Should spanking kids be illegal? (Canada)

[D_Tintagel_Demondong]

I guess that I'm indifferent about this issue: I know of people who were never hit as punishment and turned out fine; I know of people who were hit and turned out fine.

I don't want more laws, but I know that abuse does happen... and defenseless kids need protection. I guess that it's the margins that confuse me.

This is why people are sticking their noses in places where it doesn't belong....like the lives and houses of other people.

Giving your kid a whack on the ass is not "phyiscal violence". Labeling it with this type of description is just rediculous and looking for a way to make something sound 100 times worse than it is.

As an example beating your kids and leaving bruises is abuse and always has been. Spanking when done properly is not, so let's stop with calling it physicaly violence shall we?

So, what is it? Can I come up to you on the street and give you a "whack on the ass"? If it's not physical violence, then it's OK. Bend over!

It was banned in the UK a few years ago now and as much as this was an achievement for children's rights groups etc i think that in the end it is counter-productive.
Making into law actions to protect the few children at risk from bad parents is taking away a valuable tool for discipline which will result in unruly behaviour later down the line.
Kids in the UK are very anti-social when they are empowered with the "you ca'nt touch me" attitude. Abuse of teachers in schools are commonplace and i work in a store where the abusive kids are more intimidating than abusive adults on the grounds that your hands are tied dealing with children...you can physically remove an adult from the store safe in the knowledge that if you are assaulted by them then you can justifiably defend yourself but with a child you ca'nt do anything.
I and most of my peers grew up with smacking and as much as it is unpleasant at the time it has had no negative effect on us and besides it is MEANT to be unlikeable, thats the point.
The carrot and stick method is very effective...take away the stick and you get chaos!

This fascinates me. You make it seem as it if the UK is held hostage by a pack of brats. I can understand that there should be laws against physical abuse against a child, but maybe troubled children need a bit more of Mother Nature's 'encouragement'. I like the carrot/stick method--rewarding good behavior will discourage bad behavior... in theory. From what I remember of my primary school days is: most spoiled children were not hit, but many kids who were not hit were not spoiled.

She is 6 years old and is quite elaborate verbally, but we are dealing with a phase of her starting to cry when she is told to do something she doesnt like and now we are going back to the "Just tell me what you are thinking/feeling and we can talk about it"

My nephews were never spanked, and they are great kids. My sister readily admits that she lucked out, and that if they were born with problems that made reasoning difficult, she might have to resort to corporal punishment. She's not against it, but it seems to be the only solution for some kids. I'm sure a downie or fragile X kid would not be easy to reason with--autistics may lack empathy, but at least they have reasoning skills.

 

[Xcuze]

I dont think all children would respond to the same methods in the same way. A short sharp spank would work for some and a stern telling off would work for others. There is no exact formula for raising children to be decent, caring and respectful adults. Most parents just do their best & then hope for the best.

 

[Tattooed Goddess]

Spanking worked a lot better for me than it did my older brothers. They never seemed to fear the paddle. Hell i still cringe when i think about the pain. I never resented my parents for it later in life, but i think they regret the way they dealt with us verbally and angrily at times.

Some kids really arent phased by the pain of spanking, others start crying before it even comes....others get their feelings hurt really bad for it (like my daughter)

 

[EboniGoddess]

I do....parents don't know when they cross the line from discipline to abuse. Outlawing it altogether wouldn't be good for those who aren't abusive but if it saves one child thats all that matters. Anybody hear of the 16 year old girl who was severly beaten by her grandmother? Allegedly the grandmother walked in on her granddaughter doing some lesbian action with a girl of the same age who lived next door. She then beat the girl until her cane broke in half and after that she beat the girl with the belt. The 60-something year old grandmother was arrested and charged with child abuse. Yes, maybe the girl shouldn't be doing what she did but its not against the law. What I don't understand is did the girl just stand there and let her grandmother beat her? Why didn't she put up a fight? This happened like last week

 

[deleted3782]

A little bit of physical pain does get the message through.

Thats just a scary statement. Each person's definition of "a little bit" is different from others...that's part of the problem. Physical pain does equate violence, in my mind.

This is why people are sticking their noses in places where it doesn't belong....like the lives and houses of other people.

Being a part of society sucks, doesn't it?

I think its strange that the non-spanker committee is always filled with the following people:

People who were never spanked

People who don't have kids

People who were physically abused

I responed to rec's post because I am an example of a person who was never spanked, and I thinks its worth mentioning that it can be done. My parents werent the best that walked the earth, but they did take up the challenge of raising me without resorting to hitting me, and for that I'm grateful.

Aside from that, I assure you I am on no committee. Just a pacifist Quaker. :wink:

 

[D_Bob_Crotchitch]

Funny isn't it? The people who aren't raising the children are trying to control the ones that have them. I remember Doctor Spock said don't spank your child. He became a father, and rewrote his book to say spanking can be a proper form of punishment. Let's all send the bad kids to them to raise.

 

[Tattooed Goddess]

I do....parents don't know when they cross the line from discipline to abuse. Outlawing it altogether wouldn't be good for those who aren't abusive but if it saves one child thats all that matters. Anybody hear of the 16 year old girl who was severly beaten by her grandmother? Allegedly the grandmother walked in on her granddaughter doing some lesbian action with a girl of the same age who lived next door. She then beat the girl until her cane broke in half and after that she beat the girl with the belt. The 60-something year old grandmother was arrested and charged with child abuse. Yes, maybe the girl shouldn't be doing what she did but its not against the law. What I don't understand is did the girl just stand there and let her grandmother beat her? Why didn't she put up a fight? This happened like last week

Ok that first line is from someone who doesnt have kids. The reason why i know this is because once you have children you are either an abusive parent or you are not from day one. You know when you are crossing the line but you are so fucked up that you don't care how you are hurting your children. These parents arent oblivious to their actions. There are some heavy handed parents out there who truly dont know where they fall on the line of discipline compared to the norm....but horribly abusive parents often make excuses in front of others, but carefully hide their abuse at home. Or relocate when DHS is after them.

A person who has had a child, knows from the first time they hold them in their arms whether or not they have the love that it takes to be a good parent and not beat their children.

Normal human beings can cross the line and if they do they feel very bad, ask for forgiveness and do their damnedest to never go there again. Spanking isnt the gateway into parents hitting their children all over the place.

Spanking always occurs in the same spot on the body, once you start slapping in the face, leaving bruises and keeping your child in fear, you are totally messed up and need some serious intervention.

Spanking should be a planned response for certain behavior and the boundaries should be set ahead of time as to what your next step will be if that doesnt work. You shouldnt be all out hitting your children in a fit of rage. The parents that will lose control, didn't lose control because they believed in spanking, they lost control far before the spanking started.

Parents just dont start beating their children when they are 15 years old, they start little forms of verbal abuse, impatience and severe strictness (or neglect) before the child can walk and talk.

Also, i was one of those people who said i would never have a child that acts like so and so's kid. Even though i try to be a good and attentive parent, i've been proven wrong many times about how a child inherently does things you've never taught them to do. You get put in situations that you never dream of when you are actually with the child 7 days a week that make you always think on your feet about how to handle the issues that come up.

 

[D_Tintagel_Demondong]

Some of our states here in the USA have similar laws.

I find it truly interesting (and puzzling) that the various governments flip-flop so often on so many different issues on whether a minor child is a citizen, a ward, or a chattel.

It's clear which side of the fence you are on, DC. I was interested in a teacher's persepective.

"Assault in Canada encompasses any intentional application of force to another person, including a gesture. If done in self-defence the act is not an offence (as long as the degree of force used is not unreasonable). Sometimes consent is also a defence. Assault causing bodily harm and assault with a weapon are much more serious." -- lawyers.ca

It seems that if kids are people, which they certainly appear to be, then spanking them is assault. The perpetrators should be jailed--even if they are the parents.

 

[Tattooed Goddess]

Bbucko, while it seems like i have it all together. I have to work VERY VERY hard to not lose my temper. Part of it is that i look at children as an example of their upbringing and i worry someone is going to think my child has a bad parent by some bad behavior she does. This is a normal parental concern but some people who have some OCD type issues can struggle even moreso with flying off the handle at the little things.

I've learned a lot from my mom, who went in a temporary 20 year insanity/instability season i think!

The reason why i have 1 child is because i do not want to have more than i can emotionally handle on my plate. It wouldnt be a favor to my daughter to turn into a crazy mother!

 

[EboniGoddess]

Ok that first line is from someone who doesnt have kids. The reason why i know this is because once you have children you are either an abusive parent or you are not from day one. You know when you are crossing the line but you are so fucked up that you don't care how you are hurting your children. These parents arent oblivious to their actions. There are some heavy handed parents out there who truly dont know where they fall on the line of discipline compared to the norm....but horribly abusive parents often make excuses in front of others, but carefully hide their abuse at home. Or relocate when DHS is after them.

A person who has had a child, knows from the first time they hold them in their arms whether or not they have the love that it takes to be a good parent and not beat their children.

Honestly, when I do have kids I would never beat them. When I was younger and I got beatens it did nothing for me. I was sorry while I was getting the beaten but the next day I was at school acting like a fool. To me being punished was worse. After a beaten I could go out side and play and it was over but when I couldn't go outside for a whole day i was miserable. The grandmother in the case I said above didn't think she did anything wrong and said it was just a "spanking". To protect these few bad parents sometimes measures need to be taken for all children. A few months ago there was this huge ordeal in Baltimore City when they found out like 65% of the children in public school weren't up to date with their shots. They either had to get their kids vaccinated or take them out of public school. Yes, only a few children may possibly get the diseases but to make sure all kids are safe there is a general requirement. I don't think anybody would object to that.


Oh and please don't mention that BS line that every parent tells their child: "IT HURTS ME MORE THAN IT HURTS YOU!"

That's B.S.

 

[D_Theophallus Kneedgroin]

I guess that I'm indifferent about this issue: I know of people who were never hit as punishment and turned out fine; I know of people who were hit and turned out fine.

I don't want more laws, but I know that abuse does happen... and defenseless kids need protection. I guess that it's the margins that confuse me.

So, what is it? Can I come up to you on the street and give you a "whack on the ass"? If it's not physical violence, then it's OK. Bend over!

Yes you can

My nephews were never spanked, and they are great kids. My sister readily admits that she lucked out, and that if they were born with problems that made reasoning difficult, she might have to resort to corporal punishment. She's not against it, but it seems to be the only solution for some kids. I'm sure a downie or fragile X kid would not be easy to reason with--autistics may lack empathy, but at least they have reasoning skills.

I was probably spanked 2 or 3 times in my childhood. To be honest, I don't remember it but I'd be willing to bet I deserved it.

At 15 my mother smacked me across the face for telling her to shut up.
Did I deserve that? Yes! Did I ever do it again? No!

Is a law like this really going to stop children from being abused? I have a feeling it won't. Will it give a snotty kid who got spanked the opportunity to get even with their parents? More than likely!!

 

[D_Bob_Crotchitch]

It's clear which side of the fence you are on, DC. I was interested in a teacher's persepective.

"Assault in Canada encompasses any intentional application of force to another person, including a gesture. If done in self-defence the act is not an offence (as long as the degree of force used is not unreasonable). Sometimes consent is also a defence. Assault causing bodily harm and assault with a weapon are much more serious." -- lawyers.ca

It seems that if kids are people, which they certainly appear to be, then spanking them is assault. The perpetrators should be jailed--even if they are the parents.

My mother was a teacher. She believed that spanking should be used as a last resort but it should still be an option.

 

[Tattooed Goddess]

Honestly, when I do have kids I would never beat them. When I was younger and I got beatens it did nothing for me. I was sorry while I was getting the beaten but the next day I was at school acting like a fool. To me being punished was worse. After a beaten I could go out side and play and it was over but when I couldn't go outside for a whole day i was miserable. The grandmother in the case I said above didn't think she did anything wrong and said it was just a "spanking". To protect these few bad parents sometimes measures need to be taken for all children. A few months ago there was this huge ordeal in Baltimore City when they found out like 65% of the children in public school weren't up to date with their shots. They either had to get their kids vaccinated or take them out of public school. Yes, only a few children may possibly get the diseases but to make sure all kids are safe there is a general requirement. I don't think anybody would object to that.


Oh and please don't mention that BS line that every parent tells their child: "IT HURTS ME MORE THAN IT HURTS YOU!"

That's B.S.

I think beating a child is never warranted. I live in a state with a very high child abuse rate. I'm always reading in our local paper about a dad, step dad or mom killing their infant or toddler because they were crying or wouldnt use the potty. It enrages me because often these children were getting severely injured as infants (when they couldnt possibly be old enough to be spanked) and these parents usually go on to have other children.

There is a slippery slope when a parent doesnt apply their own rules about spanking. For example, my daughter would only get 2 swats max at a time and then we have a lesson to talk about afterwards about what she did and why she got the spanking in the first place.

Child abuse is a sad reality, but i think it has its roots so deep in that person from their childhood, mental stability or temperament and the spanking was the avenue to let these frustrations out. Just like how many people drink and never become alcoholics, i think there are a lot of parents that have a predisposition to abuse and don't even know it because they arent allowed to treat fellow adults with that kind of disrespect.

I appreciate you sharing your own story with us, because it is important for people to hear.

 

[EboniGoddess]

WTF? Mother beats 3 yr. old child to death for wetting his pants! Not actual video of course

YouTube - Mother Kills 3 Year Old Son for Wetting His Pants

 

[Tattooed Goddess]

I was probably spanked 2 or 3 times in my childhood. To be honest, I don't remember it but I'd be willing to bet I deserved it.

At 15 my mother smacked me across the face for telling her to shut up.
Did I deserve that? Yes! Did I ever do it again? No!

Is a law like this really going to stop children from being abused? I have a feeling it won't. Will it give a snotty kid who got spanked the opportunity to get even with their parents? More than likely!!

You are so right, there is no law that will prevent parents from abusing their children any more than a molestation law keeps that crazy uncle from bothering every little girl he can get his hands on.

My aunt and Grandma were very abusive to their children, they had to get stitches, bones fixed, etc. They were also just as abusive to their animals. I find that how one treats their animals has a direct association to how they treat their children, vice versa. My aunt and Grandma would have spit in a cops face for telling them not to do it. They also moved around to avoid neighbors from turning them in for what they did to their kids.

I have been guilty of telling parents off for cussing out their toddler in the store. I totally humiliate that parent in front of customers and remind them how it feels to be embarassed. How we treat our kids will affect how our grandchildren will be raised.

 

[Rubenesque]

They did that here... little fuckers are out of control. Never mind outlawing spanking they should make it compulsory. And they should allow corporal punishments in schools too!

 

[D_Bob_Crotchitch]

That has nothing to do with spanking. That has to do with an unfit deranged mother killing her child. You can bet she was already abusive. Someone somewhere knew about her, and they should have reported her a long time ago.

 

[Tattooed Goddess]

Rommette, that same thing happened here in my small town not too long ago. I had to fill out extensive applications, have reliable references and had our vet records checked out to even adopt two dogs last week. I had to provide nothing but a carseat for the ride home from the hospital for my daughter. It's sad isnt it?

 

[deleted3782]

Is a law like this really going to stop children from being abused? I have a feeling it won't.

Hmm, we should repeal all speed limits!

I'm not up for a law...per se...though it is useful to reel in extreme abuse. Too often folks throw their hands up in the air and say "the kid deserved it" or "thats the only thing he responds to" and its good to know that there are options. I have just been raised to understand that hitting is not a proper solution.

 

[Tattooed Goddess]

A person who speeds isnt necessarily someone who would commit road rage though. There should be laws for some things, but i have a feeling those who beat their children arent the ones who will be obeying the child spanking law. They will just not do it in public to get caught.

Patrolmen watch the roads to enforce the speed limit law, but they dont watch what goes on behind closed doors to protect these children.