Should Black Friday Be Banned?

[aninnymouse]

Yeah, but one of the things that Fuzzy isn't considering is that the penalties for breaking from the rules in those traditional, egalitarian societies are very, very harsh.

Their value systems say, you break from tradition, you get terminated with extreme prejudice. It's just not worth it in most cases.

 

[D_Bob_Crotchitch]

Yeah, but one of the things that Fuzzy isn't considering is that the penalties for breaking from the rules in those traditional, egalitarian societies are very, very harsh.

Their value systems say, you break from tradition, you get terminated with extreme prejudice. It's just not worth it in most cases.

People tend to ignore that part of the system.

 

[Fuzzy_]

Yeah, but one of the things that Fuzzy isn't considering is that the penalties for breaking from the rules in those traditional, egalitarian societies are very, very harsh.

Their value systems say, you break from tradition, you get terminated with extreme prejudice. It's just not worth it in most cases.

Eskimo song duels and Tiwi stick-dodging is pretty gory, so Fuzzy hears.

 

[D_Bob_Crotchitch]

Eskimo song duels and Tiwi stick-dodging is pretty gory, so Fuzzy hears.

BTW Eskimo is a racial slur. Most prefer to be called Inuit or whatever their particular tribes are named.

 

[aninnymouse]

Eskimo song duels and Tiwi stick-dodging is pretty gory, so Fuzzy hears.

Or, how about getting your right hand cut off if you get caught stealing. How's that blow Fuzzy's skirt up?

 

[Fuzzy_]

Or, how about getting your right hand cut off if you get caught stealing. How's that blow Fuzzy's skirt up?

Fuzzy isn't aware of any egalitarian society that cuts people's hands off for getting caught stealing. Maybe you could pull Fuzzy's skirt down so you can show Fuzzy one? One of Fuzzy's points is that stealing isn't needed or wanted in egalitarian societies.

 

[aninnymouse]

Fuzzy isn't aware of any egalitarian society that cuts people's hands off for getting caught stealing. Maybe you could pull Fuzzy's skirt down so you can show Fuzzy one? One of Fuzzy's points is that stealing isn't needed or wanted in egalitarian societies.

Yes, that's an extreme example. More aplicable to the Arab world, but still worth noting.

But, think about what happens in Amish Culture if you break from the traditions, or were to be caught stealing.

 

[BIGBULL29]

The problem's root is as simple as its process is complex: people have lost their manners as the culture has been pushing the envelope slowly by slowly every year toward informality since the 70's (i.e., less "put-on" politeness). Once a society starts moving away from manners, it becomes more and more uncivilized. Now, on-the-surface rudeness is rife all over the Western world. But, in the East, we still have countries like Japan where politeness still reigns supreme, and where Black Friday nightmares would never happen (also imagine a tsunami in the US or Europe, and imagine the social unrest).

Less manners = more overt greediness, etc.

 

[D_Bob_Crotchitch]

The problem's root is as simple as its process is complex: people have lost their manners because the culture, pushing the envelope slowly by slowly every year since the 70's toward informality (i.e., less "put-on" politeness). Once a society starts moving away from manners, it becomes more and more uncivilized. Now on-the-surface udeness is rife all over the Western world now. But, in the East, we still have countries like Japan where politeness still reigns supreme, and where Black Friday nightmares would never happen (also imagine a tsunami in the US or Europe, and imagine the social unrest).

Some truth to what you said. It has been found that when a society loses its system of values, it tends to wander off course. It has happened in tribes in Africa, North America, and elsewhere.

 

[aninnymouse]

Yeah. Popular western culture has become SO self absorbed, SO materialistic and SO devoid of politeness that it's not even funny. It seems people think they're free to do whatever they like, no matter how nasty, and if someone else doesn't like it, too bad, so sad.

People think it's their right to be assholes, and that other people should not just deal with it, but embrace it. Very disgusting and disturbing to me.

 

[D_Bob_Crotchitch]

Yeah. Popular western culture has become SO self absorbed, SO materialistic and SO devoid of politeness that it's not even funny. It seems people think they're free to do whatever they like, no matter how nasty, and if someone else doesn't like it, too bad, so sad.

People think it's their right to be assholes, and that other people should not just deal with it, but embrace it. Very disgusting and disturbing to me.

I remember reading that a study was conducted, and it was found that people felt free to be jerks on the internet. They took that freedom out into real life. The number of rude, and demanding people seems to be ever multiplying. It is disgusting.

 

[TurkeyWithaSunburn]

Definitely NOT banned. Remember why it was labelled black Friday in the first place.

 

[B_Hickboy]

I remember reading that a study was conducted, and it was found that people felt free to be jerks on the internet. They took that freedom out into real life. The number of rude, and demanding people seems to be ever multiplying. It is disgusting.

Fucking DUH!!!

 

[Fuzzy_]

I did not miss the point. In those primitive societies you discuss, it works because nobody really has anything for anyone else to covet. Everyone is super poor. Everyone in the society has a task they must perform. It works in a tiny group living in somewhat isolated conditions.

Poverty is relative, so it's not possible for everyone in any society to be "super poor".

The poor are simply a group of people who have less then the average person in a society (standard of living). This standard can vary greatly from one society to another. You are clearly using your own society's standards as a guage for poverty (whether it be absolute or relative). This is one of the first mistakes a person can make when examining other societies.

Relative deprivation is criminogenic. It creates a group of Haves and Have-Nots. In capitalist societies, the poor are not only marginalized, but also criminalized, so poverty is a unique and special problem. As many Occupiers will tell you, the Haves are the ones in power and the Have-Nots are being exploited.

Fuzzy doesn't heard of many Occupiers in egalitarian, or even socialist countries :smile:

Fuzzy agrees with you that large societies cannot be egalitarian. They must use currency and the means and mode of production can be easily used selfishly. Fuzzy is just using primitive societies as an example of how peaceful and content people can be when engaged in the sort of 'coveting' that capitalist societies encourage. Preventing gross disparity through legislation, fair taxation and regulation can spread the wealth and make society, as a whole, happier.

There are those who will argue that if the rich are taxed more, then people will be less motivated to earn more money. This is bullshit. Do you think that Carlos Slim could possibly spend $70 billion in his entire lifetime? Fuzzy isn't against capitalism, but there comes a point when the inequality gets far out of hand, and people who aren't rich seem to spend all of their time in misery while playing catch-up. People who work hard or take big risks should be rewarded, but not at the expense of others. It's possible to get 'rich' without exploiting others.

 

[B_Hickboy]

There are two classes in this country - the rich and the poor. The middle class was invented by the rich to lull us into a false sense of security about our poverty. If you don't own the means of production, can't go where you want, live where you want, and buy what you want without running out of money or worrying about how much you're going to leave your kids when you die, you're poor. I am poor, and so are most of us.

Fuzzy's observation "using primitive societies as an example of how peaceful and content people can be when engaged in the sort of 'coveting' that capitalist societies encourage" is brilliant.

But it isn't wealth that needs to be redistributed. It's opportunity. There would still be a disparity between opportunity and achievement, but the playing field is, as of November 25, 2011, nothing approaching level.

 

[OhWiseOne]

There are two classes in this country - the rich and the poor. The middle class was invented by the rich to lull us into a false sense of security about our poverty. If you don't own the means of production, can't go where you want, live where you want, and buy what you want without running out of money or worrying about how much you're going to leave your kids when you die, you're poor. I am poor, and so are most of us.

Fuzzy's observation "using primitive societies as an example of how peaceful and content people can be when engaged in the sort of 'coveting' that capitalist societies encourage" is brilliant.

But it isn't wealth that needs to be redistributed. It's opportunity. There would still be a disparity between opportunity and achievement, but the playing field is, as of November 25, 2011, nothing approaching level.

You smart mother fucker....And yes that's a compliment.

 

[dandelion]

The problem's root is as simple as its process is complex: people have lost their manners as the culture has been pushing the envelope slowly by slowly every year toward informality since the 70's (i.e., less "put-on" politeness). Once a society starts moving away from manners, it becomes more and more uncivilized. Now, on-the-surface rudeness is rife all over the Western world. But, in the East, we still have countries like Japan where politeness still reigns supreme, and where Black Friday nightmares would never happen (also imagine a tsunami in the US or Europe, and imagine the social unrest).

Less manners = more overt greediness, etc.

japan. manners. right. I saw those clips of Japanese directors of TEPCO and the Prime minister bowing and apologising for the demolished nuclear power station ... because they didnt feel upgrading its safety measures was worth doing. Can you imagine a Japanese doing something so impolite as cutting safety corners on a nuclear power station? repeatedly? more manners = more covert greediness?

 

[OhWiseOne]

I was at the store the other day and elderly person was trying to reach a can on the top shelf and having a problem with it. Did anyone look, consider helping her no. To busy on their phones, kids or whatever. Still, you can't see and find the time to help someone with such a simple task? I did because I was raised that way. Oh I also open doors for ladies.
This may seem off topic but it goes back to the root cause of the problem. Have some respect for others and you may receive respect.

 

[B_Hickboy]

You smart mother fucker....And yes that's a compliment.

Awww... I did what I did before love came to town.

U2 & B.B. King: When Love Comes To Town - YouTube

 

[Fuzzy_]

BTW Eskimo is a racial slur. Most prefer to be called Inuit or whatever their particular tribes are named.

Oh please. You're getting ridiculous, off topic, and personal. Fuzzy doesn't like niggardly nitpicking, but when he's accused of using a racial slur, Fuzzy will defend himself.

Fuzzy is aware that the term "Inuit" is more acceptable than the term "Eskimo", but it's hardly a racial slur. Also, the Inuit commonly refer to themselves as "Eskimos", even in legal documents (including the Inuit Circumpolar Council's).

"Eskimo song duel" is a recognizable term that commonly refers to a practice among traditional Inuit people. Fuzzy has never heard of the term "Inuit song duel".

Google results for "Eskimo song duel": 2,970
Google results for "Inuit song duel": 51

Central Eskimo Song Duels: A Contextual Analysis of Ritual Ambiguity is a nice read if you want to know more about this bloodless juridical ritual used to restore order in the community, although it focuses more on the act than the result.