Shock - Buffet says the rich aren't taxed enough!

D

deleted15807

Guest
We shouldn't tax the 'job creators' at all. We should be thankful for them and give them the highest praise. Let us bring them silver and gold.
 

Jason

Superior Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Aug 26, 2004
Posts
15,639
Media
62
Likes
5,013
Points
433
Location
London (Greater London, England)
Verification
View
Sexuality
90% Gay, 10% Straight
Gender
Male
The UK is presently re-examining it's newly introduced 50% income tax band. It seems that more tax would be collected if this band is abolished and the high earners charged the previous highest rate of 40%. Politically this is difficult as there is a popular view that it is right to tax the rich more. But it does seem like an excellent illustration of the fallacy that it is possible to tax the rich. The UK has tried and the total tax take has fallen.

There is of course the view that if we taxed the rich at a lower level of 30% we would actually take more tax than at the present 40% most pay. Or maybe we should charge everyone at a flat rate (20%?) Or maybe very soon we have to wake up to the difficulty of collecting income tax in a world where fewer and fewer are in 9-5 employment with one employer and get our tax from elsewhere.
 

helgaleena

Sexy Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2006
Posts
5,475
Media
7
Likes
43
Points
193
Location
Wisconsin USA
Sexuality
50% Straight, 50% Gay
Gender
Female
The reason you would take more tax is that fewer rich Brits would move away to avoid the taxes? I don't think lowering the tax now will induce them to give up their offshore dodging residences. Most of those are corporations instead of individuals anyway.

Let's look at the Scandinavian model, where most everybody pays nearly 50%. It has not caused mass migrations.
 

B_VinylBoy

Sexy Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Posts
10,363
Media
0
Likes
68
Points
123
Location
Boston, MA / New York, NY
Sexuality
90% Gay, 10% Straight
Gender
Male
He is more than welcome to make a donation. Let's see him put his money where is mouth is.

:rolleyes:
Buffett donates $1.5 billion to Gates Foundation | Reuters
Warren Buffett Donates $1.78 Billion to Charity | ecorazzi.com :: the latest in green gossip
BBC NEWS | Business | Buffett donates $37bn to charity
Buffett Donates $1.6 Billion in Biggest Gift Since 2008 Crisis - Businessweek

Of course, making "donations" and paying what you're legally obligated to pay are two entirely different things. For starters, you don't go to jail if you make generous donations... but try tax evasion for a lengthy period of time and see if they don't make you bunkmates with Wesley Snipes. Bottom line, the tax codes in this country are skewed and wealthy people need to pay their appropriate share. Period. If this is the country they want to "live in" because it allows them to be as wealthy as they want to be, stop whining and pay your percentages, then you can go back to your money grubbing ways and shut up. But whatever... you would have been better off if you just came out and said that you're greedy.

Awaiting the usual "welfare recipient" comments in response. You know it's coming!
 
Last edited:

Klingsor

Worshipped Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2011
Posts
10,888
Media
4
Likes
11,642
Points
293
Location
Champaign (Illinois, United States)
Sexuality
80% Straight, 20% Gay
Gender
Male
He is more than welcome to make a donation. Let's see him put his money where is mouth is.

The point is not that *he* personally wants to pay more tax. All things being equal, I'm sure he doesn't.

But all things have gotten increasingly far from equal in this country. And putting things right will require *all* of the super rich (not just Buffett and Bill Gates, who are willing) to pay more taxes.

A couple of voluntary donations is a drop in the bucket. For any kind of meaningful revenue enhancement, all those in the upper income brackets will have to pay significantly higher taxes. Whether they feel like making a "donation" or not.
 
Last edited:

dandelion

Superior Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Sep 25, 2009
Posts
13,297
Media
21
Likes
2,705
Points
358
Location
UK
Verification
View
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
In the Uk an enquiry has been announced to decide whether the 50% tax rate collects less tax than a lower one would. This is a matter of dogma from the conservative party and whether or not it is true has yet to be investigated. I dont doubt that rich people will organsie their affairs so that they pay tax at the lowest rate possible, so if 50% income tax is not the lowest possible rate they will switch their 'income' so it is no longer 'income'. Traditionally the definitions of 'capital' and 'income' are interchangeable by a good accountant depending on how the sums come out best. Other scams are possible where companies retain money rather than pay it out to their owners.

The solution to citizens choosing to switch their income so it becomes something else is to raise the taxes on all the something elses so they match the 50% income tax rate.
 
Last edited:

Jason

Superior Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Aug 26, 2004
Posts
15,639
Media
62
Likes
5,013
Points
433
Location
London (Greater London, England)
Verification
View
Sexuality
90% Gay, 10% Straight
Gender
Male
The UK enquiry into the 50% tax band has indeed just been announced (Dandelion) but the Conservatives have had a good look at the figures first - I would be very surprised if the OBR study does not conclude that more money would be raised on 40% than 50%. Yes it is indeed mostly clever accountancy, but the idea that any government could close off all the alternatives is a non starter. Simple options include a person making their legal domicile somewhere like Jersey or Guernsey, which are not part of the UK and have their own tax laws (but use sterling, are less than an hour by air to London, and offer a very nice life style and quite a bit of sunshine). The reality is that the rich can only be taxed up to a point, and if the UK tries too hard we actually lose tax revenue, as well as jobs.

The prescription for raising more tax revenue in the UK is to reduce income tax and reduce corporation tax. The Lib Dems forced through an income tax rise - it will be interesting to see whether they agree a reduction to raise more revenue. Do the Lib Dems put first the good of the nation or the ratings of the Lib Dems? We are already reducing CT, and the trend is definitely downwards. The target has to be something like the rates of the Republic of Ireland which are a model the whole world should emulate.
 

Thedrewbert

Superior Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Posts
851
Media
29
Likes
4,073
Points
398
Age
45
Location
Pittsburgh
Sexuality
99% Gay, 1% Straight
Gender
Male
We shouldn't tax the 'job creators' at all. We should be thankful for them and give them the highest praise. Let us bring them silver and gold.

I'll get right on that just as SOON as they create some jobs. We've been pretty patient waiting 30 years and all....
 

dandelion

Superior Member
Verified
Gold
Joined
Sep 25, 2009
Posts
13,297
Media
21
Likes
2,705
Points
358
Location
UK
Verification
View
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
This has all been argued before. The republic of Ireland can attract foreign companies by reducing tax rates because it is the one country out of step and has a small economy. So it can attract enough companies willing or able to uproot to make the cut in rates actually pay. If all the countries in the whole world cut their rates to exactly the same level, say if they cut by an average of 1/2, the amount of money received will also be 1/2. Cutting rates is simply a race to the bottom where no one pays any tax at all. What is required is international agreement to raise rates equally, and international agreement to penalise countries which are out of step.

A good place for the UK to start would be UK controlled tax havens.
 

B_crackoff

Experimental Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2010
Posts
1,726
Media
0
Likes
3
Points
73
:rolleyes:
Buffett donates $1.5 billion to Gates Foundation | Reuters
Warren Buffett Donates $1.78 Billion to Charity | ecorazzi.com :: the latest in green gossip
BBC NEWS | Business | Buffett donates $37bn to charity
Buffett Donates $1.6 Billion in Biggest Gift Since 2008 Crisis - Businessweek

Of course, making "donations" and paying what you're legally obligated to pay are two entirely different things. For starters, you don't go to jail if you make generous donations... but try tax evasion for a lengthy period of time and see if they don't make you bunkmates with Wesley Snipes. Bottom line, the tax codes in this country are skewed and wealthy people need to pay their appropriate share. Period. If this is the country they want to "live in" because it allows them to be as wealthy as they want to be, stop whining and pay your percentages, then you can go back to your money grubbing ways and shut up. But whatever... you would have been better off if you just came out and said that you're greedy.

Awaiting the usual "welfare recipient" comments in response. You know it's coming!

Fuck Buffet giving money to his pal Gates to help continue a tax exempt evil empire of influence!

That $37 Billion would have attracted $7-15 billion of tax if he had realized it upon the sale of his assets, instead of avoiding the tax to give to Bill's evil minions!

Therefore, Gate's private interests have trumped any relief domestic Americans might have received. $15 billion would have paid for all social medical programs for a week.

I am all for entrepreneurship, & its sponsorship - but for interest & capital gains to be taxed at a lower rate than actual earned income is a bloody crime. Blood, sweat & tears from labour should be taxed less than income earned sitting in your chair playing with yourself.

Re Osbourne trying to reduce the top rate - I've said this before, I'll say it again - though some people didn't follow it.

The top rate of tax can be extended, & all that extra taxation,( say 10%) used as an investment in entrepreneurs,held for them for a 10 year period to encourage domestic enterprise. (it may go up or down - but they'll get something back).

At least that way - the taxpayer has an investment, a stake in the economy, & domestic industries get a boost, instead of all that capital, generated domestically, fleeing internationally.

Anyone who wants to leave - FUCK OFF, & rip up your citizenship on the way out - you can be replaced.
 

B_enzia35

Experimental Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2011
Posts
863
Media
0
Likes
16
Points
53
Location
Texas
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Male
The point is not that *he* personally wants to pay more tax. All things being equal, I'm sure he doesn't.

But all things have gotten increasingly far from equal in this country. And putting things right will require *all* of the super rich (not just Buffett and Bill Gates, who are willing) to pay more taxes.

A couple of voluntary donations is a drop in the bucket. For any kind of meaningful revenue enhancement, all those in the upper income brackets will have to pay significantly higher taxes. Whether they feel like making a "donation" or not.
Actually you can tax all the "rich" at 100%, and not even cover the upcoming deficit for this year alone. So, revenue enhancement will increase, but it won't make a dent in anything.
 
2

223790

Guest
His wish would come true if he lived in Canada. We have a progressive tax system here meaning the more you earn, the more you pay. We are taxed to death here on anything and everything!
 

B_VinylBoy

Sexy Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Posts
10,363
Media
0
Likes
68
Points
123
Location
Boston, MA / New York, NY
Sexuality
90% Gay, 10% Straight
Gender
Male
Fuck Buffet giving money to his pal Gates to help continue a tax exempt evil empire of influence!

Taken from the Bill Gates Foundation Website -
Guided by the belief that every life has equal value, the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation works to help all people lead healthy, productive lives. In developing countries, it focuses on improving people’s health and giving them the chance to lift themselves out of hunger and extreme poverty. - Bill Gates Foundation - Fact Sheet

Yeah... just like you said. Fuck that!
Oy vey. :rolleyes: :no:

Therefore, Gate's private interests have trumped any relief domestic Americans might have received. $15 billion would have paid for all social medical programs for a week.

That wasn't the point of that post. Someone suggested that Warren Buffett "put his money where is mouth is" and make donations. I listed several to show that person (who really doesn't give a damn anyhow) that Buffett actually does make huge donations to various causes, and considering what the Bill Gates Foundation attempts to do with its donations I felt it was one worth noting. It wasn't intended to reflect anything else but that. Nobody, not even Warren Buffett, has enough money on their own to completely reverse decades of economic screw-ups and flawed government, so whatever you're ranting about in regards to Warren Buffett's donations is irrelevant.
 

D_Davy_Downspout

Account Disabled
Joined
Dec 5, 2004
Posts
1,136
Media
0
Likes
18
Points
183
Actually you can tax all the "rich" at 100%, and not even cover the upcoming deficit for this year alone.

That's not actually true.

So, revenue enhancement will increase, but it won't make a dent in anything.

Lack of revenue(along with war spending) is the driving force behind the deficit. We cut taxes during a boom period, so we had no cushion when things went to shit. So now we have the deficit you'd expect during a downturn, exacerbated by poor fiscal policy prior.

Deficits aren't really relevant during downturns, we should probably be spending more. But long term, our issue is both wasted military money and taxes being far too low.