Should Clinton bow out?

[D_Kaye Throttlebottom]

I've adjusted my views on this. I think Hillary should stay in until the end of the last primary. I don't like her bashing the presumptive nominee til then, but I think she has to be able to say that she stayed in the whole race and that she did everything she could, before Superdels made it clear they were going to support which nominee.

The problem that I have with her staying in at this point, is that her campaign announced, is that her campaign is 20 million in debt.

I have a hard time seeing how she can claim that Obama cannot win, when she is losing and cannot get donors to support her candidacy or her argument.

She'll win WVA and Kentucky - but Puerto Rico??? Her argument is who will the general election. Puerto Rico can vote in primaries to nominate delegates - but Puerto Rico cannot vote in the general election. So for her argument about proving who will win a general election - her pointing to Puerto Ricco and including them in a popular vote is invalid. They are counted in a general election (they are a territory of the US, not a state).

 

[D_Cyprius Slapwilly]

I'm an Obama supporter, but I think Hillary has the right to stay in as long as she wants. Heaven forbid we let people vote!

Now the question as to why she's staying in... that I don't understand. She really has no shot at the nomination at this point, so unless there are some back-room agreements involving money/administration promises, it really doesn't make much sense from a candidate's standpoint. Especially when her campaign piggy-bank is in worse shape than McCain's hair.

 

[playainda336]

Hillary can obviously do what she wants. She stayed in this long, if she wants to stay in the race like a crippled cod competing against salmon swimming upstream then by all means let her.

If I were her, I'd keep my dignity and wait until 2012/2016.

 

[B_Lightkeeper]

Stay in there girl! She won't get my vote in November even if she is in the race then but I did vote for her over Obama. More dirt will come out against him - just wait and see.

 

[uncut1234]

she is about as dirty and ruthless as they come.... focusing more on personal life and past than anything else.. talk about desperate... give up and leave with what dignity you have left (which wasnt much to begin with) dumb woman...

 

[playainda336]

Stay in there girl! She won't get my vote in November even if she is in the race then but I did vote for her over Obama. More dirt will come out against him - just wait and see.

Obama pretty much put out all the dirt on him when he first started the race. He admitted to being a crack user and everything. The only way to attack him so far as been to attack the people around him because they haven't found anything on him.

And quite frankly, maybe Hillary was a blessing, because she has already hit him with any and everything the Repubs could have hit him with this fall.

 

[swordfishME]

Clinton has to stay in the race until the 4th of June 2008- not for herself but for Obama. Obama is going to lose the next couple of states by an anticipated 30-40 point. If she is still a candidate, he can honestly say that people made a choice. If she withdraws and he still loses by these huge margins, all of a sudden electibility-with-white-voters questions arise.

Also I disagree with all of these down and out, yesterday's news stuff about her. She may have lost the party's nomination, but there are still a frightening number of Clinton loyalists in the Democratic Party. If he does not placate her to her satisfaction, the Clintons will make sure that a potential Obama administration is a disaster.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Now the question as to why she's staying in... that I don't understand. She really has no shot at the nomination at this point, so unless there are some back-room agreements involving money/administration promises, it really doesn't make much sense from a candidate's standpoint. Especially when her campaign piggy-bank is in worse shape than McCain's hair.

Although it's impossible for Clinton to win the nomination by obtaining the necessary 2,025 delegates, Obama needs to take at least 75% of the remaining ones in order for him to obtain it as well. And considering how much support Clinton has in the few remaining states it doesn't look too likely. By the end of it, neither candidate could have the necessary delegates to win. That would take us to the Democratic Convention where a final vote would be conducted. As for her campaign funds, there's nothing in the rule books that states she can't borrow from others in order to keep going. Much to the chagrin of certain people who think a campaign should be determined by the amount of money one can raise.

Obviously, there are people on this earth that still think she's a viable candidate. That's why she's staying in and that's why the contest remains this close. It makes sense that Obama-extremists would want her to quit, but she's not completely out of the picture. As long as she has a little chance in winning, she should stick it out to the end.

 

[Industrialsize]

Although it's impossible for Clinton to win the nomination by obtaining the necessary 2,025 delegates, Obama needs to take at least 75% of the remaining ones in order for him to obtain it as well. And considering how much support Clinton has in the few remaining states it doesn't look too likely. By the end of it, neither candidate could have the necessary delegates to win. That would take us to the Democratic Convention where a final vote would be conducted. As for her campaign funds, there's nothing in the rule books that states she can't borrow from others in order to keep going. Much to the chagrin of certain people who think a campaign should be determined by the amount of money one can raise.

Obviously, there are people on this earth that still think she's a viable candidate. That's why she's staying in and that's why the contest remains this close. It makes sense that Obama-extremists would want her to quit, but she's not completely out of the picture. As long as she has a little chance in winning, she should stick it out to the end.

She has NO chance of winning......Unless Obama gets hit by a bus, asteroid, lightning etc....

 

[B_Lightkeeper]

I think all this "delegate and super delegate" shit is just that. Shit. I'm for popular vote of the people.
The next time I go and vote in a primary, I'll leave those boxes blank.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

She has NO chance of winning......Unless Obama gets hit by a bus, asteroid, lightning etc....

The scenario I've explained is very possible and can happen. It's a slim chance that Hillary will win, but to quote Misato Katsuragi from Neon Genesis Evangelion, "It's still not a zero". We can sit here and act as if every action in government represents the majority of the common people's views, and we can also sit here and continue to make these outlandish statements (although I wish the majority of these would stop as well). Or we can be prepared for any unexpected turn of events that may (or may not) change the outcome of this contest.

2000 proves that a candidate can have the vote of the people and still lose. Obama is comfortably in the lead, but if this goes to the Convention for a final vote it could get interesting. Pledges do not equal "confirmed votes", and anyone of these Super Delegates can change their mind. It's happened before and it can certainly happen again.

 

[D_Tintagel_Demondong]

I think all this "delegate and super delegate" shit is just that. Shit. I'm for popular vote of the people.
The next time I go and vote in a primary, I'll leave those boxes blank.

The DNC system is kind of hindered with the same foibles that the federal system has with it's electoral college. If the primary results are close, I can see a horrible, yet familiar, fiasco arising.

she is about as dirty and ruthless as they come.... focusing more on personal life and past than anything else.. talk about desperate... give up and leave with what dignity you have left (which wasnt much to begin with) dumb woman...

At least you aren't bitter!

She has NO chance of winning......Unless Obama gets hit by a bus, asteroid, lightning etc....

Hmm. If the DNC Rules Committee rules in favor of hillary then she'll get over 50 new delegates. If things go well in KY, WV and PR and the race tightens, she could get many undeclared delegates. It's not over yet.

Hillary for Secretary of Transportation!​

 

[D_Kaye Throttlebottom]

POPULAR VOTE DOES NOT DETERMINE THE WINNER IN A GENERAL ELECTION - IT NEVER HAS

2000 - election is not the same ballpark, zipcode as this election.

What made 2000 a snafu - was the voter fraud that took place in Florida and the action of the supreme court awarding the state of Florida's electoral results. Not Al Gore winning the popular vote. Al Gore wasn't the first candidate that won the popular vote and lost the presidency.

Andrew Jackson 1824 ( Congress elected JQ Adams)

Samuel J Tilden 1876 (RB Hayes declared the Electoral; College winner by an electoral Commission)

Grover Cleveland 1888 (Benjamin Harrison gained Electoral College majority)

Albert Gore 2000 (Disputed Florida electors awarded to GW Bush after Supreme Court Ruling - at contest was one state election - not the popular vote)

If the popular vote determined the winner, then candidates would campaign in the most densely populated regions. Congressman and representatives would only get money for those regions b/c that is where the voting block would be.

This current primary isn't just the popular vote, it's the most states, most delegates. Hillary new argument to get the democratic nomination is that she can win the popular vote by including WVA, KY and Puerto Rico. The problem is that Puerto Rico cannot vote in the general election - they are a territory of the US - not a state. And in the general election - the popular vote does not determine the winner. See above - it's not just Al Gore losing the popular vote. It was that Florida's electoral votes were contested and that STATE's election results determined the outcome.

 

[D_Kaye Throttlebottom]

!

 

[playainda336]

Although it's impossible for Clinton to win the nomination by obtaining the necessary 2,025 delegates, Obama needs to take at least 75% of the remaining ones in order for him to obtain it as well.

Actually...according to CNN's delegate counter (Democratic delegate calculator - CNN.com), Clinton can win 70% of the remaining delegates AND super delegates and Obama still wins the nomination. It really is over at this point.

 

[Skull Mason]

Damn I've been gone for a solid month and your still spouting off the same shit, but your right, it IS over at this point. Unfortunately for the democratic party.

 

[D_Thoraxis_Biggulp]

70 is rounding up, but yeh that doesn't make the point any less valid. (Figured I'd get that in there before the nitpickers tried to argue the exact numbers.) There's 438 remaining delegates and super delegates, of which Clinton needs 306. That's 69.9%. Obama, on the other hand, only needs 134 of 'em. That' just 30.6%.
It is mathematically possible for Clinton to win, but given how close this race has been as well as how much credibility she's losing lately, it's extremely improbable.

Edit:
Here's where I get my numbers.
RealClearPolitics - 2008 Elections - Democratic Delegate Count

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

Damn I've been gone for a solid month and your still spouting off the same shit, but your right, it IS over at this point. Unfortunately for the democratic party.

Yeah, well you keep yo' lil' ass close to this board, boi.
Had enuff of your truancy.

 

[deleted213967]

Actually...according to CNN's delegate counter (Democratic delegate calculator - CNN.com), Clinton can win 70% of the remaining delegates AND super delegates and Obama still wins the nomination. It really is over at this point.

Congratulations! As the WSJ pointed out today, the Focus Group states (including my own) really made Obama the winner.

Relatively small groups of "non-typical" (euphemism) people with much time on their hands swarmed the caucuses and sent their not-so-representative delegates Obama's way.

As the WSJ illustrated, in WA, only 51% of the primary voters went to Obama at the "beauty contest" primary (with nearly 700,000 votes)...

...but a whopping 68% of the caucusgoers voted for him (250,000 votes only).