Who are you to say what someone can and can't do, your view that prostitution is an act of violence to oneself is just your view, a friend of mine who turned to prostitution despite having a lucrative career made an informed choice, a choice which was hers to make. Some women don't have any other options, they may be forced into prostitution, is working at mcdonalds something you think should be prohibited, I can guarantee someone flipping burgers for a crappy wage to thankless customers isn't enjoying their job half as much as some hookers do.
Should prostitution be legalized?
- Thread starter B_johnschlong
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D_Gunther Snotpole
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That's the fundamental point to make, imo.
Monsieur Schlong may have a certain point when he says that European Leftists tend to want abolition of prostitution ... but they are fools. Prostitution will never be abolished.
The very attempt is an infringement of fundamental human rights, the right to agency in your life when your desired action does not promote injury to others.
The questions of whether prostitution promotes injury to others and to society can be debated endlessly, but I don't think there can be much debate that:
1) Prostitution will not be eradicated, this side of the Millennium;
2) The risks both to prostitutes and to johns increase exponentially when buying a prostitute's services must be done in the shadow of illegality. The health status of the prostitute will not be checked; criminal elements often control the prostitute; illegality, of course, increases the stigma which attaches to the prostitute; and the stigma and the illegality both increase the likelihood of violence against the prostitute, especially if it is a woman serving men.
Prostitution probably does entail a degradation of the humanity both of seller and buyer (although I'm not sure about this). And it might be nice if spontaneous human choice on all sides caused that degradation to cease. Be that as it may, if someone wants to sell sexual services, and someone else wants to buy them, the state should not impede their free choice.
For me, it's exactly the same point one would make for the legalization of most drugs (perhaps not all).
I'm a libertarian on these points.
If one insists on attempting to effect abolition, you will fail and the disadvantages that attend to legal prohibition will continue. The (unattainable) best will have become the enemy of the good.
Why are you guys still taking this troll seriously? He's either laughing at all of you, or so mentally deficient he can't comprehend what you are saying. In either case, responding in a serious manner is futile.
D_Gunther Snotpole
Account Disabled
I just realized ... Mr. Schlong is a virtuoso troll.
What he does is close to an art form.
EDIT:
The former, I think.
And yes, quite, quite futile.
(I'd never dealt with him before ... but after his Maoist eructation, I caught on. I should read NIC's Little Red Book more often.)
What he does is close to an art form.
EDIT:
The former, I think.
And yes, quite, quite futile.
(I'd never dealt with him before ... but after his Maoist eructation, I caught on. I should read NIC's Little Red Book more often.)
These addicts on the contrary are happy and live life to the fullest, in its sociality and decently:
![Chairman_Mao_Visit_Guangdong_Country.jpg]()
yep, that's exactly what China looked like last time I was there. It's also great how communist countries are so successful and affluent that there is absolutely no prostitution in any of them. I was in Vietnam and trying to find a hooker and they're all like... "what the hell is a hooker? Would you like some free pot? We're all so happy we hardly ever use ours." What a grand place. I offered them some US dollars for the pot but they didn't want it because the dollar is so weak. Even though 1 USD goes for over 16,000 Vietnamese Dong. They're just like "fuck you and your worthless US money. We have absolutely no concept or understanding of economics. We love Euros! yay! Euros and pot for everyone!" Then one little girl from a sweatshop came and offered to lick my pussy. Her foreman was like "it's okay! she's scheduled to work another 12 hours later today. She can take a break." Such generosity!
D_Gunther Snotpole
Account Disabled
You really know how to send a guy to his travel agent, doncha, NIC?
The deal of the century. Buyer's market for sure.
the vast majority of prostitution is against ones will, controlled by criminal enterprises and is unhealthy. Not to mention the connection between those who are selling and the hard drug sale/usage. The sex trade may be extremly lucrative for some but on the whole it promotes negative lifestyles and actions (this is by no means a representation of everyone involved)
By the way, I'm all in favor of drugs that enhance sociality and collective happiness. But heroin, marihuana, cocaine, and other forms of individualist, consumerist dope are anti-social. They must be banned.
Good forms of drugs would be Stalinist mass spectacles and rallies, Buddhist mass meditation sessions, Maoist communal mass games and soup kitchens, the North Korean mass games, etc... these have a clear delirious effect on the masses, who become drugged in such a way that they embrace sociality. There are so many possibilities for collectivist drugs, but capitalism can't stand these.
The pathetic individualist drugs that destroy the social, these must be fought and banned forever.
This crack prostitute does not have the right to destroy herself:
![narkonarkotikar168165c6gu.jpg]()
Capitalism and Angloprotestantism says: go ahead, you are "free" to destroy yourself; you "choose" this yourself, in all freedom.
These addicts on the contrary are happy and live life to the fullest, in its sociality and decently:
![Chairman_Mao_Visit_Guangdong_Country.jpg]()
Ok I can't imagine that anyone actually believes this communist propaganda.
D_Gunther Snotpole
Account Disabled
If we take this as a given, lorne (and I'm already on your side since, like me, you're an Albertan
), then do we soften those hard truths by attempting abolition or by instituting regulation?(I think only regulation will make any sort of dent.)
If we take this as a given, lorne (and I'm already on your side since, like me, you're an Albertan
(I think only regulation will make any sort of dent.)
I do believe that that if possible it would be nice to have it all go away. But that sure isn't ever going to happen. So the only way to try and reduce it is a regulatory system. similar to that of nevada or various euro state laws.
Why do you guys think the communists in China, Vietnam and North Korea are so smart? I mean, Asian girls have no hips. How is this possible?
Be carefull, I got a spanking for calling someone an idiot, lol
B_Veronica_Divine
Experimental Member
This is one of those areas where I say: Yes until we make the world so good a place that it is no longer neccesary.
There's no denying that prostitutes for the most part live pretty wretched lives, but until there is no demand for sex labor OR providing sex labor no longer seems an "only way out" for some women, maing those lives as easy as possible is the most moral course.
I think it should be legal, heavilly regulated, and liscensed. Mandatory STD screening and drug screening should be a part of it.
And above all I hope that someday we make this sick planet well enough to the point where it is no longer appealing for Johns or desperate women.
There's no denying that prostitutes for the most part live pretty wretched lives, but until there is no demand for sex labor OR providing sex labor no longer seems an "only way out" for some women, maing those lives as easy as possible is the most moral course.
I think it should be legal, heavilly regulated, and liscensed. Mandatory STD screening and drug screening should be a part of it.
And above all I hope that someday we make this sick planet well enough to the point where it is no longer appealing for Johns or desperate women.
D_Gunther Snotpole
Account Disabled
Bingo, says I.
Bingo, for the first paragraph.
As for the second, yup, it's a beautiful hope, Veronica.
Sure, but I don't believe these choices are "informed" or entirely freely made. They are only possible in a society that values the myth of free choice and individualism.
A society can decide to ban the ideology of individualism and free choices, which comes down to eliminating the preconditions which make "free choices" possible in the first place.
To me, prostitution is only possible and "thinkable" in failed societies (i.e. capitalist, consumerist, individualist societies). In better societies, women would never even think of becoming prostitutes.
I think America's millions of hamburger flipping proletes are a scandal. Just as in the case of prostitution, the goal should be to eliminate, abolish, destroy the preconditions that make this scandal possible.
In the case of hamburger flipping this means destroying the tyrannical Anglo-American form of capitalism, which reduces millions of people to slaves and which kills countless people just so because an elite can profit from it.
In the case of prostitution, it comes down to destroying the ideology of individualism, consumerism and capitalism.
Human sexuality and the exploitation of women should not be commodified. You think it should.
Tell me, why shouldn't people be trafficked and sold, why shouldn't we commodify babies and life itself? Give me one good reason why we shouldn't organise a market of human slaves while we're at it? Historically this existed, but luckily the abolitionists got rid of this exploitation. Now it is time to get rid of one of the last vestiges of human slavery, and that is prostitution.
I have nothing against your friend who decided to become a prostitute. Nothing against prostitutes. I only have something against the system that brings women to make these choices, most often, in an unfree way, out of sheer necessity.
By the way, there's great evidence that in the former Soviet Union and in East Germany prostitution was virtually non-existent. Not because the state was repressive, but because women were much more free and equally treated and lived under material conditions that guaranteed them enough means so that they did not have to make the poor girl's choice of becoming a prostitute.
Contrary to what some may think, the Soviet world developed a very mature, hedonistic sexual culture, but one in which respect was key, and framed within the right material conditions that allowed such a mature sexual culture to flourish. Prostitution was seen as a dumb, old world, capitalist tragedy.
See e.g. this series of studies on the communist libido compared to the capitalist libido:
Du 01.02. au 04.02.2007 - ARTE
Prostitution was a weakness of the capitalist system that was effectively abolished in the communist world, not regulated or prohibited.
With the collapse of the soviet universe, you see a resurgence of prostitution - a massive exploitation of millions of women. See China today, or Russia or Eastern European countries, where millions are forced into selling their bodies. Capitalism, liberalism and the commodification of sexuality go hand in hand. See Vietnam, a rapidly liberalising country - millions of prostitutes and children forced into selling their bodies.
They don't do this out of a "free choice" or because they are "well informed", forget it. They are forced into this because they're poor and the capitalist state doesn't give a shit about these people.
We were talking about drugs: alcohol abuse in Russia skyrocketed when the Soviet state fell; capitalism and its freedom has resulted in a reduced life expectancy of men, with 10 years! An absolutely unprecedented decline. All this is due to the collapse of the socialist state - but yes, these millions of alcoholics in their cardbord box houses in the slums of Moscow are "free" to "choose" to drink themselves to death or not. In the Soviet era, drinking vodka was an inherently social ritual. Nothing of the sort today.
The fact is that capitalism leads to the breakdown of all social mechanisms that would otherwise offer a material safety net which allows women and men to live in real freedom and not in eternal prostitution (be it wage slave labor or sexual prostitution).
Contrary to what some may think, the Soviet world developed a very mature, hedonistic sexual culture, but one in which respect was key, and framed within the right material conditions that allowed such a mature sexual culture to flourish. Prostitution was seen as a dumb, old world, capitalist tragedy.
See e.g. this series of studies on the communist libido compared to the capitalist libido:
Du 01.02. au 04.02.2007 - ARTE
Prostitution was a weakness of the capitalist system that was effectively abolished in the communist world, not regulated or prohibited.
With the collapse of the soviet universe, you see a resurgence of prostitution - a massive exploitation of millions of women. See China today, or Russia or Eastern European countries, where millions are forced into selling their bodies. Capitalism, liberalism and the commodification of sexuality go hand in hand. See Vietnam, a rapidly liberalising country - millions of prostitutes and children forced into selling their bodies.
They don't do this out of a "free choice" or because they are "well informed", forget it. They are forced into this because they're poor and the capitalist state doesn't give a shit about these people.
We were talking about drugs: alcohol abuse in Russia skyrocketed when the Soviet state fell; capitalism and its freedom has resulted in a reduced life expectancy of men, with 10 years! An absolutely unprecedented decline. All this is due to the collapse of the socialist state - but yes, these millions of alcoholics in their cardbord box houses in the slums of Moscow are "free" to "choose" to drink themselves to death or not. In the Soviet era, drinking vodka was an inherently social ritual. Nothing of the sort today.
The fact is that capitalism leads to the breakdown of all social mechanisms that would otherwise offer a material safety net which allows women and men to live in real freedom and not in eternal prostitution (be it wage slave labor or sexual prostitution).
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