Holds together quite well.
https://translate.google.com (Russian to English)


sexualization of children now ... I don’t know .. when they had children in 75-80 years ago .... women were forgiven and men were put in the zone ... everyone was silent about it .. tell me which goat decided to issue a passport at age 15 and who allowed the children a computer and a mobile phone .. why did they destroy the father's right to parental upbringing and deprive many parents of their rights. separating the child from their relatives creating orphanages and homes for the disabled trying to cripple the lives of children ... no, this machine was launched a long time ago and not now .. and this the car was launched by the state of the country .. trust not only Portugal but also many countries will accept pedophilia as the norm \ because they accept 666 \ as need otherwise there is no salary and no pension ... and many countries will accept pedophilia so as not to be subject to sanctions ... so think for yourself to decide