Shock - Buffet says the rich aren't taxed enough!

[B_crackoff]

Only a third of tax revenue in the USA comes from income tax! The share of the national debt is EQUALLY DISTRIBUTED!

Federal State Local Government Revenue in United States 2011 - Charts Tables

This is interesting reading

Who Rules America: Wealth, Income, and Power

And this is shocking, considering the halving of the top rate of income tax by Reagan. The rich paid themselves double after that cut. Greed - & unearned @ that!

File:United States Income Distribution 1967-2003.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When most of the rich are making their money on subsidies financed by all, with tax breaks financed by all, & with low wages paid to their workers in order to go into their pockets themselves, whilst deciding to pay themselves in stocks in order to get a 15% tax rate, whilst wielding enormous economic power to keep the politicians to the status quo, then getting taxpayer & future American taxpayers to pay for loans & the interest thereon, in perpetuity, to bail out the economic mess they caused - without consequence - I think you have a pretty fucked up state of affairs.

Unfortunately, for many Americans- I perceive, the dream is to be the one doing the fucking, & not being the fucked. That greedy assed shit perpetuates this inequity.

Edit: BTW, no one on this site would call me a socialist, or left wing - but the facts speak for themselves. The rich are fucking over the poorer. Yes everyone MUST get out there & work - yes some inventors & entrepreneurs truly deserve benefits...

But most are management fuckwits who haven't come up with a single beneficial idea in their life - other than for themselves. Does anyone want to go back to the time of Barons & peasants - perhaps the USA should have it's queen back!

 

[Upperdown]

Only a third of tax revenue in the USA comes from income tax! The share of the national debt is EQUALLY DISTRIBUTED!

Nobody knows how the debt is divided, as we aren't paying it off. If debt is your problem I suggest you talk to your boy, he's really good at racking up unbelievable amounts of debt.

Federal State Local Government Revenue in United States 2011 - Charts Tables

This is interesting reading

Who Rules America: Wealth, Income, and Power

And this is shocking, considering the halving of the top rate of income tax by Reagan. The rich paid themselves double after that cut. Greed - & unearned @ that!

Explain how its "greed and unearned" You have no clue how they got this alleged money.

File:United States Income Distribution 1967-2003.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When most of the rich are making their money on subsidies financed by all, with tax breaks financed by all, & with low wages paid to their workers in order to go into their pockets themselves, whilst deciding to pay themselves in stocks in order to get a 15% tax rate, whilst wielding enormous economic power to keep the politicians to the status quo, then getting taxpayer & future American taxpayers to pay for loans & the interest thereon, in perpetuity, to bail out the economic mess they caused - without consequence - I think you have a pretty fucked up state of affairs.

This isn't a failure of the companies, its a failure of the government. The government should have never had the power to give away these kinds of benefits in the first place. Trying to wrangle some fix with that system in place is going to be impossible as the govenment, which is happing this seconds, will pick their friends as winners and their political enemies as losers in the economy. The only way to make it work is to remove government from the process.

Unfortunately, for many Americans- I perceive, the dream is to be the one doing the fucking, & not being the fucked. That greedy assed shit perpetuates this inequity.

Who is getting fucked? If you agree to work at a company offering $45k that doesn't entitle you to redefine the word 'fair' and get $100k. If you want more money go get it, don't count on the failures of democracy to take money from people you feel 'deserve' to have their money stolen.

Edit: BTW, no one on this site would call me a socialist, or left wing - but the facts speak for themselves. The rich are fucking over the poorer. Yes everyone MUST get out there & work - yes some inventors & entrepreneurs truly deserve benefits...

I work for a rich man. So does almost every private sector worker in this country. If these workers are so 'fucked over' then leave. Get another job that is 'fair.' Better yet, start a business and operation the principle that all is shared equally. Know why they won't? They're lazy. Its far easier to use democracy to out vote the people with money, saying all the while that this is about 'fairness' when its really just greed, jealousy, and sloth.

But most are management fuckwits who haven't come up with a single beneficial idea in their life - other than for themselves. Does anyone want to go back to the time of Barons & peasants - perhaps the USA should have it's queen back!

This is only about class war for you. Its all putrid hate and ignorance. Barons and peasants? You know that directly lead to the prosperity we have today? If it wasnt for people like Carnegie revolutionizing the steel industry we'd be right there with Tibet. I'm guessing in your world its a "workers paradise" where labor is not exploited but the highest level of industry. I'm racking my brain for where I've heard this before.....somewhere......very.....ummm....poor.

 

[deleted15807]

EXACTLY! ! ! ! Liberals seem to not understand that there is another source of money: work. Believe. It isn't a mythical thing. Putting in the hard work and mental elbow grease can reap massive rewards.

One doesn't need to put on ideological blinders to not see the trend and understand what it means to societies when wealth and power become concentrated. History tells us it will not end good when that happens. It's not a 'liberal idea' to study income disparity. It is a fact. It exists. Oh but I forget I'm not talking to a fact-based audience whom evolution is an 'idea' competing with 'intelligent design' and global warming is a hoax and abstinence-only education works and you can actually make peace by making war.

Productivity has surged, but income and wages have stagnated for most Americans over the last thirty years so there is a lot of 'hard' work going on. To suggest that all one needs to do is a little 'hard work' is an insult to every working American. With the demise of unions the American worker has no choice but to work the hours required or risk getting fired. The rich are getting vastly richer not by working hard but by rigging the system in their favor. The rubes have even taken on their language and their values as they fight against their own self-interest. Conservatives don't want to discuss the giant hole in 'trickle down economics' because in fact the point of the agenda is all the marbles go to the top. And keeping the bottom as miss-informed as possible. Witness the rise of Fox News. Study finds Fox News viewers most misinformed on issues


Winners Take All

And sometimes it's so obvious.
CEO pay soars while workers' pay stalls

 

[B_crackoff]

[/U][/B] Nobody knows how the debt is divided, as we aren't paying it off. If debt is your problem I suggest you talk to your boy, he's really good at racking up unbelievable amounts of debt.

I do know how it's divided meladdio - it's an equal share!

ALL lending is based on ALL future taxpayers paying their interest:biggrin1:

Explain how its "greed and unearned" You have no clue how they got this alleged money.
I'm guessing in your world its a "workers paradise" where labor is not exploited but the highest level of industry. I'm racking my brain for where I've heard this before.....somewhere......very.....ummm....poor.

Bleeding hell You must be new to put me on the side of BO!:tongue:

I am clever enough to be my own boss! You've admitted that you're quite happy that your boss only gives you whatever scraps he decides.

Perhaps I'll buy him out & enjoy fucking you over too!

I won't take that backchat then BOYO!:biggrin1: You'll know your fucking place & like it!:wink:

Back to your work minion. Your master is waiting!

 

[ripsrips]

Mr. Buffet purchased 5 billion in stocks in B of A to help stablize it last month...and today B of A announced it's cutting 30,000 jobs to save 5 billion...you really think he was tyring to help? He's part of the problem!

 

[B_crackoff]

Mr. Buffet purchased 5 billion in stocks in B of A to help stablize it last month...and today B of A announced it's cutting 30,000 jobs to save 5 billion...you really think he was tyring to help? He's part of the problem!

Sacking 200-1000 people would save BoA 5 billion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Upperdown]

Bleeding hell You must be new to put me on the side of BO!

I am clever enough to be my own boss! You've admitted that you're quite happy that your boss only gives you whatever scraps he decides.

Perhaps I'll buy him out & enjoy fucking you over too!

I won't take that backchat then BOYO! You'll know your fucking place & like it!

Back to your work minion. Your master is waiting!

You are on the side of BO, the left side.

You don't know how its divided. You said yourself that 1/3 of tax revenues come from the income tax, meaning 2/3's of the debt burden is somewhere else. Until its actually being paid down you have no idea how it comes down.


I don't care how clever you are, you're dead wrong on this.

I am happy working where I do. I get no benefits, no paid vacations, no sick days, and no raises. I agreed to it. It would be extremely cowardly and disgustingly immoral for me to show up tomorrow, knowing full well I agreed to those terms, and demand double or triple my wage. Worse yet is to call that "fair." Its wrong, period.

My master(s) treats me fair and holds up his end of the deal. If they decide to not pay me then we have an issue.

Enjoy fucking me over? I thought you said it was wrong and evil? Don't be condescending to me, its pathetic.

 

[Upperdown]

One doesn't need to put on ideological blinders to not see the trend and understand what it means to societies when wealth and power become concentrated. History tells us it will not end good when that happens. It's not a 'liberal idea' to study income disparity. It is a fact. It exists.

Nobody disputed that it exists, the question is does it matter. In a free market society it absolutely doesn't matter. Whats really concerning is when government power becomes overwhelming and concentrated, we end up with 'workers paradises' that enslave tens of millions, have genocides and wars, and starve people in droves.

Oh but I forget I'm not talking to a fact-based audience whom evolution is an 'idea' competing with 'intelligent design' and global warming is a hoax and abstinence-only education works and you can actually make peace by making war.

Who are you talking to? Evolution is an idea, maybe Merriam-Webster could help you there. Global warming is a fact, its anthropogenic global warming thats in question. Abstinance education should be taught along with other theories, we don't know what will keep a particular teenager from getting pregnant but they should have every opportunity to choose their future. Peace by making war? I only recently began to believe that when we started bombing Libya. I think most people on this planet enjoy having drones blow up their schools.

Productivity has surged, but income and wages have stagnated for most Americans over the last thirty years so there is a lot of 'hard' work going on. To suggest that all one needs to do is a little 'hard work' is an insult to every working American. With the demise of unions the American worker has no choice but to work the hours required or risk getting fired. The rich are getting vastly richer not by working hard but by rigging the system in their favor. The rubes have even taken on their language and their values as they fight against their own self-interest. Conservatives don't want to discuss the giant hole in 'trickle down economics' because in fact the point of the agenda is all the marbles go to the top. And keeping the bottom as miss-informed as possible. Witness the rise of Fox News.

Income and wages have stagnated? What planet are you on? You ever compare apples to apples on this one? How many hours did the average person have to work to purchase a washer and dryer in 1975? How many hours do they have to work now? Get back to me.

Workers should have to work or risk getting fired. There has been no 'demise' of the unions; how dramatic you are. The rich are getting richer because the political class wants their support. If we remove barriers to entry of the market place, end corporate/union welfare, and remove government regulations, we can drastically improve the situation of people all over the world! If I prayed much I'd pray that the rich got MUCH richer. stinky filthy unbelievably wealthy. Why? Because they can't stuff that money in a mattress. They have to invest it. Buying stocks is nothing without the extremely complex companies and individuals that make those stocks increase in value. The richer they get, the richer I get. You may notice how wonderfully your class war has worked out for the average worker. You can open a history book to see previous attempts, too.

Trickle down is sound. What isn't sound is BO's trickle up poverty. I don't want to be poor and miserable, but you liberals wont stop till I am.

Study finds Fox News viewers most misinformed on issues

That study has been widely debunked. You ever look at the answer to those questions? How they graded people? They took the administration line as being the 'correct' one. Fox News viewers were the most opposed to the conclusions of the administration. Those who scored highly on that study were the most indoctrinated and unwilling to question the administration.

The Baltimore Sun’s television critic, David Zurawik, wrote a column shortly after the study appeared, expressing skepticism about the study.

Zurawik wrote, "what you have for the definition of a respondent who is considered ‘informed’ is essentially someone who agrees with the conclusions of experts in government agencies. When specific questions in the survey are framed around facts, like who was president when a certain piece of legislation passed, you can say someone is misinformed." But that’s not the case with some of this survey’s questions.

One question from the study that struck us as one that ordinary Americans might answer differently than economists asked, "Do you think now that the American economy is (a) starting to recover, or (b) still getting worse?" The study based the "correct" answer -- that the economy has begun to recover -- on the widely accepted judgment of when the last recession ended, as well as gross domestic product estimates and statistics for personal income. However, given the phrasing of the question, a respondent might think the question was asking for a personal opinion of how the recovery was going, rather than what the official statistics say.

Other question were:

Do you think the stimulus created jobs? Fox News viewers (correctly by historical standards) said no. To boot, we lost 2.2 million jobs after that piece of legislation passed. Liberal agencies viewers were the most indoctrinated saying yes. You got a point for saying yes, even though ti was wrong.

Do you think Obamacare will increase the deficit: Fox Viewers, again, said yes (correctly). Liberal viewers said no. The study quotes Obamas CBO as the source of 'correct' information. Of course history now shows us that Obama just flat out lied to get it passed.

So we have three Pew studies that superficially rank Fox viewers low on the well-informed list, but in several of the surveys, Fox isn’t the lowest, and other general-interest media outlets -- such as network news shows, network morning shows and even the other cable news networks -- often score similarly low. Meanwhile, particular Fox shows -- such as The O’Reilly Factor and Sean Hannity’s show -- actually score consistently well, occasionally even outpacing Stewart’s own audience.

 

[Upperdown]

For anyone who is interested:

A video debunking the "Fox News Viewers Are Misinformed" study: He doesn't leave a shred of that study.

Fox News Viewers Are Misinformed Study, The Critique - YouTube

 

[dandelion]

Of course you exclude the value of their homes, thats where the majority of their wealth is.

I dont undrstand. The first set of figures presumably includes the value of their homes, because the second figure is calculated excluding it. However, when did you last offer to pay for your groceries or a new car by offering a portion of your home in exchange? It is paper wealth which cannot ever be realised.

Heres something for you: Guess Who Really Pays the Taxes — The American Magazine

I see they start by saying there are a range of views on whether taxes are fair or not.

The wealthiest 1 percent of the population earn 19 per*cent of the income but pay 37 percent of the income tax. The top 10 percent pay 68 percent of the tab. Meanwhile, the bottom 50 percent—those below the median income level—now earn 13 percent of the income but pay just 3 percent of the taxes.

So what did you conclude from this? Since the top 1% has 35% of the wealth but is only receiving 19% of the income, I would suggest to you that they are deliberately manipulating the figures so that they get capital gain rather than income. Capital gain being taxed at a much lower rate. Paying 37% of the total tax in fact is pretty much in line with their share of total wealth. Given that the rich can afford to pay much more tax than the poor - they should be paying a much bigger proportion than they currently are.

These are proportions of the income tax alone and don’t include payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare.

The lesson I give above is that all taxes and measures of wealth must be considered together before any real conclusions can be drawn.

I presume you also think it is just for a small number of people to hold all the wealth of the US?

Absolutely, 100%, without any doubt or hesitations, yes. They can hold whatever they earned. If they stole it, then its not just. If they practised crony capitalism (think BoA, Obama, and Democrats) then that isn't just. If they, like Apple, produce a great product that people want then they deserve 100% of everything they have.

So its ok to be ripped off by apple but not by BoA? Both are selling something which a few years later will be seen as worthless.

EXACTLY! ! ! ! Liberals seem to not understand that there is another source of money: work.

But what is a fair price for that work? Should a roadsweeper doing boring work be paid more in compensation than a banker who gets to spend his life gambling for free? Work is not paid according to sensible measures. Usually those who have the ability to choose who gets paid most, choose to pay themselves most. That is why we have union, votes and law to redress this balance.

This isn't a failure of the companies, its a failure of the government. The government should have never had the power to give away these kinds of benefits in the first place. Trying to wrangle some fix with that system in place is going to be impossible as the govenment, which is happing this seconds, will pick their friends as winners and their political enemies as losers in the economy. The only way to make it work is to remove government from the process.

Hardly. You are saying because people cannot agree on what the government should do, it should be abolished. Everyone believes governmet is necessary. Everyone undertsands a government needs money to run. Everyone knows that you can only tax people who have money. Then we get to arguing about which groups are benefitting most and which ought to pay most. Then the row starts.

If you agree to work at a company offering $45k that doesn't entitle you to redefine the word 'fair' and get $100k.

It doesnt entitle you, but is doesnt disentitle you either. The fact they you happened to be a slave in the US legitimately bought by someone did not disentitle you from demanding freedom as a matter of justice.

I work for a rich man. So does almost every private sector worker in this country. If these workers are so 'fucked over' then leave. Get another job that is 'fair.'

So when did your rich man decide to pay double wages? WHich other rich man is paying double wages for the same work? Which rich man, even if he believes his men deserve more money because frankly they do more work then he does, could pay them what he believed to be fair and stay in business? The only way this system can be regulated so the men get fair pay is if the government intervenes. Usually this means the men getting together and saying matters are ridiculous, then withdrawing their labour until national pay rates go up. But for matters to get that far is already a failure of the system. Governments are necessary to ensure those who would otherwise be exploited get a fair share.

This is only about class war for you. Its all putrid hate and ignorance. Barons and peasants? You know that directly lead to the prosperity we have today? If it wasnt for people like Carnegie revolutionizing the steel industry we'd be right there with Tibet.

So how much does one man deserve for one idea? Especially when you stop and think and realise that most ideas happen because the time is right, but that one lucky sod got to the idea just a littler bit faster than anyone else. Also however, the few with a truly useful idea are vastly outnumbered by the many who are just pushing paper. It is the banking industry which presently exemplifies this. People get massive salaries and bonuses despite bankrupting the world???

 

[dandelion]

Whats really concerning is when government power becomes overwhelming and concentrated, we end up with 'workers paradises' that enslave tens of millions, have genocides and wars, and starve people in droves.

You talking about the modern US? Most people would say the starvation is not directly the fault of the US, but of course, you are correct they have contributed to it.

I think most people on this planet enjoy having drones blow up their schools.

Certainly some do, but I didnt know the US had gone this far. Just underfunds them.

Income and wages have stagnated? What planet are you on? You ever compare apples to apples on this one? How many hours did the average person have to work to purchase a washer and dryer in 1975?

I think there is general consensus that in the 70's matters were improving for the majority of the population. People remember, like you, that this was so. There is a dawning realisation that in the last decade matters have been going backwards despite apparently growing wealth.

Workers should have to work or risk getting fired. There has been no 'demise' of the unions; how dramatic you are.

This is not a simple matter. It is fact that many industries do not make as much profit as they once did, so do not justify higher pay levels. But it is equally fact that companies do not play fair and volunteer to pay more when the circumstances suggest they should. There are problems about companies simply moving to a different country where labour is cheap. Then there is the huge problem of the financial sector which has been touted as everyone's saviour, but all it really does is trade paper, eternally taking a percentage on every transaction at the expense of everyone else. How about removing that cost from business and the private citizen?

The rich are getting richer because the political class wants their support.

Exactly so. Not because they deserve to or have worked for it.

If I prayed much I'd pray that the rich got MUCH richer. stinky filthy unbelievably wealthy. Why? Because they can't stuff that money in a mattress. They have to invest it. Buying stocks is nothing without the extremely complex companies and individuals that make those stocks increase in value.

Surely, buying stocks makes no difference whatsoever to how a company performs? Occasionally they issue new stock to raise capital but normally all that is happening is the price of pieces of paper is going up and up and up. All that money just buys pieces of paper. can you think of anything more wasteful to do with that money?

Do you think Obamacare will increase the deficit: Fox Viewers, again, said yes (correctly). Liberal viewers said no.

Of course it will increase government costs. Whether that will increase the deficit rather depends on whether someone takes measures to raise money to pay for it. Whether the nation will be better or worse off is a different question to what happens to the deficit and is the real one to be asked. The US system of healthcare is plainly disfunctional.

 

[deleted15807]

Nobody disputed that it exists, the question is does it matter. In a free market society it absolutely doesn't matter. Whats really concerning is when government power becomes overwhelming and concentrated, we end up with 'workers paradises' that enslave tens of millions, have genocides and wars, and starve people in droves.

It's clear you've left planet Earth and into an alternate reality with the rest of the FoxFauxFixed News viewers. As expected you don't address wealth and historically societies with vast differences in wealth ultimately fail. No the problem is government (of course). A 'free society' is meaningless when the vast majority of that society's wealth is controlled by the few. The government is now essentially owned by the few. Plutocracy NOW!! The financial collapse of 2008 proved that crystal clear and worldwide governments rescue of that industry. And the fight going on right now to ensure no government regulations exist to prevent it from happening again.

The Silent Coup

And 'there has been no demise of unions'? Now I know you've now left the solar system. Only 6.9% of the private sector are represented by unions and declining.
Organized labor is in a death spiral.

 

[StormfrontFL]

You should do more research.


50% of the lowest income households in the United State pay $0 in federal taxes. Explain how its fair for 50% of the people to pay $0 and everyone else to carry the entire load. That bottom 50% uses roads, port security, the EPA, the DOT, ect ect ect ect ect, just like everyone else. Wouldn't it be fair if they paid something?

I got a full refund from the fed this year. I couldn't believe I was going to get a check for every penny I paid. I didn't cash that check. Its my duty to pay something for living in this country. I feel its unjust to make people who have more money than me pay for the services I use.

This isn't about "fair share" or "just amounts" its about class warfare. Anyone who watched the debt ceiling debates had to walk away saying that the Democrats only care about continuing their absurd class war. I don't see that in the Republicans. Cut, Cap, Balance was probably the single most appropriate piece of legislation we've seen in decades.

So how do you feel about corporations that make billions in profits, pay nothing in federal taxes, and even receive a refund? Judging by your other responses in this thread I would assume you see nothing wrong with the rich and powerful getting more.

 

[deleted15807]

For anyone who is interested:

A video debunking the "Fox News :crazy2::crazy2::crazy2:

I'm sorry Fred but I don't gather research on youtube (there is no editor). I'm sure it's an excellent source for a person of your caliber.

 

[Upperdown]

It's clear you've left planet Earth and into an alternate reality with the rest of the FoxFauxFixed News viewers. As expected you don't address wealth and historically societies with vast differences in wealth ultimately fail. No the problem is government (of course). A 'free society' is meaningless when the vast majority of that society's wealth is controlled by the few. The government is now essentially owned by the few. Plutocracy NOW!! The financial collapse of 2008 proved that crystal clear and worldwide governments rescue of that industry. And the fight going on right now to ensure no government regulations exist to prevent it from happening again.

The Silent Coup

And 'there has been no demise of unions'? Now I know you've now left the solar system. Only 6.9% of the private sector are represented by unions and declining.
Organized labor is in a death spiral.

I don't need to address that. There have been many societies with vast wealth disparities that have done exceptionally well. Depending on when you're talking both the Roman and British empires had astonishing gaps, and they ran that way for many years.


No, a free society is still a free society. If you want there to be a fair playing field you need to elect politicians that will further limit the scope of government power. As it stands right now we're poised to ensure there is no way for startups to enter the market place without massive capital investments; thus making it more difficult, again.

There are still unions. To go all dramatic about the good ol' days is nonsense. Again, its almost impossible to get a new union certified. This is because existing unions have used the governments power to keep out new unions that would do a much better job. Crony capitalism; that is all.

 

[Upperdown]

I'm sorry Fred but I don't gather research on youtube (there is no editor). I'm sure it's an excellent source for a person of your caliber.

HAHA!

Typical ignorant liberal.

The good news about that video is he cites back to the study, and the studies sources. Its a follow along. If you don't believe him he shows you exactly where he got the information. That study isn't fit to be toilet paper.

 

[Upperdown]

So how do you feel about corporations that make billions in profits, pay nothing in federal taxes, and even receive a refund? Judging by your other responses in this thread I would assume you see nothing wrong with the rich and powerful getting more.

A 100% refund of $0! That would be a huge amount.

I feel fine about it.

There IS nothing wrong with them getting more. There is something extremely wrong with waging a class war because you're:
jealous
envious
overly materialistic
greedy
hateful
ignorant
covetous
resentful
lazy
spiteful
thoughtless
or lack creativity.

 

[deleted15807]

I don't need to address that. There have been many societies with vast wealth disparities that have done exceptionally well. Depending on when you're talking both the Roman and British empires had astonishing gaps, and they ran that way for many years.

And they ultimately?? Failed. Failed. Failed. No lassiez-faire proponent wants to address that. Trickle down economics doesn't work. Never did.

Just out today:
Americans Got Poorer in 2010, Census Bureau Reports

but we know who didn't get poorer:

CEO Pay Soars

Conservatives used to say 'A rising tide lifts all boats'. Well that's another big fat lie.

You know a country is in trouble when the CEO's pay exceeds the tax bill.

 

[Upperdown]

QUOTE=dandelion;3690115]I don’t understand. The first set of figures presumably includes the value of their homes, because the second figure is calculated excluding it. However, when did you last offer to pay for your groceries or a new car by offering a portion of your home in exchange? It is paper wealth which cannot ever be realized.[/quote] They are comparing net worth to yearly income. Those things are not apples to apples. They did that so their finding would appear 'stark.' You may notice in footnote 2 that they explain:
"We used Sweden’s income rather than wealth distribution because
it provided a clearer contrast to the other two wealth distribution
examples; although more equal than the United States’ wealth distribution,
Sweden’s wealth distribution is still extremely top heavy." Unreal how easy it is convince liberals/socialists that they're right.

I see they start by saying there are a range of views on whether taxes are fair or not.

There isn't? This is a statement of fact.

So what did you conclude from this? Since the top 1% has 35% of the wealth but is only receiving 19% of the income, I would suggest to you that they are deliberately manipulating the figures so that they get capital gain rather than income. Capital gain being taxed at a much lower rate. Paying 37% of the total tax in fact is pretty much in line with their share of total wealth. Given that the rich can afford to pay much more tax than the poor - they should be paying a much bigger proportion than they currently are.

They are manipulating nothing. They are taking their money out in the manner described in the tax code. There is no 'manipulation.' They can afford whatever they want, the shouldn't be required to pay anything more than the cost each and every person should be required to pay to cover the expenses of living in this society. Not only that, you seem to think you can just tax away their money and there is nothing they can do about it. Let me tell you what rich people do: they leave. They take their 'worthless' ideas and business elsewhere and create wealth for another less greedy and jealous people.

The lesson I give above is that all taxes and measures of wealth must be considered together before any real conclusions can be drawn.

I fail to see how they're relevant to considerations of how much you should be taxed.

So it’s ok to be ripped off by apple but not by BoA? Both are selling something which a few years later will be seen as worthless.

So, when you bought your Ipod, you got ripped off? Why did you buy it?
And no, it’s not ok for the government to use its coercive powers, usually the threat of force, to manipulate the market. They literally stole tax payer’s money, gave it to BoA, and reaped the benefit. This is unjust.

But what is a fair price for that work? Should a road sweeper doing boring work be paid more in compensation than a banker who gets to spend his life gambling for free? Work is not paid according to sensible measures. Usually those who have the ability to choose who gets paid most, choose to pay themselves most. That is why we have union, votes and law to redress this balance.

First, that’s a value question. We can get anyone to sweep the road, which requires almost no training or education. A good "gambler" that does the due diligence, sees the forces at play, and has the intellect to make the correct decision is a very valuable thing. I would definitely pay MUCH more for the bank; and do. These are 100% sensible. Everyone has the ability to choose what they get paid. If you aren't happy with what you have go get something better. Don't demand it by force. And that’s why I fight unjust unions, laws and ignorance; to remedy the injustice.

Hardly. You are saying because people cannot agree on what the government should do, it should be abolished. Everyone believes government is necessary. Everyone understands a government needs money to run. Everyone knows that you can only tax people who have money. Then we get to arguing about which groups are benefitting most and which ought to pay most. Then the row starts.

Not once did I say "abolished." You're arguing with your mythical Republican again. The government does have a job. Their job is not to handle the money of this society. They must be shrunk, constrained, marginalized, and curtailed.

It doesn’t entitle you, but is doesn’t disentitle you either. The fact they you happened to be a slave in the US legitimately bought by someone did not disentitle you from demanding freedom as a matter of justice.

By definition: yes it does. If you agree to work for a said rate then that’s your word. To simply go back on your word every time you have fit of jealousy is small minded, dishonest, and shameful. I'm not a slave, I'm paid for my work and I can quit whenever I want. No person in the United States, that hasn't otherwise voluntarily agreed, is prevented from quitting their job.

So when did your rich man decide to pay double wages? Which other rich man is paying double wages for the same work? Which rich man, even if he believes his men deserve more money because frankly they do more work than he does, could pay them what he believed to be fair and stay in business? The only way this system can be regulated so the men get fair pay is if the government intervenes. Usually this means the men getting together and saying matters are ridiculous, then withdrawing their labor until national pay rates go up. But for matters to get that far is already a failure of the system. Governments are necessary to ensure those who would otherwise be exploited get a fair share.

HA! That’s bringing the wolf in the house! Look at societies where the government intervened. They destroyed their society. Everyone was poor. That’s EXACTLY what the left wants. That way their jealousy and greed has nowhere to go.

So how much does one man deserve for one idea? Especially when you stop and think and realize that most ideas happen because the time is right, but that one lucky sod got to the idea just a little bit faster than anyone else. Also however, the few with a truly useful idea are vastly outnumbered by the many that are just pushing paper. It is the banking industry which presently exemplifies this. People get massive salaries and bonuses despite bankrupting the world???

He deservedsevery reward he can claim by it. If that’s how you think ideas come about, then that explains entirely your political beliefs. This is the result of slothfulness and laziness. By 'pushing paper' do you mean "trying desperately to deprive the diligent and thoughtful people of their earned rewards"? My whole life I've worked around "paper pushers." People that gave up wealth in the name of more job security, more time off, a regular schedule, no hard work, not having to think through problems. What did I learn? They don't want to put in the work, but they all (you) want the rewards.

 

[Upperdown]

And they ultimately?? Failed. Failed. Failed. No lassiez-faire proponent wants to address that. Trickle down economics doesn't work. Never did.

Yeah, only took then a few hundred years. Show me one society that has ran perfect forever. I can show you dozens that have 'redistributed wealth' and failed in a handful of years.

Just out today:

Americans Got Poorer in 2010, Census Bureau Reports

Thank your president for that.

but we know who didn't get poorer:

CEO Pay Soars

Conservatives used to say 'A rising tide lifts all boats'. Well that's another big fat lie.

You know a country is in trouble when the CEO's pay exceeds the tax bill.

Good for those CEO's. They took pay cuts during the recession to keep as many people employed as they could, now the moneys back they should have less of a cut.

Rising tide? It says average wage rose by 2.1%. So it did lift all boats, by your very article. Which also means they are making more money. So, why are Americans poorer? Quantitative Easing.

Umm...thats how you know society is improving. I hope some day everyone makes more than their companies tax bill.

You gotta get that drama thing under control. The greed thing, too.