Should the south secede from the U.S?

maxcok

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And I think, objectively, it's fair to say that you have more of a tendency to get personal on forum arguments, as is evident from some of your other posts I've come across and the fact that you readily call people names and insulting adjectives.
What you think is by definition subjective. Whether or not it's fair is also your subjective opinion. Don't they teach that in college anymore? I thought surely you would learn that in Soc/Psych 101, probably the first week.

The bulk of my postings are in my subjective opinion positive, sometimes even humorous I hope, as reflects my nature. But I do have strong opinions, and I am not a pushover. It would not surprise me if my more assertive postings are the ones that stick in people's minds, although those are the minority. I will stand up for myself and for others when I feel we have been treated wrongly or unfairly - that is also my nature. I am not proud of every word I have ever posted, but I will stand by my intent, and I have few regrets in that regard. Rarely, if ever, have I gone after anyone in a forceful manner who did not first come at me, or the people and positions I support, as is the case here. I have an admittedly low tolerance for intolerance, for babbling fools and ignorant, arrogant blowhards. As is the case here. I will not shrink from that, and I do not apologize for that.

Please appreciate the fact that thus far I have made a concerted effort to stay on the high road, in spite of finding your comments both astonishingly ignorant and personally insulting. It is interesting to me that you would bring this up, as it seems to be a distraction from the subject of the discussion. It also seems to be a deliberate attempt to discredit me. Please take note that most of the negative commentary in our exchange, and the most negative commentary by far has been your own words revealed and reflected back to you. As for name calling, it is an exaggeration to say I do it 'readily', though I will not shy away if I think it's appropriate in order to make a point or to get someone's attention. Believe me, I never do it out of anger or simply to denigrate. I have variously referred to you as a jackass, a tadpole, a smartass and a know-it-all, all of which I consider relatively benign, and in context wholly appropriate.

The truth though is that, after coming across some of your posts on other threads, our political views are not that far off.

The difference may be that mine come from my core values, rather than some Political Correctness Handbook as I have suggested. How else do you explain your readiness to cast insulting aspersions on me, my neighbors, and the entire region we call home? Furthermore, I note that you have as yet not retracted any of your ignorant statements. As far as I can tell you still persist in your condescending and dismissive attitudes. As a test, I suggest you express the same attitudes, replacing the word 'Southerners' with the name of any religious or ethnic group, and see how well that fits with your 'PC' sensibility.

Since you brought up the subject, I have read a number of your posts as well. In addition to what I said above, I gather that you are fairly intelligent, and whatever the reason, we appear to be in basic agreement on many issues. Which makes it all the more perplexing to me that you display such stunning insensitivity here. It is for that reason that I suspect the opinions you have expressed elsewhere may be adopted, and not so much based on a core set of values. It also appears to me that you tend to express yourself in a pseudointellectual manner, sometimes using words you are not entirely comfortable with. That is not a presumption, it is an informed personal observation, and therefore subjective.

And most importantly.... relax and cool down a little :wink:

I'm entirely relaxed, and completely cool, tadpole. But if you think I'm gonna let you off the hook you will be sorely disappointed. As I see it, you have three choices at this point: a.) You can be a man and sincerely and convincingly apologize for your astounding ignorance and insensitivity - and hopefully learn something that will lead you to this 'enlightenment' that you seem to think all Portlanders come by statistically, or by association, or from simply breathing the atmosphere, b.) You can sit down and shut up before you make an even bigger fool of yourself as I have suggested, or c.) You can keep coming back trying to twist your arguments and squirm out as you have been doing.

Based on what I've learned of you thus far, I have an inkling as to what your next move might be. You are very much ego involved here, and wanting to 'save face', whereas I have a larger mission in mind. You clearly view this as a contest of wills, whereas I view it as an opportunity to 'educate' and 'enlighten' (to borrow a few of your pet terms). You do not impress me as a person who takes criticism well, even when warranted, whereas I couldn't give a rat's ass what you or most people think of me.

Have a happy Valentine's.
Happy Presidents' Day. :usa2:

:)rolleyes:Hold on, I have to delete some of your quote, it's not letting me post this because it's too long)

Since you have decided to speak up, the one part I wish you hadn't deleted was this:
I lived on the West Coast for 20 years. I'm curious to know how long you lived in the South before you came to such a profound understanding. But please don't break your silence to tell me.
Now that you have spoken, I would like an answer to that question.

 
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gymfresh

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As the OP posed it, it was not whether the rest of the country wants to ditch the South. It sounded like whether a set of southern states, out of frustration with the direction the see the country going, or whatever, may want to secede for their own benefit.

The obvious answer is that most states are more purple than they are red or blue, so politics alone would not appear to be a rational basis to propose secession. The country has steadily moved more toward cohesion since the Civil War, and media, technology, transportation and lots of other factors are cementing this. Maybe some areas chafe at national laws, but many areas of concern are better served by consistent federal oversight, like food and drug standards and interstate shipping regulations.

No one state or area of the country has a distinct advantage in terms of brainpower or productivity or original thinking. For example, some of the finest, most renowned medical research and clinical centers are in Rochester, MN, Boston, MA, Birmingham, AL and San Francisco, CA. All world-class.

And yes, we Portlanders are enlightened and more educated than you guys down in the South.

This was a particularly unhelpful, specific comment. As if there was a monopoly on brains or instruction in any corner of this country! I'd compare Duke U., Vanderbilt U., UVa, William & Mary, Rice U., UT Austin or UNC-CH favorably to anything in the NW.

Each area of the country has its strengths and decided (earned or unearned) drawbacks. To turn the tables for a moment, I'd remind you that there's still quite a few Americans who view the entire NW area from Eureka to Bellingham as one big, scary episode of Twin Peaks full of twitchy, quirky treehuggers rather deficient in social skills and wanting for culture. I've spent a fair amount of time all through there, though, and can say it's not entirely true.

The point is that no economic or political issue has swelled to the point that any region of the US would/should seriously consider going its own way. There are tensions, but that's not the same as saying we lack common ground.

What I do have an issue with is whether our form of government suits our current size and complexity as a nation. More on that in another thread.