Sigh, looks like I might be heading towards FWD for the next car :(

B_NineInchCock_160IQ

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It seats 4 and still has room for their stuff. Ever see 4 people in a Viper?

Okay I had to comment on this.

One of the reasons I HATE Mustangs is for this reason. A real sports car does not have 4 seats in it. A real sports car doesn't need a lot of trunk space. You're adding a lot of extra weight and clunkiness for very little functionality. I've fit 3 people into my Viper before... and even though I had two people sitting in one bucket seat... it was about equal to the comfort you'd have riding in the "back seat" of my dad's Mustang. More like a back shelf. Those seats look like they were designed for quadruple amputees. No room at all. Why even put them in there? Purely as a selling point, that's why.

"Look, we have 4 seats. Sporty and practical, too! :rolleyes: Plus we've used sub-par materials, all the air-vents on the body are fake and just there for aesthetics, the engine is puny unless you spring for the upgraded one... all so we can sell a "sports" car at a mass market price-point." But they aren't sports cars. They're the image of a sports car... aimed at teenagers who can't afford something better and middle-aged men going through their mid-life crisis who don't have the balls to commit to a car without a back seat.

okay end rant.
 

Phil Ayesho

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I recently got a new-ish car and was split between a Used TT 3.2 quattro and the MiniCooper S.


After driving, it was no contest... the cooper is a great car, gorgeous, with a sharp and clean interior.... but a new S was about the same price as a 2 year old TT with 250 horses and Audi's astonishing DSG transmission.

Found one with only 15k miles on it.

Audi's DSG is an auto-clutch 6 speed manual with a twist- 2 clutches... it passes the drive line from one clutch to the other with actual gear changes happening on the non-engaged clutch between shifts... so the only thing that happens during a shift is letting go of one clutch as it grabs the other...
each shift takes a tenth of a second with the computer blipping the throttle for perfect rev matching.

A beefed up seven speed version of this transmission that can take 1000 hp is in the Bugatti Veyron... and Audi is building a special 7 speed version for porsche to be available next year. BMW and Benz have discontinued their crappy and sloe single clutch autoshift systems and are developing a dual clutch like Audi's.

If you can't get the 3.2 DSG TT... the 180 hp and 225 hp TTs are much less costly used, and there are lots of avialable mods to boot the heck out of their performance.



But VW makes a GTI with the same 3.2 engine and transmission and it goes like a rocket, too.
 

transformer_99

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Well, if you are technically going to argue what a sports car is, is a 3,500 lb vehicle a sports car ? Get it under 3,000 lbs and I'd qualify it as such, otherwise you're throwing twin turbo straight and V6's, V8, V10 and V12 cylinders at it to really overcome the fact it weighs that much. The later Z cars, Supras, Corvettes, 3000 GT's, even the Viper are all well over 3,000 lbs. That leaves the RX7 as the only one of the bunch to stay under 3,000 lbs. An exotic car is one thing, sports car it isn't by definition.
 

B_NineInchCock_160IQ

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For that matter, if said criteria applies to an RX7 but not to a Ferrari Enzo (curb weight 3009 lbs) or a Bugatti Veyron (curb weight 4162 lbs)... it's a REALLY bad criteria for determining what a real sports car is.

An RX-7 isn't a sports car, it's more like a compact. Anything that is sold with a 146 hp engine isn't a sports car unless it has the name Lotus stamped on it somewhere.
 

transformer_99

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9, you are confusing sports car with a supercar. Personally, I wouldn't classify anything much appreciably over 3.5L a sports car. I guess you have 4 litre Jaguars, but keep them to 6 cylinders and I'd say you have a sports car if the weight can stay around 3,000 lbs. Otherwise you are simply throwing a V8 or better at it. You might as well run 1/4 miles in a straight line with that kind of advantage. And let's face it, the Ferrari Enzo, that's an exotic with the pricetag it commands.

Put another way, regardless of how good the cars you want to include as a sports car handles, throw it on wet pavement and/or in the rain, all of a sudden the weights those cars come in at and their bigger engines is a liability. They simply are too big to handle with a Porsche, too powerful to apply the horsepower to the road without breaking the rubber free. Nimble & light defines a sports car, Corvette and Viper will never be that, even though technology has gotten them as trim as they can be. I put them in the class of economically affordable Supercars. Off the showroom floor @ 200+ mph, that's a low end supercar/exotic.

BTW, 146 hp is a late 70's, 80's and early 90's RX7, it's normally aspirated and is only 1.3 litres, the 3rd gen RX7 had 255 hp, twin turbo and was 1.3 litres.
 

B_NineInchCock_160IQ

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3.5L engines are what I use to power my toothbrush.

Personally I wouldn't give the sports car label to anything with less than 300 hp.

If you think that over 300 hp puts something in supercar territory, then I'm guessing you like Japanese cars a lot.

Your definition of under 3000 lbs for a sports car is ridiculous. but so is this whole argument. You can define sports cars however you want, I don't care. Just a stupid label. but 3000 lbs is freaking tiny for a car. I think maybe you are confusing sports car with athletic shoe. My size 18 Air Jordans are about as big as an RX-7.

My Viper handles awesome, btw. and both the Viper and the Corvette will DESTROY an RX-7 in the slalom let alone any track with a straight-away.
 

B_Fire-3

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3.5L engines are what I use to power my toothbrush.

Personally I wouldn't give the sports car label to anything with less than 300 hp.

If you think that over 300 hp puts something in supercar territory, then I'm guessing you like Japanese cars a lot.

Your definition of under 3000 lbs for a sports car is ridiculous. but so is this whole argument. You can define sports cars however you want, I don't care. Just a stupid label. but 3000 lbs is freaking tiny for a car. I think maybe you are confusing sports car with athletic shoe. My size 18 Air Jordans are about as big as an RX-7.

My Viper handles awesome, btw. and both the Viper and the Corvette will DESTROY an RX-7 in the slalom let alone any track with a straight-away.

FD RX-7 will decimate a C4 vette. FD w/ LS1 swap will rape your piece of shit Viper in any circumstance. The chassis is incredible in those cars.
 

B_NineInchCock_160IQ

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FD RX-7 will decimate a C4 vette. FD w/ LS1 swap will rape your piece of shit Viper in any circumstance. The chassis is incredible in those cars.

right. and your mommy is going to pay for those upgrades, too?

I know I told you to go watch The Fast and the Furious, but are you actually doing it right now as you're typing?
 

transformer_99

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3.5L engines are what I use to power my toothbrush.

Personally I wouldn't give the sports car label to anything with less than 300 hp.

If you think that over 300 hp puts something in supercar territory, then I'm guessing you like Japanese cars a lot.

Your definition of under 3000 lbs for a sports car is ridiculous. but so is this whole argument. You can define sports cars however you want, I don't care. Just a stupid label. but 3000 lbs is freaking tiny for a car. I think maybe you are confusing sports car with athletic shoe. My size 18 Air Jordans are about as big as an RX-7.

My Viper handles awesome, btw. and both the Viper and the Corvette will DESTROY an RX-7 in the slalom let alone any track with a straight-away.

This must've been embarassing ?

YouTube - Electric RX7 drags a Dodge Viper
 

B_Fire-3

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you're flipping channels now. First Fast and the Furious, then Gary Coleman, and finally Mr. T?


Right, whatever you say, pal. I'm done checking this thread, thanks.:rolleyes:



FIRE2.jpg
 

transformer_99

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To be honest, even the Japanese were getting stupid about sports cars. The Z, Supra and Mitsu 3000GT, all went well above 3,000 lbs in the 90's. Then with the luxury appointments in interior, what was a sports car in the 90's really was no longer a sports car. I don't really consider them as such even though others may, you really have to turn the definition back and say the Miata, BMW Z series and similar were the true sportscars at that point. Not some 8+ litre monster weighing 3500 lbs. Heck, that was fit & trim comparing it to an AWD Mitsubishi 3000GT twin turbo ?
 

Phil Ayesho

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I think the debate over what qualifies as a sports car is ridiculous.
All that matters is how it drives... and are you having fun...

The gold standard for a daily driver sport has to be the 911. But who can afford the upkeep?


Little jap cars are great... none of the dragsters around here will touch a mustang because they fly off the road at the slightest error... but those little japs are easy to mod and light on their feet.


My 3.2 TT has outrun much higher hp cars, including mustangs, and vettes, simply because their drivers were not the Mario Andrettis they imagined themselves to be. Me neither... but With the DSG in sport mode, the Audi S cars shift perfectly, right at redline, in a tenth of a second. Without your letting your foot off the firewall. IF muscle car guy makes one bad shift, too early or fails to match engine speed... I pass him.
( or I can use the paddle shifters if I think I can do better)

Particularly in wet weather on a winding road.... I can do things in the quattro TT that RWD muscle cars can't even dream about without spinning out...

also I really love that the TT coupe is distinctive... you don't see them everywhere... and I can, if need be, carry 4 people... or some significant cargo.

All in all... its the most fun I have ever had driving. Even if it does weigh a little more than 3000...
Its faster and more nimble than 95% of the other traffic on the road...


that's fast enough for me...


Buy the car that's the most fun you can afford...

But if you have never driven a car with DSG ( now called S-tronic) you owe it to yourself to test drive one...

its the ideal transmission for a performance car.

Just look at the Bugatti.
 

vince

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I picked up a 2003 Ducati 999 last month for 7600 dollars.
190mph, 0-60 in 3.85 seconds, quarter mile in about 10.5 secs.
No wussy airbags.
Nail it in 1st, 2nd, or even 3rd and the thing will will pull a full gainer and land you on your ass.
What fun! Oh, and what's that smell? Why it's my roasting thighs. :biggrin1:
 

transformer_99

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I think the debate over what qualifies as a sports car is ridiculous.

I don't, the cars that 9 mentions, everyone of them has something ridiculously exotic about them. The Ferrari, carbon fiber body, now there's a feature that's off the shelf to make a V12, 3,000 lbs light. The Bughatti was mentioned too, how many turbochargers does it have (4 of them), not to mention 10 radiators to keep it cool enough to drive that fast. It's also an 8L behemoth. Look at the price tags on those cars, if that doesn't make them exotics I don't know what does ? Supercars, we're talking vehicles that approach/exceed what an Indy car does in terms of top speed. They've even limited them to 8 cylinders tops:

The Development of the Indy Car
Bugatti Veyron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

Nrets

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I think sports cars are like sports...some are graceful like golf or swimming and some are rough like Football or hockey. The Dodge Viper and the McClaren F1 is football or hockey. Triumphs, MG's basically anything old and British and cars like the RX 7 are all golf or swimming. Ferarris and other really high class sports cars are like football players who can also rock at golfing.
But they are all sports (cars) as long as they are built for handling, have some sporty style and are geared more for driving than comfort.