Shock - Buffet says the rich aren't taxed enough!

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deleted15807

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Thank your president for that.

Yeah I'm sure his two years in office did the trick. :rolleyes: I'm curious how is one man responsible for that? He doesn't write laws. Congress does. He is not a monarch, he can't simply issue decrees. I'm sure you have acute amnesia but it was the millions thrown out of jobs during the financial collapse during the Bush presidency that has caused the dramatic rise.

Good for those CEO's. They took pay cuts during the recession to keep as many people employed as they could, now the moneys back they should have less of a cut

Now that is hilarious!! This statement is absurd on so many levels. If that's not the biggest load of horseshit I've seen in many months.
A grim fact of the recession is that it pays to lay people off.

The CEOs who laid off the most employees during the recession are also the CEOs who took home the biggest pay checks, according to a study released last week.
Laying people off is the quick and most effective way of reducing expenses and boosting profit. And it's the profit number that determines how much a CEO is paid.
 

StormfrontFL

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A 100% refund of $0! That would be a huge amount.

I feel fine about it.

There IS nothing wrong with them getting more. There is something extremely wrong with waging a class war because you're:
jealous
envious
overly materialistic
greedy
hateful
ignorant
covetous
resentful
lazy
spiteful
thoughtless
or lack creativity.
You have gone from annoying to just sad. You have no problem with corporations making billions in profits, paying no taxes, and because of loopholes managing to receive billions in refunds/benefits and yet you hate people who get get a few hundred back. I never thought anyone could be more delusional than " The Holy He/She/It" but you made the one that shall not be named seem sane.

General Electric Paid No Federal Taxes in 2010 - ABC News
 
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deleted15807

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You have gone from annoying to just sad. You have no problem with corporations making billions in profits, paying no taxes, and because of loopholes managing to receive billions in refunds/benefits and yet you hate people who get get a few hundred back. I never thought anyone could be more delusional than "http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/general-electric-paid-federal-taxes-2010/story?id=13224558

The only living thing conservatives care about are fetuses. But after you're born its FUCK OFF....eat shit and die.

GOP Tea Party Debate: Audience Cheers, Says Society Should Let Uninsured Patient Die
 

Upperdown

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You have gone from annoying to just sad. You have no problem with corporations making billions in profits, paying no taxes, and because of loopholes managing to receive billions in refunds/benefits and yet you hate people who get get a few hundred back. I never thought anyone could be more delusional than " The Holy He/She/It" but you made the one that shall not be named seem sane.

General Electric Paid No Federal Taxes in 2010 - ABC News
HA! Loophools! HA! Capital gains, green tax credits (looking at you Democrats), write off losses from previous years, these things have been around for a long time. Stop acting like the wool was pulled over everyones eyes.

I don't hate anyone except those that vote based on hate, ignorance, and/or greed. Do I think its completely unjust that some people live here for free while other have to pay for them? Yep, fact.

GE gets special benefits because Immelt is personal friends with Obama. The IRS knows if they give GE any trouble they'll be getting a call. This is called "crony capitalism" and is a huge problem with our system.
 

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deleted15807

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They cheered for personal responsibility. Amazing how liberals spin things, then forget the spin; ultimately believing their own nonsense.

You clearly didn't watch the video. They cheered when the host said 'should we let them die'. It is no spin. Just as they cheered Perry's Death Penalty Record.

Audience Cheers Perry’s Death Penalty Record

You conservatives are just sick fucks who love to kill and then wrap Jesus around your sins every Sunday morning.
 

Upperdown

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Yeah I'm sure his two years in office did the trick. :rolleyes: I'm curious how is one man responsible for that? He doesn't write laws. Congress does. He is not a monarch, he can't simply issue decrees. I'm sure you have acute amnesia but it was the millions thrown out of jobs during the financial collapse during the Bush presidency that has caused the dramatic rise.
So, you're saying he's so incompetent that he can't fix anything in 2 years and 8 months? Not one thing? Amazing. He doesn't write laws? This president has been using the executive order as his personal legislature. The democrats controlled the congress and the house for 2 years of his 2.6 years. If they could fix it, they would.

I thought Obama was elected because he 'promised' that he could fix this problem? Is that not true? Can he not fix it? Let me guess, it will take him exactly 4 more years to do so.



Now that is hilarious!! This statement is absurd on so many levels. If that's not the biggest load of horseshit I've seen in many months.
Thats is what YOUR article says: their pay is still not back to prerecession levels. You act like you can just lie and have us all believe it. Busted.
A grim fact of the recession is that it pays to lay people off.


You should teach finance classes with witty statements like that. When your sales plummet you have two choice

1) Keep production the same and create massive inventories, prompting a major sell off.
2) Slow prodution to the rate of sales. We call this the "common sense" choice for obvious reasons.

Stop acting like layoffs are some conspiracy.

.
boosting profit.
Generally companies are just trying to maintain their current status or minimize losses.

Good for them. In the face of an anti-business/worker/everything-else president those companies managed to employ hundreds of thousands of people. Keeping people working through some of the worst economic times in US history. I know you won't give them credit for that, but those CEO's deserve respect and praise for making extremely difficult decisions.
 

Upperdown

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You clearly didn't watch the video. They cheered when the host said 'should we let them die'. It is no spin. Just as they cheered Perry's Death Penalty Record.

Audience Cheers Perry’s Death Penalty Record

You conservatives are just sick fucks who love to kill and then wrap Jesus around your sins every Sunday morning.

I watched the entire debate. They were cheering for personal responsibility, then they were cheering for being hard on crime. Americans have believed in the death penalty for generations, to say that they are NOW sick fucks is ignorant.

Sick fucks? Whatever happened to tolerance and acceptance?

We aren't "sick fucks" we're people who believe that for this world to get better we must take responsibility for ourselves. Once our own house is taken care of then we have a duty to society but, not through the inefficient and oppressive government; though chairty. Conservatives firmly believe that what they are doing will make the world a better place, keeping the means just.

Just because you don't see the world in the same terms doesn't give you a right to call people 'sick fucks.' Learn to accept other people, not let your ignorance fester to the point of hate and intollerance.

I don't see anyone wrapping Jesus around anything. Not only that, they don't believe they sinned by killing criminals.
 

dandelion

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They are comparing net worth to yearly income. Those things are not apples to apples. They did that so their finding would appear 'stark.' You may notice in footnote 2 that they explain:
"We used Sweden’s income rather than wealth distribution because
it provided a clearer contrast to the other two wealth distribution
examples; although more equal than the United States’ wealth distribution,
Sweden’s wealth distribution is still extremely top heavy." Unreal how easy it is convince liberals/socialists that they're right.
I quoted some figures they say are wealth distribution for the US. I see no footnotes about sweden but the table just below this piece of text says ".
Total assets are defined as the sum of: (1) the gross value of owner-occupied housing; (2) other real estate owned by the household; (3) cash and demand deposits; (4) time and savings deposits, certificates of deposit, and money market accounts; (5) government bonds, corporate bonds, foreign bonds, and other financial securities; (6) the cash surrender value of life insurance plans; (7) the cash surrender value of pension plans, including IRAs, Keogh, and 401(k) plans; (8) corporate stock and mutual funds; (9) net equity in unincorporated businesses; and (10) equity in trust funds.
Total liabilities are the sum of: (1) mortgage debt; (2) consumer debt, including auto loans; and (3) other debt. From Wolff (2004, 2007, & 2010)."


They are manipulating nothing. They are taking their money out in the manner described in the tax code. There is no 'manipulation.'
I understand there are people who are called accountants, whose main job is to arrange financial affairs to minimise tax paid. I didnt suggest that what they do is illegal but I dont understand how what they do is not 'deliberate manipulation' of their clients financial affairs. It seems currently fashionable to charge significantly lower capital taxes than income taxes. The distinction between the two however is not clear cut and people can arrange that the value of assets rises rather than they get given an annual cash payment. The proportion of income received by the rich is about half what might be expected considering tthe proportion of assets they own, suggesting they are cheating the system by taking their income as capital gains. Perhaps accountants have very good PR agents who have given the impression they can rearrange your financial affairs to reduce your tax bill when they cannot, but if so they have fooled the entire world.

you seem to think you can just tax away their money and there is nothing they can do about it. Let me tell you what rich people do: they leave. They take their 'worthless' ideas and business elsewhere and create wealth for another less greedy and jealous people.
An academic was discussing this the other day. Said he had made a study of people who said they would leave the UK if tax rose...and none of them did. This may be one small consideration but experience is that anyone who says he will leave is lying. Certainly rich people go elsewhere but minor changes in personal tax are not the reason. Worse than this, how can you plan an economy on the basis of taxing people who will run away if there is a small change in tax? better to let them run and work with whatever reliable income source you have.


I fail to see how they're relevant to considerations of how much you should be taxed.
You do not think it relevant that if capital tax is 15% and income tax is 50% people arrange that they get their pay as 'capital', thereby avoiding 35% of their tax bill? A sensible person would perhaps raise capital taxes because they notice that they must consider the whole picture?

First, that’s a value question. We can get anyone to sweep the road, which requires almost no training or education.
Actually, we cant. I understand the US imports mexicans to do jobs which americans refuse to do. Likewise the Uk imports Poles. The jobs are being grossly underpaid but employers are cheating by hiring in cheap labour from abroad. This just undermines the home economy. It suites the boss to believe he deserves a lot of money to sit in his chair all day when he would refuse to do the cleaning.

A good "gambler" that does the due diligence, sees the forces at play, and has the intellect to make the correct decision is a very valuable thing.
For whom? For society which gets ripped off when he is making moneyat the expense of ordinary ciizens.?


I'm not a slave, I'm paid for my work and I can quit whenever I want.
I am happy for you. Most people would find the bank reposessing the home because they are no longer making payments and the grocery store refusing to give them food because they have no money to pay for it.

Look at societies where the government intervened. They destroyed their society. Everyone was poor.
Us, Uk, Germany, Japan, China, India, France, Spain, Canada...nearly every country in the world...There is no country which does not need government intervention.

My whole life I've worked around "paper pushers." People that gave up wealth in the name of more job security, more time off, a regular schedule, no hard work, not having to think through problems. What did I learn? They don't want to put in the work, but they all (you) want the rewards.
Jealous? We live in a very rich society which frankly wastes most of the so called wealth it creates. Of course we do not need to work as hard as we do!
 

D_Percy_Prettywillie

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I watched the entire debate. They were cheering for personal responsibility, then they were cheering for being hard on crime. Americans have believed in the death penalty for generations, to say that they are NOW sick fucks is ignorant.

Sick fucks? Whatever happened to tolerance and acceptance?

We aren't "sick fucks" we're people who believe that for this world to get better we must take responsibility for ourselves. Once our own house is taken care of then we have a duty to society but, not through the inefficient and oppressive government; though chairty. Conservatives firmly believe that what they are doing will make the world a better place, keeping the means just.

Just because you don't see the world in the same terms doesn't give you a right to call people 'sick fucks.' Learn to accept other people, not let your ignorance fester to the point of hate and intollerance.

I don't see anyone wrapping Jesus around anything. Not only that, they don't believe they sinned by killing criminals.


Whoa, whoa, whoa, cowboy, don't paint it like the rest of the United States thought that applauding the execution of more than two hundred people well before any other point had been established contextually was palatable. We didn't. Plenty of Americans don't believe in the death penalty at all period, and when you add on those who support a moratorium on it and those who believe the system is in deep need of an overhaul, that number shrinks even further.

If you're going to wave the flag for Law and Order do so in a fashion (especially when addressing an international audience) that doesn't employ the affection of speaking from the majority when in reality that number decreases everyday. We're one of only a handful of countries that still executes minors so before you go on a tirade about the justice of our society take a step back and look at our system from the perspective of someone who didn't just ingest a cow for breakfast.



JSZ
 

StormfrontFL

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HA! Loophools! HA! Capital gains, green tax credits (looking at you Democrats), write off losses from previous years, these things have been around for a long time. Stop acting like the wool was pulled over everyones eyes.

I don't hate anyone except those that vote based on hate, ignorance, and/or greed. Do I think its completely unjust that some people live here for free while other have to pay for them? Yep, fact.

So you have no problem with big business sing the tax laws to get refunds but think that if anyone middle class does the same thing it's just being greedy?

I also take it from your statement you hate Republicans/Teabaggers. They tend to vote based on hate, ignorance, and greed. Anti gay legislation. Gotta stop them Muslims from building their mosques. "Obamacare" has death panels because Fox said it does. Taxes are too high even though it is the lowest rate in decades. There you have it, all three
 

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Whoa, whoa, whoa, cowboy, don't paint it like the rest of the United States thought that applauding the execution of more than two hundred people well before any other point had been established contextually was palatable. We didn't. Plenty of Americans don't believe in the death penalty at all period, and when you add on those who support a moratorium on it and those who believe the system is in deep need of an overhaul, that number shrinks even further.

If you're going to wave the flag for Law and Order do so in a fashion (especially when addressing an international audience) that doesn't employ the affection of speaking from the majority when in reality that number decreases everyday. We're one of only a handful of countries that still executes minors so before you go on a tirade about the justice of our society take a step back and look at our system from the perspective of someone who didn't just ingest a cow for breakfast.
You may notice that I was talking from the stand point of the clapping 'conservatives'. The statement "American believed in blah blah blah" doesn't imply a majority. It, technically, means more than two Americans.

I don't agree with the death penalty. What I'm discussing with you is your immediate jump to an opinion about the "sick fucks" in the audience. You need to understand they aren't clapping for death. That is your ignorance telling you that. They are clapping for what they believe to be law and order. Are they misguided? YES. Does that mean they are 'sick fucks'? No.

Not only do I not support the death penalty, I'm going to have a long hard thought about voting third party if Perry gets the nomination. What he did to Todd Willingham was disgusting and wrong. And a prime example of why the death penalty should be halted.
 

Upperdown

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So you have no problem with big business sing the tax laws to get refunds but think that if anyone middle class does the same thing it's just being greedy?

I also take it from your statement you hate Republicans/Teabaggers. They tend to vote based on hate, ignorance, and greed. Anti gay legislation. Gotta stop them Muslims from building their mosques. "Obamacare" has death panels because Fox said it does. Taxes are too high even though it is the lowest rate in decades. There you have it, all three

Man, you read poorly. I will repost this again, maybe you'll get it this time: "Do I think its completely unjust that some people live here for free while other have to pay for them? Yep, fact."

If those corporations are taking advantage of the tax payer to exist in the United States then that is wrong.

Its like your talking to some idea of a Republican that you thought up.

TeaBaggers? Is that your example of how much better than 'them' you are?

I have had SO many debates with my Republican friends about gay marriage that we don't discuss it any more. I've converted some. In fact, I just had a convert the other day...but from the left. The right is easier to debate, I believe, as they work on more readily defined principles. Once you get them in a tizy about how the government needs to stay out of their lives, and so does everyone else, you ask them about gay marriage and drugs. They back track and know they're doing it. I figured out I wasn't a Republican because of their inconsistant stance on gay marriage.

Oddly, I don't know a single Republican that would oppose the building of a mosque, but yes that is a hateable offense. Oddly, I'm still torn about the mosque at ground zero. Imagine how you'd feel if the National Socialists decided to build their headquarters outside of Auschwitz.

Those who believe taxes are too high are correct, btw. We're back to your hate and ignorance.
 

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I see no footnotes about sweden
Good thing I quoted the footnote for you.


The distinction between the two however is not clear cut and people can arrange that the value of assets rises rather than they get given an annual cash payment.
You should do more research. A Schedule D is a defined item. Call your accountant if you need explanation.


suggesting they are cheating the system by taking their income as capital gains.
It isn't cheating. Capital gains are there for a reason: to encourage investors to invest. And it works.


and none of them did. This may be one small consideration but experience is that anyone who says he will leave is lying.
Well its settled. That one academic, and that one study, was all that was needed to disprove the rich-flight myth. Thanks for that.

Certainly rich people go elsewhere but minor changes in personal tax are not the reason.
You need to do more research if you believe this. Why are companies like GE operating offshore? Also, Maryland tried a special tax, I think 6%, on the 'super rich.' Guess what happened? THEY LEFT! Ha. Call your social scientist and tell her we may have something she should look at. You ever see the freedom index? Compare that to migration within the states and you see a patern: high taxes = declining population. Is that true 100% of the time? No. But the least financially free state, NY, just so happened to see the largest loss in population.

I will try to get to the rest later.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124329282377252471.html
 
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StormfrontFL

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Man, you read poorly. I will repost this again, maybe you'll get it this time: "Do I think its completely unjust that some people live here for free while other have to pay for them? Yep, fact."So why do you continually defend the rich tax cheats?

If those corporations are taking advantage of the tax payer to exist in the United States then that is wrong. Awww you're no longer their cheering section:rolleyes:

Its like your talking to some idea of a Republican that you thought up.

TeaBaggers? Is that your example of how much better than 'them' you are? They will get my respect when they earn it(which will never happen)

I have had SO many debates with my Republican friends about gay marriage that we don't discuss it any more. I've converted some. In fact, I just had a convert the other day...but from the left. The right is easier to debate, I believe, as they work on more readily defined principles. Once you get them in a tizy about how the government needs to stay out of their lives, and so does everyone else, you ask them about gay marriage and drugs. They back track and know they're doing it. I figured out I wasn't a Republican because of their inconsistant stance on gay marriage. Are you gonna pretend not to know anything about all the anti gay amendments the GOP tried using to turn out their base?

Oddly, I don't know a single Republican that would oppose the building of a mosque, but yes that is a hateable offense. Oddly, I'm still torn about the mosque at ground zero. Imagine how you'd feel if the National Socialists decided to build their headquarters outside of Auschwitz. So sad you missed all the images on Faux News with all the hate filled anti Muslim comments

Those who believe taxes are too high are correct, btw. We're back to your hate and ignorance.
Yes I do hate ignorance but you are so far beyond ignorant it would be cruel to hate you. I should know better than to feed trolls like you.
 

dandelion

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Personally I think more revenue needs to be raised in the US at the moment, however here is an interesting piece about what has happened in the UK for your consideration.

50p tax rate 'costing Treasury £500m' - Telegraph
I'm still waiting for the evidence....

The government has still not stated its official version of how much money the tax has really raised, so we have no idea. The telegraph quotes the IFS as saying that people are arranging their financial affairs to avoid having so much income to tax. First, the dont say how the IFS knows this. Second, surely the logical solution is to increas capital taxes tomatch income taxes. Obvious. Also obvious that if capital taxes were raised and income taxes lowered, there would be a sudden increase in incomes and a sudden drop in capital gains as people organised their affairs the reverse way. Doesnt prove anything except people arent stupid. or at least, those with enough income to pay an accountant to sort it for them will do this. Maybe a tax on accountants?

Incidentally, I just read a statistic that said following the current recession spending power of the top 10% in the uk has fallen 3% but of the bottom 20% fallen 12%. The poor are paying for the recession.
 
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Upperdown

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Yes I do hate ignorance but you are so far beyond ignorant it would be cruel to hate you. I should know better than to feed trolls like you.

So far beyond ignorance? Is this the third grade? NUH UH! YOU ARE! ! !

So why do you continually defend the rich tax cheats?
This is that mythical argument that your having with yourself. You read a few liberal talking points and you're desperately trying to fit this discussion into it.


If "poor" people ride for free on tax payers, thats immoral
If "rich" people ride for free on tax payers, thats immoral.

They will get my respect when they earn it(which will never happen)
Does this not prove your ignorance?


But that wasn't the question. This was about you, and how you are exactly what you hate.

you gonna pretend not to know anything about all the anti gay amendments the GOP tried using to turn out their base?
I have signed multiple petitions to get civil unions/gay marriage on the ballot. One may note that Obama did absolutely nothing for gay marriage. To be honest, the GOP has a very hard time turning me out on social issues. Their fundamentals, allegedly, support gay marriage. Again, you're having some pre-rehearsed discussion. Its not fitting nicely into your talking points.


So sad you missed all the images on Fox News with all the hate filled anti Muslim comments
Lets see some examples.


You should know better, you got schooled. I really need you to step it up, I'm not getting what I need here.
 

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You do not think it relevant that if capital tax is 15% and income tax is 50% people arrange that they get their pay as 'capital', thereby avoiding 35% of their tax bill? A sensible person would perhaps raise capital taxes because they notice that they must consider the whole picture?
Sorry, man, this entire comment is nonsense. Sensicle people would say the tax rate should be much lower so everyone can have the maximum freedom to do as they wish with their lives. You seem to think the capital gains tax is a secret loophole that was placed their by special interest so they could get out of their "fair share."

You obviously don't understand how this tax works. First, when you repeatedly cite this 15% number you have no idea what it means. In order to qualify for the 15% you need to have 1) sufficient income to place you in the highest CG bracket (lowest being 0% for low income earners) and 2) have held your investment for a minimum of 366 days. There are many reasons for this, among which is home sales. If you make $85k, you greedy liberals would say you should be taxed at your income tax rate ~25% to the fed. So, if you made $50k on your house you'd owe (for some unknown reason) $12,500. If, as you suggest, we were to eliminate the CG tax and raise the income tax a person making over $175k almost couldn't sell their house for a profit. If you make less per year you would lose less to the fed. Ultimately the government decided it isn't fair to require that someone lose the use of their money for a year then simply be charged their regular income rate, there would be no incentive created. So, when we look at it from how people are treated, the "poor" still recieve favorable tax treatment over the rich (0% vs 15%).



Actually, we cant. I understand the US imports mexicans to do jobs which americans refuse to do. Likewise the Uk imports Poles. The jobs are being grossly underpaid but employers are cheating by hiring in cheap labour from abroad. This just undermines the home economy. It suites the boss to believe he deserves a lot of money to sit in his chair all day when he would refuse to do the cleaning.
You are missing the basic premise. Anyone that want to can sweep the street. They have to want to. It is very difficult to take someone who has earned a high status in this society, say a lawyer, and tell them to sweep the street for $7.25/hr. They wont do it. But, they could do it if they wanted to.


The reason we have to import workers is because the govenment programs disincentivize workers. Its MUCH easier to stay home, collect welfare, unemployment and food stamps than it is to go into the fields and earn $7.25. Also, when you set a minimum wage you create an artificial floor. In some cases that floor is too high, forcing companies to look elsewhere for labor. You seem to think that there is just billions of dollars rolling out of ever single company. This isn't the case, and I suggest you become familiar with small businesses before you continue your absurd opinion. Many small businesses are facing closing their doors if they can't lower the cost of labor. Demanding that they raise wages for these readily replaceable positions is assuming you knw much better than all parties involved. You dont.

This "lazy" boss you speak of, I know him. He works 12-14 hour days 6 days a week. He worries constantly about how he's going to make payroll, how he's going to compete with the new store down the street, or how he's going to increase sales. You obviously have never been in charge. The last thing you want is your executive sweeping floors because some liberal is absolutely backwards retardedly jealous that the 'boss' is making more money. You want that person establishing vision, strategy, leadership, organizational structure, ect.

For whom? For society which gets ripped off when he is making moneyat the expense of ordinary ciizens.?
Where do you get this crap? How is he making money at the expense of ordinary citizens? Right now there is a Chase Bank down the street from my house. Do you know how much they made off me? $0. Why? Because I chose not to bank there. If you don't want your banker making money on your money, while making you money, then DON'T BANK THERE. Nobody, absolutely nobody, is making you bank there. Further, if liberals weren't so lazy they'd start a new bank that was 'honest' and didn't 'make money.' Instead, they'd just like to use the electorate to exact injustice on others, then say "thats fair" once everyones poor.



I am happy for you. Most people would find the bank reposessing the home because they are no longer making payments and the grocery store refusing to give them food because they have no money to pay for it.
You comment is, in now way, a response to mine. It doesn't make sense, and it doesn't apply. Please, try again.


Us, Uk, Germany, Japan, China, India, France, Spain, Canada...nearly every country in the world...There is no country which does not need government intervention.
EVERY country doesn't need the government involved. Without the government the corporations/unions couldn't rob the tax payer blind. If you thin the government is here to help you deserve to get ripped off.


Each and every one of those countries has had a budget disaster in the last 30 years. China? Their people are absurdly poor at the hand of the government. Wanna see something fun: youtube "china ghost cities." The government is building entire modern cities, millions of homes/lofts/condos/apartments, and they're all empty. Why? Because they want to waste tax payer money impressing the world. Average person there lives on less than $10/day. Try that some time. Not only that, Mao had to kill off millions to make it work. Are you willing do that?

I noticed you left out some of the left wings most prized attempts. My favorite is the USSR. Bread lines around the block for people that were working, BY LAW, 6 twelve hour days! Thats what you want for this country? How can you sleep?

Jealous? We live in a very rich society which frankly wastes most of the so called wealth it creates. Of course we do not need to work as hard as we do!
No, you need to work much harder than you do. If you are so extremely jealous of people who have money then you need to work for it. Come up with an idea, process, new way of servicing a need in society (maybe that 'honest' bank will work), and make it fly. If you do that and still hold the opinion you have, I'd like to hear about it.

We do waste our wealth. We pay for absurd social programs that encourage people, not unlike yourself, to sit around. Those people could be helping create a better world, instead they are demanding rich peoples money so they don't have to work as hard.

You reap what you sow. If you sow nothing, expect to reap nothing. If you only sow what was easy, then expect very little. If you expect there to be someting to reap but you have not sown your crops, then expect nothing. This is where the modern liberal finds himself: planned nothing, risked nothing, achieved nothing...demands everything.

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B_crackoff

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I'm still waiting for the evidence....

The government has still not stated its official version of how much money the tax has really raised, so we have no idea.

Too true - the 50p rate only really affects those on PAYE - but they can clear all that present liability by claiming 100% relief of the tax by putting more into their pension fund.

The telegraph quotes the IFS as saying that people are arranging their financial affairs to avoid having so much income to tax.

No more than usual!:biggrin1:

First, the dont say how the IFS knows this. Second, surely the logical solution is to increas capital taxes tomatch income taxes. Obvious. Also obvious that if capital taxes were raised and income taxes lowered, there would be a sudden increase in incomes and a sudden drop in capital gains as people organised their affairs the reverse way. Doesnt prove anything except people arent stupid. or at least, those with enough income to pay an accountant to sort it for them will do this. Maybe a tax on accountants?

Only tax accountants deal with tax. Reordering the absolute mess that everyone else makes, & providing accurate information for decision making is what accountants do!:smile:

Almost every tax avoidance scheme is set up by - TAX LAWYERS - honest:biggrin1:


Incidentally, I just read a statistic that said following the current recession spending power of the top 10% in the uk has fallen 3% but of the bottom 20% fallen 12%. The poor are paying for the recession.

Sorry, but I'd caveat that by saying that the Labour government whacked up benefits to a unaffordable, & unsustainable level that couldn't be continued in an economic downturn, so that was bound to happen regardless.

I think that when all is said & done, people doing the same work earn about 5-10% more when they contract, instead of PAYE, & that is offset by the fact that they don't (well soon they might) get sick or redundancy pay. A 50k paye job equates to around £330/day as a contract.

Of course, if you are clever, & don't spend much money, the best tax efficient thing a contractor can do is just keep the cash in the company & take it all as a capital gain under redistribution of profit when the company is closed. That can save a colossal amount.:smile:

If you really are stingy, you can legitimately use off shore facilities to assist you - but you have to be prepared for a lot of Tax attention. Funnily enough, I've worked out a variation on this that even works for the unemployed!!!! How to own your own house, but not own it, & get paid by the government to live in it - yet not be a traveller!