Should we move on from the term "race"?

[B_dxjnorto]

I'll have another crack at it. I worked with a guy from Nigeria last year and we became friends. He is a racist person. Let me see if I can explain it. Nigeria is a heavily splintered nation. There's a couple rivers that come together there and become the Niger river (I'll wager). Everything north of these two rivers is Moslem lands and the intercoastal Nigerians pretty much stay out of there or know how to "pass" if they travel there; wearing long garments, head dress and such.

That northern area of Nigeria borders the Sahel, which is desert with way too many people living in it. There was an article a year or two ago in National Geographic about how climate is changing there, and has always been changing and marginalizing different sections that people depend on for growing crops. As a side note, they have begun planting things that hold the soil down as they have found that the seasonal winds bring moisture in to grow plants if they can keep the soil consolidated.

The reason I say my friend is racist is because he can distinguish (or believes he can) among the different tribes or "races" by characteristics that most could not discern. Accents, dialects, a nose shape or facial characterists, mannerisms, whatever. And he feels perfectly confident in his discernment and his judgment. This one does this, this one does this, so on. You know how it goes. At least the way he related it to me, no amount of logic would shake his confidence in the way things are and each group is treated according to what they justly deserve. And he made it obvious he didn't want to discuss it any further.... no one likes to be disabused of their long held beliefs.

And there it lays. Surprised me though.

 

[helgaleena]

Do you know what is giving me a mental wedgie just now, galactus? It's trying to discern the difference between a person's DNA and their external appearance. I went to a 'physical anthropology' list and learned there that many believe that even siblings can be of different races! It's all due to how mixing among humans takes place, sort of like litters of kittens that come out in several colors...

 

[Drifterwood]

There seems to be a lot of confusion about the differences between, tribes, nations, races, cultures, ethnicities and genetics.

 

[helgaleena]

Hard to move on when so confused...:laola:

 

[B_Nick4444]

As someone who is amateurishly interested in genetics, my view is that it is a fairly meaningless term and certainly incorrectly applied. I have a problem with its blanket use not only because the genetic differences are miniscule when compared to the similarities, but also because you would still call someone like CBabe from the black race when that is the minority of her genetic inheritance.

in a word, no

racial differences are significant and real:

An experimental drug had no effect in general in the first major test of a vaccine to prevent AIDS. But the news was not all bad. The researchers say the product Aidsvax seemed to show promise in blacks and Asians.

The vaccine protected Asians and people of mixed race almost as well. But the study found no effect on whites including Hispanics.

Results of First Major AIDS Vaccine Test / Evidence of Four-Winged Dinosaur Found in China (VOA Special English 2003-03-11)

 

[Drifterwood]

Hard to move on when so confused...:laola:

I am also confused. But I think that a lot of confusion comes when people say race but actually mean something different.

in a word, no

racial differences are significant and real:

An experimental drug had no effect in general in the first major test of a vaccine to prevent AIDS. But the news was not all bad. The researchers say the product Aidsvax seemed to show promise in blacks and Asians.

The vaccine protected Asians and people of mixed race almost as well. But the study found no effect on whites including Hispanics.

Results of First Major AIDS Vaccine Test / Evidence of Four-Winged Dinosaur Found in China (VOA Special English 2003-03-11)

This is because of the small (but significant) differences in our genetics. There is no reason why someone you would call black, should not have the same Y chromosome as me, someone you would call white. By your example, you would find blacks who didn't respond and whites who did. Would you change your designation on their race because of this? I don't think so, because the term rce is not used correctly, it is a convenient blanket to discriminate.

 

[helgaleena]

Drifter, what do you think of these terms like, Baltid, Uralid, Mediterranean, Alpine, Atlantid ? Some are used to describe non Caucasian groups and some are not. I am straining my eyes looking at the illustrations and getting quite mixed up. You can say a person's skull is shaped like a mixture of one of them or another and then talk about how much 'blondism' they are exhibiting. :eyeroll:

 

[B_dxjnorto]

Since I'm from the states, I grew up thinking that "racial" dichotomy exists between "white" and "black." From my experience with my Nigerian friend I learned that the problem is a lot more widespread than I had perceived. People can discriminate based on differences that I would not be able to discern.

 

[Drifterwood]

Drifter, what do you think of these terms like, Baltid, Uralid, Mediterranean, Alpine, Atlantid ? Some are used to describe non Caucasian groups and some are not. I am straining my eyes looking at the illustrations and getting quite mixed up. You can say a person's skull is shaped like a mixture of one of them or another and then talk about how much 'blondism' they are exhibiting. :eyeroll:

Well, I think we should do the honest thing and take a DNA sample to help the genome project. You will find that we all have an incredible journey in common. Then you will find that we have a common ancestry. Then you may find that we have a lot more in common than we don't. You then make choices about how you present yourself and behave with everyone else.

 

[NCbear]

Long ago I grew frustrated with the vagueness of the term race. I remember having a roommate in college who was a self-described racist. He liked Europeans and hated Africans. One night I asked him about his perceptions of cultural groups ringing the Mediterranean, from Italy to Egypt and then into Sub-Saharan Africa. He was tripped-up in doing so in that his concepts weren't very useful in shades of gray...he could only operate within his ideals of "blacks versus whites".

I've removed the word "race" from my vocabulary and replaced it with "ethnicity". It's a much richer word, opens up further dialog and opportunities for elaboration.

Another word I have removed from my own use is "class". I dislike it as much as the word "race". It's been replaced with "income". Instead of "low-class", someone is "low-income". I know there is somewhat of a difference but for my line of work it does the job very well. Fortunately I don't have to write about Britney Spears much.

"Ethnicity" works better than "race" for me--in large part because "race" is a racist concept promulgated by racist colonialist Europeans in the nineteenth century--but "class" is a term I'll keep using because it's not synonymous with "income."

"Class" means a whole lot of things: the way you treat others, the intellectual background you may or may not have, the level of sophistication of your interactions with others, your openness to new and different kinds of people, your understanding of or exposure to art and design, etc. A lot of "class," for me, is a result of having learned a great deal about yourself and other people.

"Income" is just figures on a computer screen or pieces of green paper or squares of plastic with magnetic strips embedded in them. Dollars, or pesos, or lira, don't confer class.

That said, having less income restricts your ability to make choices about so many things. But there are so many free opportunities in most Western societies.

I think my major problem with the conflation of "income" and "class" is that in this country, the two are conflated with "race" as well.

/hijack

NCbear (who doesn't assume that most poor people are nonwhite--and who doesn't assume that most rich people have class )

 

[naughty]

"Ethnicity" works better than "race" for me--in large part because "race" is a racist concept promulgated by racist colonialist Europeans in the nineteenth century--but "class" is a term I'll keep using because it's not synonymous with "income."

"Class" means a whole lot of things: the way you treat others, the intellectual background you may or may not have, the level of sophistication of your interactions with others, your openness to new and different kinds of people, your understanding of or exposure to art and design, etc. A lot of "class," for me, is a result of having learned a great deal about yourself and other people.

"Income" is just figures on a computer screen or pieces of green paper or squares of plastic with magnetic strips embedded in them. Dollars, or pesos, or lira, don't confer class.

That said, having less income restricts your ability to make choices about so many things. But there are so many free opportunities in most Western societies.

I think my major problem with the conflation of "income" and "class" is that in this country, the two are conflated with "race" as well.

/hijack

NCbear (who doesn't assume that most poor people are nonwhite--and who doesn't assume that most rich people have class )

NC,

Those were some solid points you just made in a nice down to earth manner. Thanks.

 

[B_Nick4444]

This is because of the small (but significant) differences in our genetics. There is no reason why someone you would call black, should not have the same Y chromosome as me, someone you would call white. By your example, you would find blacks who didn't respond and whites who did. Would you change your designation on their race because of this? I don't think so, because the term rce is not used correctly, it is a convenient blanket to discriminate.

precisely what I was hoping would be stated at some point -- the entirety of the issue, like so many others raised on this board, is a conceptual can of worms, and the initial starting point should always be a clarification of concepts and ideas