Should Pfc. Steven Green be executed?

Mem

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Yes, he's no better than a serial or spree killer, but he's also no worse than you or me. At least, his life is worth as much as yours or mine, and is therefore precious. The right to exist is something that has never been in your power to grant or deny anyone.

I don't know about you, but he's worse than me. His life is worth shit.
 

Mem

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He has been diagnosed with personality disorder. Does that make him not completely responsible?

Don't all serial and spree killers have personality disorders. Should we feel bad for them because their mother yelled at them?
 

pym

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How is justice served by killing someone? Nobody can make reparations of any sort by dying. This crime is beyond amends, and killing another person can't restore balance.

Perhaps the real heart of the matter is that "JUSTICE" is not the issue here at all. There is no attempt at amends or restoration of balance.
Reparations are not expected{from the condemned}. It is simply a level of PUNITIVE action as prescribed by existing law for a transgression of this magnitude. The jury decides guilt. The judge prescribes the sentence.
The right or wrong of this something people have been debating since Socrates, i'd imagine. What can anyone weigh that against? {an interesting allusion, that, Blind justice/scales. The egyptians saw the eternal fate of ones soul determined by the weight of ones heart against a feather of truth} But my sympathies in this case lie completely with that Iraqi family. That to me was far more wrong than what might await this renegade soldier.
 

B_Hickboy

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Perhaps the real heart of the matter is that "JUSTICE" is not the issue here at all. There is no attempt at amends or restoration of balance.
Reparations are not expected{from the condemned}. It is simply a level of PUNITIVE action as prescribed by existing law for a transgression of this magnitude. The jury decides guilt. The judge prescribes the sentence.
The right or wrong of this something people have been debating since Socrates, i'd imagine. What can anyone weigh that against? {an interesting allusion, that, Blind justice/scales. The egyptians saw the eternal fate of ones soul determined by the weight of ones heart against a feather of truth} But my sympathies in this case lie completely with that Iraqi family. That to me was far more wrong than what might await this renegade soldier.
You raise another interesting issue. What would the Iraqis have done with Green?
 

pym

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You raise another interesting issue. What would the Iraqis have done with Green?

I am not any kind of a legal expert....i am only discussing my opinions here. Based on what i have seen as an outcome for Saddam.....i would have to assume it would be death by hanging. It really is an extroadinary thing to me that this case is being tried in a Federal court and not a military tribunal. Either way.....the outcome may be the same as the fate that would have been meeted out in Iraq. It is going to be very interesting to see the sentance handed out in this case.
As much as i abhore what PFC Green has done with his comrades, I feel that this sort of crime reflects back on the USA too. I feel that the USA is responsible for the "Justice" you spoke of earlier. What form that would take.....i don't know.
 

Drifterwood

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This is my view on capital punishment.

Green deserves to die. In fact, natural justice would throw him to the family and community that he violated.

However, killing a killer, makes us no better than him. We endorse killing by being killers ourselves. It is a very simple logic.

IMO civilised communities have risen above the very low level of killing.
 

B_Think_Kink

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To nudge this discussion back in the direction of Pfc. Green: He has been diagnosed with personality disorder. Does that make him not completely responsible? I've known personality - disordered individuals. They don't appear sick, they appear evil. It takes a real effort for me to see them as sick and not sinister. If this guy has a personality disorder, it doesn't mean he was not responsible for his actions. It means his mind is scrambled to the point of not being able to understand that it was wrong to not act on his impulses. He would have been able to stop himself, but there was nobody there to serve in the capacity of a conscience.

Most of the insanity defenses I've paid any attention to looked bogus. I'm anti-death penalty, but am completely in favor of locking dangerous people away where they can't repeat their crimes. This guy needs to be locked up for good.

A personality disorder doesn't mean you don't know right from wrong. Sociopaths well know that killing is murder and is illegal, but they'll do it anyway because they have no moral prohibition against it.

We can argue that any act of murder is the result of mental illness. Should we go down that route?
Right thanks for pointing that out jason. I have 2 personality disorders. I still know right from wrong. Without knowing exactly which ones he has, it's hard to say how much it came into effect with his actions.

I would still be hard pressed to save his ass just because he's been diagnosed with a personality disorder.
 

Phil Ayesho

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US ex-soldier convicted of Iraq rape and killings - Americas, World - The Independent

Green premeditated the murder of the parents and younger sister of a fourteen year old girl, whom his friends raped whilst he killed the rest of the family. He then raped her and murdered her when he was done.

So I would have thought that by US standards this guy was headed for death. Personally I would send him back to Iraq to serve a life means life life sentence.

Ordinarily, I am against the death penalty.
In many ways, it seems to me that putting a fellow in a box for 40 or 50 years is a lot more punishing than a quick out.


However... I feel somewhat differently about crimes committed in the uniform of the US military service.

It is bad enough that that we ask our soldiers to do horrific things for their nation... but to bring dishonor to that nation thru your action in uniform seems to me a crime transcending the personal...

War is such a horror in its own right, that it becomes far more sacred a trust that no serving member commit the slightest step beyond the rules of engagement.

I think the fellow should be stripped of his uniform in public, and then shot by his fellow soldiers.
Then his body tossed in a hole and lit on fire.
And his ashes pissed on.


And I think the fucks who warranted torture by serving US personnel deserve the same for shaming the entire nation.
 

thadjock

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And I think the fucks who warranted torture by serving US personnel deserve the same for shaming the entire nation.

i agree, cheney, bush and rumsfeld should be swinging from the gallows. I don't understand why we don't have a truth commission yet or a full federal investigation and a criminal trial. they need to be tried at the Hague, just like Milosevic. we are nothing but hippocrites if we don't apply the same rules to our own leaders as we do to those of other countries.

and i don't buy the argument that you'd have to hold the entire congress accountable, it was the DOJ that tossed out the constitution and wrote briefs that made torture possible, and the orders to torture came from the president not a joint session of congress.

we need some top down justice, instead of using soldiers as scapegoats.
 

pym

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And now there is this horror:
A fragging of our own troops by one of there own.:frown1: :34:
GI held after 5 soldiers killed in Iraq - Conflict in Iraq- msnbc.com

When are we going to be sending our military home from Iraq?
Are kids that have spent half there lives in front of a computer and the television mentally ready for awaits them in a combat scenario? Can 9 to 12 weeks of boot-camp really do that? Is patrolling the streets of Baghdad anything like playing a video game?
Again.....i ask, Why are 'WE' in Iraq?