Should carelessness be rewarded?

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by 9inchcanadian, Jan 22, 2008.

  1. 9inchcanadian

    9inchcanadian Member

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    What are you on about i hear you cry? Maybe not!

    Anyway, just watching a show about debt on T.V.
    Some silly bint( English vernacular meaning foolish woman) got herself in over $66,000 worth of debt, this did not include a mortgage as she rented. The premise of the show was basicly to slap her in the face and tell her that she isn`t Paris Hilton and can`t affiod a $1000 chihuahua to prance around back alley Texas.

    Anyway she wasn`t listening and refused to change her ways.

    The end result? She declared bancrupcy and her debts were wiped out.

    OH NICE. I go to work, pay my mortgage and all the other bills on time for no thanks from the utility companys or the banks.
    She fucks them all off and gets to start all over again.

    FUCK HER and i hope her dog shits in her mouth when she`s asleep.

    So the original question:

    Should carelesness (or blatant stupidity in this case) be rewared.
     
  2. HazelGod

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    No, of course they shouldn't...but the more your government attempts to be a nanny state, the more its citizens feel entitled to such protections from the consequences of their own stupidity (the accurate term for such behavior)...at the expense of those who aren't too stupid to remember to breathe.
     
  3. IntoxicatingToxin

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    People can still be "punished" after a bankruptcy. Trust me, her credit isn't back to perfect. And many creditors may see "bankruptcy" and decide not to give her credit. Not that this justifies anything, but it makes it better I think.
     
  4. SpeedoGuy

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    That's quite similar to what the management of United Airlines did in order to get out from having to pay its employees' retirement pensions. Neat trick.
     
  5. sjprep06

    sjprep06 New Member

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    That bankruptcy will haunt her for years, so she isn't being rewarded....
     
  6. snoozan

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    So who gave her the astronomical credit limits? Are they not somewhat responsible as well? Honestly I think the new bankruptcy laws in the US suck giant horse cock. Most people who declare bankruptcy are hoping to keep a roof over their heads and somehow start over so they can live reasonably. It's not as easy as just being irresponsible. I know too many people who have gone through the process, most of whom had illness and/or divorce or death as the main contributing factor.
     
  7. B_jacknapier

    B_jacknapier New Member

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    Carelessness should not only be rewarded, but cherished.
     
  8. 9inchcanadian

    9inchcanadian Member

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    I`m sure the "pain" of being declared bankrupt is somewhat offset by not having to pay back nearly 70 grand.
    What kind of message does this send to the already possesion obsessed youth of today? I agree that the lenders should take some resposibility but we shouldn`t we be teaching that if you borrow money you have to pay it back?
     
  9. Principessa

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    Well aren't you a holier than thou, sanctimonious shit! :mad: Speaking as someone who had to claim banruptcy due to a series of unforeseen difficulties. I am here to tell you it was not a decision made lightly.

    Like an idiot I moved from a spacious 1 bedroom apartment in a lovely neighborhood near my full-time job to a tiny studio in a not so great part of town. I actually worked 3 jobs at one point to pay the debt off more quickly. Damn, my parents for hammering in to my head that strong protestant work ethic. :rolleyes: Not all people who claim bankruptcy are like the idiot you saw on television.

    The worst part is because I spent so much time doing the right thing, the allegedly honorable thing. By the time I succumbed to the pressure my largest debt was not excused because the bankruptcy laws had changed in 1998. :mad:

    Another thing you need to know 9inchcanadian, is that the majority of people in the United States who claim bankruptcy do so because of hospital and medical bills. Many hard-working people have either crappy health insurance or none at all. I wouldn't call that good debt; but it's a lot different than the shopaholic example you gave.

    For the record the reason the bankruptcy law was changed to NOT include student loans, is because dentists, doctors, lawyers; and chiropractors would pay the minimal amount required on their student loans for 10 years. Then (by the old law) they would claim bankruptcy and have their entire student loan debt wiped clean. :mad:

    FYI - A bankruptcy stays on your credit report decimating your FICO score for 10 years. She did not get off scot free.
     
  10. snoozan

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    Thank you, NJ, this is exactly what I was getting at.
     
  11. 9inchcanadian

    9inchcanadian Member

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    OOOOOO 10 whole years till she can steal another 70 thousand dollars.

    Before you defame my character perhaps you should actually read the TITLE. I am clearly aiming my tirade at the people who take on debt knowing they are unable to pay it back merely to enhance their wardrobe or social status.

    There are clearly many other problems with your country, one of them being the terrible state of your medical system.

    Again, in future please read threads before ranting and name calling.
     
  12. IntoxicatingToxin

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    Most people don't do this with the intent of filing bankruptcy and losing any chance of credit for 10 years. This girl was probably just in denial.
     
  13. THEEman

    THEEman New Member

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    best solution=to fix the problem that CAUSED that. not practical but ahh what a perfect world it would be.
     
  14. D_Adoniah Sheervolume

    D_Adoniah Sheervolume Account Disabled

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    exactly. big companies have been excused of responsibility to hundreds of thousands of employees who worked for them for years, or were just plain bailed-out. just watch how the government steps in to save citibank and the others as their fiscal irresponsibility catches up to them. the companies want to make oodles during good times without being taxed (and do), then want to be bailed out by government (read: you and me, the little people, the taxpayers) when things go wrong. disgusting, shameful behavior, and the government goes right along under the guise of "keeping the economy going." i say: let 'em either learn the damn lessons or fail. the republicans are always bleating about keeping government out of business, so republicans: until you're willing to bail out individuals too, force corporations be as responsible as we little people are expected to be!

    credit card companies entice with teaser rates & higher and higher limits. as soon as the borrower makes one slip up, the companies slap on ungodly late & over-limit fees (permitted by the current adminstration), followed by usurious interest rates that pretty much guarantee the borrower will never be able to repay. it's disgusting.

    it's not in the interest of credit card companies to have people pay their debts. they increasingly make their money off these late fees and punative interest rates from marginal customers trying to do "the right thing." the bush administration's changing of the bankruptcy laws made it harder to charge off this kind of debt, once again, helping big business take advantage of individuals least able to fight back or effect change in the laws. grrrr

    you do have a point about education however. it's been my experience that american kids are *not* taught fiscal responsibility, or even the most basic of fiscal tasks such as balancing a checkbook. without being educated about the consequences of their actions, how can we expect them to behave responsibly?

    in high school, my dad gave me my lunch money at the beginning of the month. if i ran out, tough--i didn't eat lunch, or had to make something and bring it to school. each semester i was given a budget for clothes. i could spend the cash as i wished, but couldn't ask for any more. he encouraged me to get a part-time job (which i did). he also explained how developing a good credit history would help in the future, so when time came to purchase my first home, i was ready.

    how many of us in LPSG-land just give our little darlings everything they want: cell phones, credit cards, clothes, cars... without instilling them the value of what they're receiving?
     
  15. Principessa

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    I thought that was what you were getting at. I just took longer to say it. :biggrin1:

    I think that is the real source of the problem.
     
  16. Jovial

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    The institutions that lent her the money are paying for it, so maybe they will learn something from it.

    I'm sure there are a bunch of rules where she has to sell some of her stuff to pay off some of the debt, but it still won't pay it off. I'm not sure how you expect someone to pay off their debt if they can't earn enough money to pay the interest. What are we supposed to do, throw them in jail? That still won't get any money out of them. As long as we allow people to borrow money, then we have to have a way to handle people who get in over their head. And like others said, their FICO score is messed up for 10 years, so they do get punished for declaring bankruptcy.
     
  17. Damian Johnson

    Damian Johnson New Member

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    NEVER
     
  18. Osiris

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    Obviously as someone who just nearly avoided bankruptcy over a business investment gone horribly bad, this is a hot topic to me. The credit card companies are basically whores. You turn on the TV and here is some sexy, skinny little thing spending all this money on expensive trips, fencing lessons, etc. All this being done to her singing "These are a few of my Favorite Things." This pisses me off and is exactly the reason my kids "pay" for their cell phones. Yes, they are partially so their mother and I can keep track of them, but my kids have the latest, greatest T-Mobile Windows Phones (pops got a deal on them, remember I am a professor of shabby chic). Now they used to get their phones "repossessed" a lot. Their chores pay "their bill" and they know this. Chores not done? Pops takes the phone. Try to play funny and act like "I left it at Jon's house." No problem, T-Mobile gets a call to suspend service. Yes very childish on the surface, but so os dancing with the devil and thinking yoyu will never have to pay the band.

    Now, my wife and I have 3 credit cards between us and we only use them in emergencies. We used them this Christmas just to keep them active. They also got completely paid off before the billing cycle. This way we keep the card active, our credit on good ground, and we aren't spending money we don't have. 99.9% of all purchases we make are with our debit cards linked to our accounts because the biggest mistake people make is using a credit card like money. That is what gets people, like the idiot 9inchcanadian mentioned, in trouble. My wife and I get offers for cards with $5,000 limits and they go straight to the shredder. We could make a nice tile mosaic out of the cards we get sent and clip. The three cards we keep we use sparingly and pay off immediately. The main one because we earn airline miles for it's use. We also use that card for larger purchases as the interest rate for it is less than what Best Buy would charge me if I financed through them. Just like their money, people need to learn to manage their credit responsibly, especially since the majority of employers now do a credit screen and if you have terrible credit, you could face not getting a job now.

    It chaps my hide to see people struggling to get by, living paycheck to paycheck, not abusing credit and still needing to file bankruptcy while some moron with an annual income of $24,000 is living like Paris Hilton because the credit whores keep sending them cards though they know the people can't afford it. They just make sure these idiots take out credit insurance that pays back the credit card company if the person goes bust. Then it's all of us that pay that price with higher insurance rates across the board because some moron got a huge credit limit and bought some ridiculous bling.

    When I was a child, people who didn't pay their credit card debt, didn't get more cards. Where did that logical thinking go? Just as people need to be responsible, I think the Fed needs to regulate just how these credit whores throw all this credit to people completely undeserving.
     
  19. Northland

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    Then there was Sam. Sam went and declared bankruptcy. I hold this S.O.B. up as an example of what is wrong with U.S. bankruptcy laws. You see, Sam worked full time and had a tidy sum socked away in various accounts. Then the aging fool began following around women half his age. Soon Sam began to get that old familiar tingling in his crotch- no, it wasn't his prostate confusing him on a need to urinate, Sam bought these women anything and everything. He handed his credit card over to J. and she purchased a fancy new wardrobe of clothing. Sam clung to the idea that soon he'd be placing his dormant dick into her. J. had other ideas and got Sam to pay for her vacation trip to Europe. She then dumped old Sam. Better luck next time I suppose.

    Well, the next one- we'll call her E. was a real doozie. E. spent months proclaiming herself to be a lesbian and then once she had Sam convinced she was, she turned and pounced on him and borrowed his credit cards. After all, she had a young child who needed a bicycle and she herself needed the latest cellphone (and of course someone to pay the bill). As Sam paid the bills, E. moved in on Johnny. She got sexual with Johnny and he enjoyed the pleasures of her body even though she was clearly nuts. Johnny had a need for sex- and gambling (financially, physically and personally). He enjoyed the sex, he even had me over one night to try her out. She was good, I can vouch for that (although I think the orgasm was a fake since I had barely entered her before the moans and screams of ecstasy began). I warned Johnny, he didn't listen.

    To wrap it up, Sam took his savings and bought a house. He signed the property to his daughter and then-still working full time at a union job with benefits- he declared bankruptcy and got it!

    Over in the other corridor, Johnny had to sell his home to pay the debts- legal (as I said, E. was good in bed, but she was a little psychotic and the police were brought in and charged Johnny with several alleged crimes, for which he was later cleared and in that time his job terminated him). Johnny went broke, tried the bankruptcy route and was told no. Meanwhile, Sam sits around collecting his pension from the job he worked at for 25+ years and his Social Security- and get this-he is living in a government subsidized apartment now. Turns out Sam is a smarter man than one might have thought and even though he never did have sex with J, E, L, R, or any of the others, he did posess two seperate SS numbers.

    As Sam sat around telling the world how he went bankrupt and bought his daughter a house, Johnny took a 12 inch knife and plunged it into his gut.

    One of the problems with bankruptcy laws is that there is no follow up on the bastards who have abused the system. There needs to be a better system on checking the persons out. Not all people are like Sam, many are broke for years. Many have to slowly rebuild. Credit card companies are equally responsible. Just last week the phone rang and I answered. The credit card company was worried because I hadn't used the card recently. I told her that if she looked, she would see I had. She said it been over two weeks and reminded me how I could get a lower interest rate for the next 6 months if I transfered any other balances over immediately (at a small transfer fee of course). After 6 months the remaining balance if any would be subject to normal interest rates. I declined. Not everyone would or perhaps even could. If one has twenty or thirty thousand dollars charged and spread over 4 cards, the initial offer seems too good. And there's always the possibility-remote as it may be- that the money can be paid within 6 months. One step closer to bankruptcy for those who grab this seductive tool.

    I have accumulated some debt at times from credit cards and considered filing for bankruptcy. The lure of freedom from debt has its appeal. I was raised differently though, and even in times when water, complimentary food samples and a 10 pound bag of rice, free ketchup packets from the McDonalds and Burger King and dry kidney beans were my entire dietary plan, I couldn't go that route. I don't hold it against those who legitimately do- many have no choice. Should the Sams of the world be allowed to force others to shoulder their debt? Of course not; but, neither should the man or woman who has accrued credit card debt due to medical expenses and lack of health insurance be denied the right to bankruptcy if they have checked all avenues for relief.



    Sleep peacefully Johnny and hopefully there is no debt where your soul landed.
     
  20. DC_DEEP

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    Grrr, don't get me started on that. It isn't just United; nearly all the airlines have had some small scandal in this area in the last few years. In this instance, the blame is 50/50 on the airline and the government. I'm sure you know the story, but for those who don't: the airlines are required by FEDERAL LAW to maintain special interest-bearing accounts into which specific amounts of money are to be deposited. The idea is that over time, it becomes like a trust fund, and those dollars can only be accessed to pay out (well-deserved) pensions to retirees. In periodic audits, the government discovered that none of the airlines were obeying the law, and the accounts were seriously shallow; the only thing that happened was the government shook a finger at them and said, "we've told you 12 times over the last 6 years to fix that problem. we will only tell you 25 more times!" Meanwhile, the highest level managers get astronomical bonuses each year, massive severance packages if they leave the company, and the pilots, flight attendants, and reservations agents take pay cuts and pension cuts to finance the fiscal irresponsibility of those who are getting million-dollar "end-of-year" bonuses. It sucks.

    I've never understood why credit card companies are granted immunity from usury laws. They would still be making shitloads of money if they were forbidden, by law, to charge (for instance) no more than 4 points over prime, wouldn't they?
    I remember a few years back when the laws changed to allow credit card companies to "price gouge" customers by starting a "minimum balance penalty" charge. In addition to annual fees and monthly service charges, if a customer paid the balance in full each month (read: no interest charges) the company would tack on the minimum balance fee. So you had a choice - carry a minimum balance on the card and pay the interest on it, or carry a zero balance and pay the additional fee. Either way, they got to charge you the annual fee, the monthly service fee, plus the "$25 fee or interest, whichever is higher."
    I never got an allowance, ever. I didn't get a clothing budget, either - at the beginning of each school year, Mom took us to the store and bought us our clothes and supplies. We got lunch money, and that was it. Household chores were not "rewarded" with money, we learned that every member of the household has to contribute something. From the time I could push a lawnmower in the summer, if I wanted spending money, I had to earn it. I didn't get a car until I could pay for it myself. I think it taught me some good lessons.
    Not really. The institutions can take huge corporate tax deductions for writing off bad debt, and make up the rest by charging higher fees to the customers who actually do pay.
    Well, no, not jail, but perhaps a rehab/halfway house situation, with some serious wage garnishment.

    Snoozan & njqt, the laws should be able to distinguish between "survival debt" and "frivolous debt." Some concession should be made for those who are in debt because of catastrophic situations, but not for those who simply indulge their "champagne taste on beer wages." Others may not see things the same way I do, but I think there's a huge difference between someone who is in debt because they had to have surgery and chemotherapy, and someone who is in debt because they simply want an Escalade, matching Prada shoes & handbag for every outfit, and won't wear a pair of jeans costing less than $125.
     
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