Should we move on from the term "race"?

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Drifterwood, Jan 9, 2010.

  1. Drifterwood

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    There's an interestong thread in the women's section about black women dating white men, and reading it as a European, I am finding the use of the term "race" confusing.

    I know there are some smart biologists and maybe even anthropologists on the site, so this isn't a political correctness question, it is scientific correctness question.

    As someone who is amateurishly interested in genetics, my view is that it is a fairly meaningless term and certainly incorrectly applied. I have a problem with its blanket use not only because the genetic differences are miniscule when compared to the similarities, but also because you would still call someone like CBabe from the black race when that is the minority of her genetic inheritance. This suggests that in some countries it has become a social tool of disintegration and is therefore racist.
     
    #1 Drifterwood, Jan 9, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2010
  2. Mem

    Mem
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    People are getting to PC about words.

    How can we discuss Nascar without the word race?

    maybe we should get rid of the term "Human race"

    If you get rid of the word race, you have to get rid of the word racist too.
     
  3. Drifterwood

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    But if you show that it is meaningless and wrong then you could say the same about racists.

    BTW, what is Nascar?
     
  4. Mem

    Mem
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    Car racing. NASCAR.COM - News, Schedule, Drivers, Tracks, Fantasy & Video from NASCAR

    One of the largest sporting events. I am not into it and have never watched a race. I understand that a single race can have 100,00 spectators at the event.

    There are racist people. If you get rid of the word racist they do not cease to exist.
     
  5. Drifterwood

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    Thanks - I'm backing this guy NASCAR.COM : drivers : Ron Hornaday

    They will exist, but at some stage they may come to see that their views are based on something that is a misconception of 19thC science/culture. And if we all continue to use it inappropriately we keep it in our culture.
     
  6. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    think that's what he aiming for -- get rid of the concept, get rid of the attitudes and values associated with the concept
     
  7. Mem

    Mem
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    It's a great concept. It won't happen anytime soon.
     
  8. nudeyorker

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    I don't think that most people are ready to embrace the qualities that we all share. I think as a rule many cling to their individual or collective differences as a security blanket.
     
  9. D_Inglethorp Rumpshow

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    ^This
     
  10. Smooth88

    Smooth88 New Member

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    Interesting concept from one of my favorite Video Games Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn.

    As people we all have wants and needs. And we take, struggle, harm, kill, steal, compete to quench those needs and desires. Because of this hate and strife is born.

    Throughout history we've always tried to separate ourselves. Mostly to try and create a sense of superiority.
     
  11. B_dxjnorto

    B_dxjnorto New Member

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    Get rid of Nascar and race.
     
  12. ubered

    ubered New Member

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    Interesting thread Drifter... In a word, Yes.

    I'm certainly no scientist, but I've also heard that the genetic variations within "races" are as significant as those between them, which undermines completely the idea of hermetic racial categories. But ideas don't have to coherent to be powerful - it seems racial categories are still "common sense" to most of us.

    So how to talk about race and deal with the very real imact it has on life chances without reifying it as a category? Part of the soultion was to talk about a more polite and ethnicity and ethinic identity or more recently even "cultural difference".

    In my view, there is definitely a new kind of racism which isn't so visible. Firstly, it claims that the extent of racism is exaggerated. Secondly, it defines groups not as biological types but as homogenous "cultural communities". Thirdly, it denies that hostility to other groups is necessarily discriminatory and instead talks about "cultural incompatibility". It bases its arguments on polite "difference" rather than outright superiority. Statements of discrimination are now coded as cultural difference. Think how no one bats and eyelid when people say, "Muslims are...".

    Paul Gilroy isn't a scientist either, but he is a kickass writer (There Ain't No Black in the Union Jack):

    "Creativeand negative thinking is needed to generate more complex and challenging narratives which can repudiate simple racial truthsand be faithful to everyday metropolitan life by reducing difference to a liberating ordinary-ness. From this angle, race is nothing special, a virtual reality given meaning only by the fact that racism endures."
     
  13. B_dxjnorto

    B_dxjnorto New Member

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    Anybody who has been to a busy public venue in a big city recently knows there is no more such compartmentalization as "race." Sure, there's still some old "white" people like me [Heinz 57 U.S. mongrel dog of European extraction] but most people are now mixed. And I say we are better for it. Because now we can quit talking about this shite. And just start talking about people already.
     
  14. earllogjam

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    The term "race" is a social construct to categorize people who physically look similar into group - it's a judgement call. A more objective categorization would be to divide people into their ethnicity or cultural differences.

    I mean do Norweigians really look like North Africans? They are considered the same race however, pretty arbitrary where that line is drawn.
     
  15. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    we prefer the pre-Columbian North American concept of "race"

    if one was born a Cherokee, but then dressed, spoke, and acted as a Sioux, then one was a Sioux

    when we think of groups, we evaluate or consider them in terms of their shared operative matrix of values and perceptions

    that seems imminently legitimate and valid to me
     
  16. ubered

    ubered New Member

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    No way! Cultural difference divisions are just another set of categorisations that are equally as arbitrary as "race". We've gone from thinking races were sealed, homogenous, real categories to thinking of cultures in the same way. Let's not make the same mistake again....
     
  17. Mark_UK

    Mark_UK New Member

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    If you start going down the road of stopping people from using words to describe the real world then you end up with situations like the one I read about in my local paper where people where not allowed to ask for black or white coffee at a council meeting because it was 'racist'.
    You have to ask the political correctness advocates what exactly they are affraid of when they try to stop people from using words which have been in use for thousands of years.
     
  18. Drifterwood

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    D'uh

    You want milk or not?

    And Lol, white coffee wouldn't have much coffee in it, and black has no milk :eek: - QEFD.

    This isn't about PC, it's about BS.

    PS, the "race" BS is the antithesis of the coffee BS - one drop of milk and it is white, one drop of black.........:rolleyes:

    It's culture.
     
    #18 Drifterwood, Jan 9, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2010
  19. B_dxjnorto

    B_dxjnorto New Member

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    One thing I find strange and backward is all the statistics or demographic information that is collected. In college textbooks I've used recently it would say race is a construct. Race is more about culture or nationality than skin color. But then throughout the book they give statistics divided by "racial" categories. Well if there's really no race, then why is that there?
    Same with the government. How are we going to move beyond "race" if every document you fill out has check boxes for the same?

    I think it will wash out on its own after a few generations. Whenever things are changing there's always corresponding factors working against changes. Kind of like Newton's law: equal and opposite reaction even to needed and desirable changes.
     
  20. ubered

    ubered New Member

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    QEFD...

    Queen Elizabeth Fund for the Disabled? :confused:
     
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