Should spanking kids be illegal? (Canada)

[griplock22]

While we are on the topic, did anyone else hear about the court in Quebec that overturned a father's decision to ground his daughter? The daughter actually took her father to court once he grounded her and the court ruled in favour of the daughter! It was reported on Global news (a credible news source in Canada), but unfortunately I didn't catch the whole segment. Where will this out of control Liberalism end?

that is absolutely ridonkulous!

 

[223790]

I've had friends and relatives with children who were, as all children do, pushing limits and testing boundaries. (By the way, that's why young children act out a lot of the time.) One was a pincher, one was a spitter, and several were kickers. I made it clear to all of them that around me, they had better correct that kind of behavior, or I would.

And, of course, the pincher made his way around the room one day, pinching everyone, and the mom did nothing. He pinched me, I pinched him back, hard. He cried a bit, his mom was furious with me, but guess what? He kept pinching others, but never went for me again. The story with the spitter was virtually the same, except I swatted his ass for spitting on me. That time, the mom gave me a hard time, so I told her "OK, next time, if your kid spits on me, I'll slap you instead. Satisfied?"

These were all 3 and 4 year olds, who should have been taught better and corrected the first time they tried something like that.

Good for you! My nephews never pulled their B.S. with me either. I made it very clear to them that there would be serious consequences if they ever did, and they never tested me (they told my sister and mother that they were afraid of me). I have NEVER hit them, but they knew where the line was drawn with me. A few years ago my sister freaked out on me when I disciplined her kids (verbally) for their rude behaviour at the dinner table. She wouldn't do anything about it - she actually defends their bad behaviour even when they tell her to "shut up" of "F*** off". I responded in kind to her and she has regretted it to this day. I told her that she was "on her own" from that day forward and I meant it. I refuse to have anything to do with her or her rotten children anymore. The kids moved in with their father and my sister's life is a shambles. She brought it on herself, so I have little sympathy for her. She created 2 perfect little monsters that I have no doubt will be facing prison once they are 18 years old and can't hide behind Canada's ludicrous child protection laws anymore.

 

[223790]

Just curious if all of these government and court imposed restrictions on what you can and can't do with your kids puts any of you off from having kids of your own someday? It sure puts me off from having them.

 

[223790]

that is absolutely ridonkulous!

You said it! It's an absolute disgrace and it make me incredibly !!!!

Never underestimate the power of the Internet. I Googled it and found it on-line. Here it is:

Quebec girl wins court case over field trip

 

[ZOS23xy]

i was spanked, my brothers were always getting spanked. My parents have learned a lot about patience and how to deal with things now that they dont have a housefull.

I've spanked my daughter, its worked in some cases and not in others. And now that she is very verbal we are able to move on to more productive and informative ways to deal with the problems.

My son's anger and lack of control was given over to time outs. He is also hyperactive and sometimes we just had to hold him down during a tantrum. Over time the actions lessened and he has not had one for years. We spoke a great deal to him about "differences" he had with other children, the he should realize he was different and there were things he needed to do.

A kid he knew who was also hyperactive was never told by his parents about what he needed to do among the normal people and gave over to impulse to doing illegal things (like throwing rocks at cars).

Once a child is verbal and can deal with some degrees of logic, there should be no reason to spank.

 

[B_Jennuine73]

This is a very interesting state of affairs.

For one, I do not believe in spanking. In my opinion, all spanking does is teach a child how to be sneakier so they don't get caught and hit. It degrades and physically hurts them.

There is a difference between punishment and discipline. Spanking is not discipline, it is punishment. Just wanted to clear that up.

As for whether I think spanking should be illegal, my answer is yes.

When my daughter was an infant, I took parenting courses. These courses should be mandatory instead of voluntary. The Ontario government sponsored these programs and I am very grateful for them. My daughter is well behaved. I reason with her, as much as she can reason at seven years old. I punish bad behaviour by taking away things she likes.

I think it is very easy for a parent to hit when angry at the child for disobeying the rules. Not for "discipline".

I wish I could find an editorial cartoon I saw a few years ago. It was of a man who just clearly hit their child (there were stars and exclamation points behind the drawing of the child rubbing their bum) and inside the dad's word bubble it said "That will teach you not to hit your brother!"

As to the comments about kids who aren't hit are spoiled brats, I don't believe it. I think the problem today is that parents are so busy with their careers/jobs, they don't have the time to parent properly. They feel guilt for being absent and buy the kids what they want to keep them happy. When the time comes the child needs discipline, the parent doesn't want to spend one of their only two days off being the bad guy. They feel sorry for their kids so they don't discipline them.
If this appeared to be a knock against parents who work all the time, it isn't at all. I meant lots of parents fall into the trap of feeling sorry for their kids and make up for lack of time with them in non-conducive ways.

 

[ZOS23xy]

^^^^

Often my Father would spank my brother for something. The moment he heft the area my brother would beat me up.

I believe it is called "passing it on."

 

[B_Jennuine73]

agreed! While parents have a huge part to do with the behavior of their children, there is a will involved with the other human being and sometimes they are just mean, sneaky, sass mouth son of a bitches no matter how they were raised.

I disagree. Children are a clean slate when they are born. They are innocent and whatever a parent does to teach them, directly and/or indirectly, affects how they will end up.

 

[marleyisalegend]

For one, I do not believe in spanking. In my opinion, all spanking does is teach a child how to be sneakier so they don't get caught and hit. It degrades and physically hurts them.

While this may be true for you, there are many who benefit spankings. There are few bad things I did that, after a spanking or two, I continued to do. I had an active imagination to sending my to my room and taking the toys away did nothing.

There is a difference between punishment and discipline. Spanking is not discipline, it is punishment. Just wanted to clear that up.

I fear a world where children's excessive poor behavior goes unpunished.

As for whether I think spanking should be illegal, my answer is yes.

I respect your ability to rear a child without physical punishment, but I don't think its anywhere near fair to impose such a law without astronomical evidence that physical punishment is ineffective and/or harmful. To suggest it be banned without a complete understanding of its use/effects is almost absurd.

When my daughter was an infant, I took parenting courses. These courses should be mandatory instead of voluntary. The Ontario government sponsored these programs and I am very grateful for them. My daughter is well behaved. I reason with her, as much as she can reason at seven years old. I punish bad behaviour by taking away things she likes.

I agree 100% that parenting classes should be MANDATORY. Hell, you can't drive a car without being approved, but you can parent a child without being informed?

I think it is very easy for a parent to hit when angry at the child for disobeying the rules. Not for "discipline".

That's the stigma that bothers me about this argument, that any parent who spanks a child is some ravaging, raging monster that slams their child against the wall repeatedly for spilling cheerios. There are tons of things in life that are good in moderation, and only dangerous when misused, spanking is probably one of them. To suggest that all "spankers" are violent beasts is like saying all gays are feminine. Simply untrue.

As to the comments about kids who aren't hit are spoiled brats, I don't believe it. I think the problem today is that parents are so busy with their careers/jobs, they don't have the time to parent properly. They feel guilt for being absent and buy the kids what they want to keep them happy.

Full-circle, we're in agreement again. I think few people take into account the role parents play in their lives. Now more than ever, kids are being raised by tv and video games and immature, uneducated peers. Parents spend so much time trying to make sure their kid has the latest Spring-3-G-Super-Mega-phone that they literally don't raise their own kids. They survive on keeping their kind in line by offering material things.

 

[ZOS23xy]

I disagree. Children are a clean slate when they are born. They are innocent and whatever a parent does to teach them, directly and/or indirectly, affects how they will end up.

Yes, the main thing is when they develop personalities and urges is where the effort to teach them right from wrong starts (and well before that). Failing this requiement will help you develop little monsters.

 

[deleted3782]

Its interesting to see this thread roar on...

I find it interesting that articles on the web pretty much mirror the discussion on this thread. Long-Term Effects of Spanking | Newsweek Health | Newsweek.com The bible condones spanking. The United Nations Committee on the Rights of the Child is against it. The American Academy of Pediatrics strongly opposes ever striking a child. The American College of Pediatricians states that disciplinary spanking by parents can be effective when properly used.

In the end, there are alternatives to spanking as many on this board (either as parents or children) are proof of. Some find striking a child an effective tool to making the child behave in a certain way, and thats a parenting style choice.

Aside from that observation, I don't see that the discussion is moving beyond the stalemate of "agree to disagree".

 

[marleyisalegend]

What irks me about the discussion is people implying that their way is the only way, and anyone else's should be illegal.

My hot dog has a first name
It's F-A-S-C-I-S-M

 

[B_Jennuine73]

What irks me about the discussion is people implying that their way is the only way, and anyone else's should be illegal.

My hot dog has a first name
It's F-A-S-C-I-S-M

Hey Marley, if you are going to disagree with me, at least learn to spell! :wink: Just kidding, you know I luvs you.

I did not say that all parents who spank their children are raving, raging maniacs. To imply I did is untrue.

I find it interesting how upset some people are getting by this thread. Some have gotten personal, calling people's ideas stupid and so on. I bet those ones were the ones who were spanked! JUST KIDDING! AHHH I'M GOING TO BE ATTACKED!!!

Seriously though, everyone has a different belief system and trying to combine those beliefs into a working society is the government's and society's job isn't it?

 

[marleyisalegend]

Hey Marley, if you are going to disagree with me, at least learn to spell! :wink: Just kidding, you know I luvs you.

I did not say that all parents who spank their children are raving, raging maniacs. To imply I did is untrue.

I find it interesting how upset some people are getting by this thread. Some have gotten personal, calling people's ideas stupid and so on. I bet those ones were the ones who were spanked! JUST KIDDING! AHHH I'M GOING TO BE ATTACKED!!!

Seriously though, everyone has a different belief system and trying to combine those beliefs into a working society is the government's and society's job isn't it?

I know, you know I love ya Jen, and I'm not against people who don't spank their kids, but I don't like the idea of spanking becoming illegal just cuz some people don't like it.

Actually, the laws as they are need to be reformed and made more strict as it is. Many kids who are getting abused go unreported for years until the kid dies or end up in the hospital. While we're posting about whether or not someone can pat their child on the tush, there are parents starving and torturing their kids. And getting away with it.

 

[DC_DEEP]

There is a difference between punishment and discipline. Spanking is not discipline, it is punishment. Just wanted to clear that up.

I know you give examples below, but can you define for me what is the difference between "discipline" and "punishment?"

As for whether I think spanking should be illegal, my answer is yes.

And why is that?

I think it is very easy for a parent to hit when angry at the child for disobeying the rules. Not for "discipline".

It's interesting that you use the word "hit" instead of "spank."

My Mom didn't dish out lots of spankings, but when she did, it was always preceded by a short discussion of why a spanking was about to occur, and it was never excessive. It did make for a memorable learning experience, and it certainly impressed upon that I perhaps should not do it again.

I think the problem today is that parents are so busy with their careers/jobs, they don't have the time to parent properly. They feel guilt for being absent and buy the kids what they want to keep them happy. When the time comes the child needs discipline, the parent doesn't want to spend one of their only two days off being the bad guy. They feel sorry for their kids so they don't discipline them.

So whose fault is it? Who should be responsible for the consequences of that kind of (non)parenting? Should the problem just be ignored because raising kids turns out to be harder than someone thought it would be?

My parents, both of them, worked hard, but they didn't shirk their responsibilities just because they were tired. I was in a close-knit, very loving household, but I was never under the impression that my parents were my buddies, at least not until I was out on my own.

Just a few years before Mom died, I asked her how she managed - work, raising 6 children, managing the household. She gave me a funny look, and said "what do you mean? I did what had to be done."

 

[marleyisalegend]

^Thankyou DC_Deep. Just like any argument, the worst cases is being represented as the majority or standard. There are parents out there who spank only when necessary, and follow it up with an explanation of why. There are countless examples of kids who were "spanked" into better people, clearly I'm one of em and DC is another. There are some monsters out there who might not have become monsters if the "rod" hadn't been spared.

 

[B_Jennuine73]

DC-"I know you give examples below, but can you define for me what is the difference between "discipline" and "punishment?"

Punishment is not the same as discipline. Punishment teaches CONTROL BY OTHERS. Discipline teaches SELF CONTROL. Discipline is guiding children, teaching them they can trust us to help them learn the difference between right and wrong, without feeling afraid of us.

Children need to learn how to think for themselves. All children make mistakes and misbehave. They are trying to find out how the world works. They need limits, to keep them safe and teach them what behaviour is allowed.

I say it should be illegal because spanking is harmful. Children have the right to be treated with respect, regardless of age. We need to treat children the way we want to be treated. Hitting people is wrong and children are people too.

I was asked for my opinions and these are it. I am in no way trying to tell anyone how to parent. I am nowhere near a perfect parent. I joke with a few friends that I should probably start saving up to pay for my daughter's therapy bills when she's an adult. I am trying to be the best parent I can be and for me, it does not involve hitting/ spanking. I am stating my beliefs and the reasons behind them. It's not my job to tell people how to parent, I guess it's the government's.

 

[B_Hickboy]

Anybody who says it should be illegal has never met my kids.

 

[Croix68]

Kids should be seen and not heard...

 

[mista geechee]

I disagree. Children are a clean slate when they are born. They are innocent and whatever a parent does to teach them, directly and/or indirectly, affects how they will end up.

To a degree. But you can teach and try to mold all you want , sooner or later genetics will take over. For example , you seem to be a pretty calm and very lucid , rational person so I would guess that those traits have been passed on through your genes to your child.

Me. My father was very stubborn and my mother is too but not like he was. I take after that.