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Should we perhaps talk about this?

D_Tim McGnaw

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OK so I was pretty vocally opposed to the split of Adult websites, and I made the point at the time that splitting that forum would set a precedent which might end with the entire site becoming segregated by sexuality.

This thread - http://www.lpsg.org/170506-petition-split-stories-hetero-gay.html

- rather suggests that I may have been correct in suspecting that the split of Adult Websites might encourage segregationist tendencies. I understand that a practical case might be made for a variety of splits, and I understand that many of those who support these splits will not be outright homophobes, but I really cannot believe that anyone could be naive enough to think that no part, if not a large part of the support for these kinds of separations is homophobic.

Whatever you think of my opinion on things, is it worth having a discussion about this issue, and is it worth giving the members a steer as to future policy on this kind of thing so that those of us who enjoy the open and mixed environment this site provides can escape creeping ghettoisation and try and find somewhere which doesn't simply replicate the prejudices, discrimination and segregated socialisation of every day life in the real world ?
 
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Pecker

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The board is huge. Topics which have been mostly unchanged for years are becoming bloated. It makes sense for Rob_E to do some tweaking periodically to neaten things up, including the separation of topics by sexual preference if for no other reason than to make it easier to find them.

With growth comes change. I think this is a good change.
 

D_Tim McGnaw

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So is that an indication of future policy then? This is Rob's site so he's entitled to do as he wishes with it, I'm just wondering if it ought to be absolutely clear to members where this site is heading so they can decide if it's for them or not.
 

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So is that an indication of future policy then? This is Rob's site so he's entitled to do as he wishes with it, I'm just wondering if it ought to be absolutely clear to members where this site is heading so they can decide if it's for them or not.

Where its heading? That is stricly your opinion. OK, lets entertain your theory. Show proof that the splitting of the Adults site section has divided up the members here in a nagative way that has destroyed this site.

There are certain topics that are open to all sexuality. But stuff like the Adults sites and the fictitious stories? That is like going to a buffet and picking out WHAT YOU WANT. What if the restaurant manager told you, "No, you have to separate the lettice from the roman lettuce to create the salad you want because its all mixed in." ?

Its a convinience thing to help people get to the things they prefer. You want a better question? What the hell does a Fictitious Stories section and a Adult site section have to do with a Large Penis Support Group? You could throw those out and this site would still be good. But having them makes it better.

So for the other sections, like the Sex with a Large penis, No, its stupid to split those because there is a lot of cross over that everyone can benifit from. And even then, people still pick what they want to read and comment on. We, as, men have penises and have the same issues with our penises regardless of sexuality.

But smut, which is what the adult sites and fictitious stories are about? That is for something way more superficial. I dont like to pick through them like the salad example looking for things I want. I was doing it anyway, but this "separation" makes it better.

So again, if you can create a case and prove that separating two superficial sections on this site will ultimately destroy it, then I am all ears and will be the first to sign YOUR petition for your cause.
 

D_Tim McGnaw

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Where its heading? That is stricly your opinion. OK, lets entertain your theory. Show proof that the splitting of the Adults site section has divided up the members here in a nagative way that has destroyed this site.

There are certain topics that are open to all sexuality. But stuff like the Adults sites and the fictitious stories? That is like going to a buffet and picking out WHAT YOU WANT. What if the restaurant manager told you, "No, you have to separate the lettice from the roman lettuce to create the salad you want because its all mixed in." ?

Its a convinience thing to help people get to the things they prefer. You want a better question? What the hell does a Fictitious Stories section and a Adult site section have to do with a Large Penis Support Group? You could throw those out and this site would still be good. But having them makes it better.

So for the other sections, like the Sex with a Large penis, No, its stupid to split those because there is a lot of cross over that everyone can benifit from. And even then, people still pick what they want to read and comment on. We, as, men have penises and have the same issues with our penises regardless of sexuality.

But smut, which is what the adult sites and fictitious stories are about? That is for something way more superficial. I dont like to pick through them like the salad example looking for things I want. I was doing it anyway, but this "separation" makes it better.

So again, if you can create a case and prove that separating two superficial sections on this site will ultimately destroy it, then I am all ears and will be the first to sign YOUR petition for your cause.


I put my position in the OP, you don't find it convincing, fine, I don't want to argue with you, especially since your mind seems pretty made up to me.

My point is that this seems to be creeping, and I don't see that just because you happen to think it would be stupid to split the rest of the sight that there wont be thousands of other who would jump at the opportunity not to have to deal with people they find distasteful. I think indulging segregationism at all will only encourage it, and frankly the argument you've made about Adult Websites and Fictitious Stories could just as easily be made to justify splitting the rest of the sight.

You don't see that, that's fine. It would simply be nice to know if what we should expect is all.
 

D_Tim McGnaw

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What I'm trying to ask is if this is a policy that only the wank fodder forums should be split up and the rest remain mixed or whether as yet there is any policy at all and this is an evolving response to member activism. What I asking is what should we expect?
 

Wish-4-8

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Your title says, "should we talk about this?"

That is exactly what I am trying to do. The last line in my rant leaves my mind open to change. If ALL you have to offer is your OP, then I am not convinced. I really was hoping you could at least give me something more to think about.

The part that I did leave out was that I am slightly offend that you would assume I am a homophobe because I am in favor of members having easier access to the things they like on this site. Especially something as superficial as the sections mentioned.

It looks like YOUR mind is already made up and the sad part is that you cant even really explain why.
 

Wish-4-8

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OK, your second post came before I could read it.

I understand a little more. I think we all are on the same page. Wank fodder split, everything else, no.

See, we really are more alike. :)
 

D_Tim McGnaw

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Your title says, "should we talk about this?"

That is exactly what I am trying to do. The last line in my rant leaves my mind open to change. If ALL you have to offer is your OP, then I am not convinced. I really was hoping you could at least give me something more to think about.

The part that I did leave out was that I am slightly offend that you would assume I am a homophobe because I am in favor of members having easier access to the things they like on this site. Especially something as superficial as the sections mentioned.

It looks like YOUR mind is already made up and the sad part is that you cant even really explain why.



Please get out of those stocks you just put yourself in. When did I call you a homophobe? No where, and I stressed that there would be many who simply thought these splits practical and who would not be homophobes.

I'm merely making the point that some portion of those who support these splits are homophobes, not all of those who support these splits.

Now if you want to get in to this business of calling gay people bigots for daring to call anyone else at all a homophobe then I think you and I have no more to discuss.
 
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D_Tim McGnaw

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OK, your second post came before I could read it.

I understand a little more. I think we all are on the same page. Wank fodder split, everything else, no.

See, we really are more alike. :)


OK well ditto I was posting my last as you were posting this. :smile:
 

Wish-4-8

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Yeah, lets take a breather. It seems we are overlapping each other. We are typing too fast. LOL

Look, I have a lot of respect for you and enjoy your posts. I commented that I find you to be an intelligent person on the original petition post where I reposted this.

So, no harm done. We are all just talking... LOL
 

D_Tim McGnaw

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Yeah, lets take a breather. It seems we are overlapping each other. We are typing too fast. LOL

Look, I have a lot of respect for you and enjoy your posts. I commented that I find you to be an intelligent person on the original petition post where I reposted this.

So, no harm done. We are all just talking... LOL


I must point out that, yes, I accept an argument which says the wank fodder forums should be split up for practical reasons, I don't agree with it but I accept it's logic, and I accept that the site owner must make practical improvements from time to time.

What worries me is that without a clear indication of site policy on this subject that we'll just see petition after petition being caved in to until eventually the site is totally segregated.

What I'm suggesting is needful is some clear indication of site policy, for all member's sake, so that we all know where we stand.
 

Wish-4-8

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I must point out that, yes, I accept an argument which says the wank fodder forums should be split up for practical reasons, I don't agree with it but I accept it's logic, and I accept that the site owner must make practical improvements from time to time.

What worries me is that without a clear indication of site policy on this subject that we'll just see petition after petition being caved in to until eventually the site is totally segregated.

What I'm suggesting is needful is some clear indication of site policy, for all member's sake, so that we all know where we stand.

Oh, I agree. A clear policy should be stated. But at the same time, I trust the admins here. They do a fine job monitoring this site. I have to believe that they really try to make this place as open minded and a place for tolerance as much as possible.

Sometimes the lines are not clear and that is why we are discussing them. I also believe that the admins do appreciate member feedback to make this the best site possible. I think we all want the same end goal. Its the getting there that is up for discussion.
 

D_Tim McGnaw

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Oh, I agree. A clear policy should be stated. But at the same time, I trust the admins here. They do a fine job monitoring this site. I have to believe that they really try to make this place as open minded and a place for tolerance as much as possible.

Sometimes the lines are not clear and that is why we are discussing them. I also believe that the admins do appreciate member feedback to make this the best site possible. I think we all want the same end goal. Its the getting there that is up for discussion.


I don't agree we all want the same end goal. I think there are probably large numbers of members who don't want the same things you or I seem to want. I certainly don't think they form a majority of the members of the site but I do think they will sign petitions in large enough numbers to make it seem as though they must be heard even if the majority of members are silenced in the process.
 

Wish-4-8

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Well, it was probably wrong for me to make a generalization like that. I forget that even jerks have a right to be here as long as they follow the TOS.

And those petitions are pointless from the perspective that this isnt a democracy here. Like it or not, we are all still guests here and this is Rob's party. He calls the shots. But like I said, I like to think that he tries to be as fair as he could.
 

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...that we'll just see petition after petition being caved in to until eventually the site is totally segregated.
Seriously, the seperation of the adult subforum had huge support due to different reasons which won't be reasons for seperating anything else. Maybe someday a moron will come up with a petition to split up Sex with a large Penis or whatever. But I ensure you, there will be almost no support. Maybe some trolls but no supporty of the long year and well trusted members.


Though seperation of the Women's Issues in straight women and gay women would be fun :biggrin1:
 

D_Tim McGnaw

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Seriously, the seperation of the adult subforum had huge support due to different reasons which won't be reasons for seperating anything else. Maybe someday a moron will come up with a petition to split up Sex with a large Penis or whatever. But I ensure you, there will be almost no support. Maybe some trolls but no supporty of the long year and well trusted members.


Though seperation of the Women's Issues in straight women and gay women would be fun :biggrin1:


I think it would simply be nice to know this was a site policy and not just a surmise though no?
 

Kotchanski

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I think it would simply be nice to know this was a site policy and not just a surmise though no?

Simple answer for you: We can't give you the site policy because there isn't one.

People in general will always complain and always think their way of doing things is better than how things are now. There may come a point where the owner of the site says "actually, you kinda have a point" and makes a small change here and there to see if it works, but there's just as much chance that he won't.

I can assure you of one thing though, changes don't come about just because a handful of people demand them, nor will they in the future.
 

D_Tim McGnaw

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Simple answer for you: We can't give you the site policy because there isn't one.

People in general will always complain and always think their way of doing things is better than how things are now. There may come a point where the owner of the site says "actually, you kinda have a point" and makes a small change here and there to see if it works, but there's just as much chance that he won't.

I can assure you of one thing though, changes don't come about just because a handful of people demand them, nor will they in the future.


So my earlier characterisation that "there is [no] policy at all and this is an evolving response to member activism" is accurate then? Full segregation of the site remains a possibility so long as more than "a handful" of members can make a convincing case for it?

To be honest that's depressing, especially since "a handful" is a distinctly malleable term. Essentially you're saying so long as any large enough ("enough" being an unspecified distinction) members campaign loudly enough they might well be listened to, regardless of the feelings of smaller groups of members.


Frankly without a site policy or ethos, we can expect that if more than a handful of members decide that ignoring gay threads in Sex with a Large Penis, or Healthy Penis, or any other forum is deeply offensive or upsetting or just too damn inconvenient and unwieldy that their demands for separation will be viewed "having a point".
 

Kotchanski

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Yes that's right, the site owner plans on going against everything this site has ever stood for just because he's seen fit to make a singular change for the benefit of the majority of members :rolleyes:

This site is NOT about segregation and it never will be. You clearly have some great issue that others can't quite understand, and I'll happily accept that as a failing on my part.

Putting porn into categories is vastly different to complete segregation, and not something many if any people (including the owner) would support.

Really, I think you're letting your imagination run a little wild here.
 
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D_Tim McGnaw

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Yes that's right, the site owner plans on going against everything this site has ever stood for just because he's seen fit to make a singular change for the benefit of the majority of members :rolleyes:

This site is NOT about segregation and it never will be. You clearly have some great issue that others can't quite understand, and I'll happily accept that as a failing on my part.

Putting porn into categories is vastly different to complete segregation, and not something many if any people (including the owner) would support.

Really, I think you're letting your imagine run a little wild here.



Fine, be dismissive if you want :rolleyes: I don't suggest that the splitting of Adult Websites indicates that the site owner wants to segregate the entire site, where did I say that?


You know what? I wrote out a response just now, but since you seem to want to shut me up and right me off as a ranting delusional I've deleted it and I'll just shut up

Suffice it to say your brusque assurances about what you think "many" people would support are not particularly comforting.

Thanks for a fair hearing.
 

Kotchanski

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Fine, be dismissive if you want :rolleyes: I don't suggest that the splitting of Adult Websites indicates that the site owner wants to segregate the entire site, where did I say that?


You know what? I wrote out a response just now, but since you seem to want to shut me up and right me off as a ranting delusional I've deleted it and I'll just shut up

Suffice it to say your brusque assurances about what you think "many" people would support are not particularly comforting.

Thanks for a fair hearing.

I'm more than happy to give you a fair hearing, but you've not exactly been fair in responding to anything said over these 2 threads have you?

You see things as being a certain way, others see them differently, but regardless of what anyone says, you'll keep smacking your head against that wall until you either hear the answers you want, or you pass out.

I'm telling you now, I won't support segregation of anything other than the porn on the site, I know for a fact several others on the mod team won't either, and having spoken to the owner myself, I'm pretty bloody sure he doesn't want the site going in that direction either.

If a member comes here looking for porn, they most probably feel horny and want a wank, they're looking for something a little quicker than going out and buying someone a meal, taking them to a movie and listening to their life story, so having it grouped nicely will probably help in that respect.

If a member comes here with a question about their relationship, sexuality issues, a weird purple and green growth on their penis, having a wide variety of readings and responders is going to benefit them.

Now I'm just a dumb girl, but if I can work out the above, I'm sure the owner can too.
 

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Fine, be dismissive if you want :rolleyes: I don't suggest that the splitting of Adult Websites indicates that the site owner wants to segregate the entire site, where did I say that?

Your very first post after creating the thread actually skips jollily around that inference....
 

D_Tim McGnaw

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I'm more than happy to give you a fair hearing, but you've not exactly been fair in responding to anything said over these 2 threads have you?

You see things as being a certain way, others see them differently, but regardless of what anyone says, you'll keep smacking your head against that wall until you either hear the answers you want, or you pass out.

I'm telling you now, I won't support segregation of anything other than the porn on the site, I know for a fact several others on the mod team won't either, and having spoken to the owner myself, I'm pretty bloody sure he doesn't want the site going in that direction either.

If a member comes here looking for porn, they most probably feel horny and want a wank, they're looking for something a little quicker than going out and buying someone a meal, taking them to a movie and listening to their life story, so having it grouped nicely will probably help in that respect.

If a member comes here with a question about their relationship, sexuality issues, a weird purple and green growth on their penis, having a wide variety of readings and responders is going to benefit them.

Now I'm just a dumb girl, but if I can work out the above, I'm sure the owner can too.



As I've said, I can perfectly understand the logic of the porn split.

But what is so awful about me asking for a discussion regarding the underlined portion of your above post ? It's odd that we agree about that portion of what you've said but you seem to dislike me asking you to express that agreement.


Oh and for the record which two threads are you accusing me of being unfair in? And how have I been unfair exactly?
 

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That was a genuine question, I wasn't inferring anything, Pecker's post was ambiguous, I simply requested a clarification.

I said your first post, your reply to Pecker was obviously your second.

And i did'nt say you did infer hence the 'skips jollily around' part of what i said.
 

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You're seeming (I'm not saying you are being) like the child every parent hopes will never end up coming to their kids party because no matter what is said, even if it's complete agreement, they'll still sit in the corner stamping their feet.

What worries me is that without a clear indication of site policy on this subject that we'll just see petition after petition being caved in to until eventually the site is totally segregated.

This is my point, this is what's driving me up the damn wall... You're taking one move, which you yourself say you can understand though you disagree with it, and turning this into something which reads very much like the owner is going to be giving in to any and all cries for change regardless of who moronically whinny they are.

I called for several things to be changed when I joined the mod team some 3 or so years ago, and I had a LOT of support for some of those changes... I've seen maybe 3 of them happen, and it's taken until the last 6ish months.

I'd love to be able to sit here and tell you "No, we aren't going to be making any more separations within the site" or "Yes, we'll make some at some point, but only to improve the overall experience, not to protect the whining "x"s from the evil "y"s" but the honest truth is, that mods/admin don't make these calls, the owner does. I can tell you that I agree that separations of additional parts of the site would be a terrible thing in my opinion, and that I'd argue against them should they happen, and I can tell you that the owner has made his feelings clear that this site is to be all inclusive and all welcoming (which I take to mean we aren't going to be drawing lines down the monitor keeping the various groups away from each other lol)

I'm not pissed that you've asked the question, I'm pissed that no matter how people try to explain, or what's said, you don't seem to be happy with it and want to keep on pushing for something we simply don't know how to give you.
 

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I said your first post, your reply to Pecker was obviously your second.

And i did'nt say you did infer hence the 'skips jollily around' part of what i said.


You said my very first post after I'd created the thread, I'm sorry I thought you meant my second post, since my first post was what created the thread.

Again though, asking for clarification, which is what my OP does, was not intended to imply or infer anything. But if that's how you see it then fine.
 

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Again though, asking for clarification, which is what my OP does, was not intended to imply or infer anything. But if that's how you see it then fine.

Your OP stated your concerns, your concerns were pretty much out of touch with the site ethic (unwritten as it may be). You should of i would have thought be satissfied with the response from members and admin alike but yet here you are seemingly dissatisfied. If you are not worried about segregation of the site then what ARE you concerned with?
 

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You're seeming (I'm not saying you are being) like the child every parent hopes will never end up coming to their kids party because no matter what is said, even if it's complete agreement, they'll still sit in the corner stamping their feet.



This is my point, this is what's driving me up the damn wall... You're taking one move, which you yourself say you can understand though you disagree with it, and turning this into something which reads very much like the owner is going to be giving in to any and all cries for change regardless of who moronically whinny they are.

I called for several things to be changed when I joined the mod team some 3 or so years ago, and I had a LOT of support for some of those changes... I've seen maybe 3 of them happen, and it's taken until the last 6ish months.

I'd love to be able to sit here and tell you "No, we aren't going to be making any more separations within the site" or "Yes, we'll make some at some point, but only to improve the overall experience, not to protect the whining "x"s from the evil "y"s" but the honest truth is, that mods/admin don't make these calls, the owner does. I can tell you that I agree that separations of additional parts of the site would be a terrible thing in my opinion, and that I'd argue against them should they happen, and I can tell you that the owner has made his feelings clear that this site is to be all inclusive and all welcoming (which I take to mean we aren't going to be drawing lines down the monitor keeping the various groups away from each other lol)

I'm not pissed that you've asked the question, I'm pissed that no matter how people try to explain, or what's said, you don't seem to be happy with it and want to keep on pushing for something we simply don't know how to give you.



Again with the characterisations. I do appreciate what you've said, and I am encouraged by it. Thanks.

Until you made your own position clear, no admin or mod had clearly explained their feelings or their perceptions of the site owners feelings on this issue. If I persisted it was because each response to my questions seemed to make things less clear rather than more clear, until now that is.

Again sorry if I've ruffled feathers or pissed people off and I do appreciate you guys taking some time to address what I've been ranting on about (no doubt in an extremely annoying fashion, :redface:).