Silence Is Deafening, Part 2

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Flashy, May 14, 2009.

  1. Flashy

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    So friends, how about making some noise here?

    most of you were a bit quiet on Chrysler, obviously...and i expect the silence to continue on this.
    --
    Craig Holman, government affairs lobbyist for Public Citizen, said Thursday the groups’ request was meant to send a message to Speaker Nancy Pelosi , D-Calif., to do something.
    “She can’t just pretend it is Republicans trying to embarrass the Democrats. She has got to deal with this issue,” Holman said.
    Holman said he was hopeful the move will “contribute to lighting a fire under Democrats to act on this,” noting that Pelosi had campaigned on ethics issues.
    --



    Guess corruption isn't just for republicans anymore, huh?


    so let us hear the same type of condemnation normally reserved for the corruption of republicans...




    ----

    House Democratic leaders face new pressure from four watchdog groups usually allied with them to open an investigation into the ties between three powerful Democrats and the now-defunct lobbying firm The PMA Group.
    Democracy 21, Common Cause, Public Citizen and U.S. PIRG on Thursday called on the House Committee on Standards of Official Conduct to probe the relationship PMA had with Democratic Reps. John P. Murtha of Pennsylvania, Peter J. Visclosky of Indiana and James P. Moran of Virginia. The lawmakers secured lucrative earmarks for defense contractors represented by The PMA Group and received political donations from family members of the lobbying firm’s founder.




    CQ Politics | Watchdog Groups Join Calls for PMA Probe


    ---

    how about it folks?

    Should ethics be stressed only when it is the republicans violating them?
     
  2. ZOS23xy

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    Ya have to wonder what's what and up when Joe Biden makes a verbal gaffe about swine flu (not going on airplanes) and George Bush. When Bush pushed the limit over his idiotic verbal gaffes, very little was done in the major press. Even when he said his hardest job was linking Al Quida to Saddam, there wasn't much of an outpour on inquiry?

    Something stinks.
     
  3. Flashy

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    true...but at least that is not corruption...that is just stupid

    Biden already said a couple more dumb things recently that barely got noticed...he said a few absurdly false things about the economy and made some dumb comment about his dog being smarter than Obama's dog.

    those things aside, my problem is that when we rightly had serious questions to be asked about a slimeball like TomDeLay, and a scumbag like Abrahamoff and their despicable behavior, people were rightly up in arms...especially here...

    but why now, with PMA, Murtha, et.al is there silence?

    it couldn't be more telling, imo.
     
  4. midlifebear

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    Going off topic, but not too far: I know (think) Murtha is a Democratic Congressman. Right? Despite the fact he sounds more like a town in Texas. So, I'm a bit out of the loop unless it has to do with the torture stuff unless Murtha now claims to have reliable evidence that UFOS (OMNIS) exist (or is that Marfa?). Pelosi I don't hear much noise about in the foreign dailies (life is so much easier when I don't have to read, write, or speak in English), so I miss most of the crumbs on the trails of these issues. She would be third in line to become President if Obama died of swine flu and Biden's old dance with brain cancer came back and put him out of commission?

    But I just heard on BBC TV news that as of today Chrysler is now formally in bankruptcy? Is it just Chapter 11 or is the company actually being sold off into nothingness to debtors? Spain's not really big about FIAT. Most folks who own autos drive Peugeots, Citroens, Renaults, BMWs and Mercedes. There are a few Ford dealerships about town, as well.

    Regardless, I'm pissed that GM and Chrysler received money to keep the UAW from recruiting their Teamsters Brethren to kidnap and dispose of various "enemies" of the unions by converting them into Presto Logs. I have an old Jimmy Hoffa Memorial Presto Log containing bits of him. I'm quite certain that I do.

    I guess I'll just have to wait until the embedded links begin working again in the above posts. Something happened going through customs so many times during the last couple of weeks. I ran a diagnostic check and my RAM is only 126. Something has happened to the original two 512 megabyte RAM chips so that only 126 is now alive and of life support. But the guys at the Dell store near the Joanic Metro Station say they can't get me new 1,000+ megabyte RAM chips until May 22nd.

    But, yeah, I'm pissed. I'm always pissed about something.
     
    #4 midlifebear, May 14, 2009
    Last edited: May 14, 2009
  5. houtx48

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    why is there a part 2?
     
  6. Drifterwood

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    Well, I have never heard of them Flash, but perhaps now is a good time to acknowledge that United deserve the title.
     
  7. Bbucko

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    Because obviously part one wasn't quite deafening enough.
     
  8. D_Tully Tunnelrat

    D_Tully Tunnelrat New Member

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    At some point, more deafening can become total. Given there are only about 2-15 people reading the politics section here at anyone time, that would unfortunately not take much...

    BTTTAH...

    Longtime Congressman Murtha, gained lots of press in 2005 for his proposal to remove troops from Iraq. He was somewhat shielded from Bush etal criticisms by virtue of his decorated veteran (Marines) status, but still managed to be called a "coward" for espousing a cut and run exit strategy. But his actual lifes work has been to transform his Johnstown, PA district from defunct steel town in a defense industry supplier mecca.

    Murtha has been on the House Appropriation Defense Subcommittee since 1989. During that time he transformed Johnstown into pork central. His crowning earmark is the $150M airport named after him, which has 3 flights a day, all to Washington, D.C.

    He has been named by Esquire, Citizens for Ethics and Responsibility in Washington as one of the 10 most corrupt members of Congress. The latest allegations against him are for steering $38M to PMA in '08, PMA is run by a former member of the HADS, and is under investigation by the FBI. Murtha was also involved in Abscam in the 80s.

    Pelosi is just viewed as a vulnerable target whom the Repubs can attack, as her opinion polls are much lower than Barack's. If she's under fire for the veracity of her torture recollections, she'll have a harder time rallying sufficient support for health care reform, which the Repubs want to defeat far more than they care if the smears on her character stick.
    Whether she knew about water boarding or not should not be the point of any investigation, the point of accountability should be who designed, and authorized the use of "enhanced interrogation techniques." That would, of course, be unfab 4 John, George, Don, and Dick.

    BTW MLB what is the word on the street about the attempts to try Bush and Cheney in Spain?

    Obama Protecting Bush from Spain? | AfterDowningStreet.org
     
  9. midlifebear

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    duc10023:

    Thanks for clearing up some of the vagueness about Pelosi and Murtha.

    As for general public opinion among Josés los fonternos and other folks on the street, the majority of Spain is giddy with relief that Bush is no longer President. There is some confusion about Cheney, because his comments do make it in the daily newspapers and this is something Spaniards don't really understand. Most Spaniards feel that once a politician has served in office and leaves, they should shut up and allow the new administration or political replacements to explain what's going on in the current government. That is, unless a politician is serving in a new publically appointed or elected capacity. For example, ex prime minister Aznar is rarely heard from. Current prime minister Zapatero speaks to a part if not all of the country everyday and strongly responds regularly to Rajoy (think Spanish Bush) who is the loudest of his critics and will run against him once again (and once again most likely lose).

    What is identified in the USA as conservative and right wing cannot pull together a coalition in Spain. And the Bush administration is the primary reason Spanish right wing conservatives are incapable of having much influence these days. Opponents seeking office are expected to mouth off and contradict everything, but not retired/replaced government officials.

    Spain is looking forward to having Obama engage it in economic and trade discussions. As for dragging the previous administration into court, most Spaniards are appalled that the Bush Presidency regarded the Geneva Conventions agreements/accords on the topic of torture with so little regard. Obama is seen by both conservative and left newspapers as a positive leader who will undoubtedly fail at getting some of his goals accomplished, but will have more success than Bush-like failures. They also don't expect Obama to run his presidency as fascist-like as Bush did his 8 years. And Spaniards know a lot about fascists. Obama will most likely not be met with masses of protesters carrying signs and screaming "¡Fuera Obama!" If Cheney shows up for a visit to Madrid, he will most likely not be received by Zapatero. Instead, some underling in the government with no purpose or power will receive him just to be polite.

    If I read Diairo's OP/ED positions correctly (Barçelona's most popular newspaper), once the world economic engine starts up again and life seems to return to normal, then and only then would it be worth the USA's time and effort to investigate Bush's and Cheney's complicity in crimes against sovereign nations, violating the Geneva Convention's agreements on torture and, if found guilty, they'd regard the USA's version of democracy as slow, but working. Most likely, the USA would gain a couple of percentage points back on the "respect" scale.

    Currently, Spain is working on getting the last of the presence of the US Airforce removed from the peninsula. It's the biggest sore point in what is still not a cohesive country. Spain is not like France or Germany. Spain is a coalition of autonomous regions encouraged to revel in their local differences and cultures. While Franco had police pick up people in the street for speaking Galician, Catalán, or Basque and then killing them, Franco was also taking as much money as possible from the USA to line his pockets as well as his many generals by allowing the USA to install military air force facilities to maintain and service B52s carrying nuclear weapons to "protect" Spain and northern Africa form the evils of Communism. As for northern Africa, I doubt any US military officials ever asked what Morocco, Egypt, or Tunisia, thought.

    Spain is more concerned with being a successful member of the E.U. They are a major manufacturer and supplier of aerospace parts for the Arian rockets that launch E.U. satellites into stationary orbits as well as a main cog in the wheel that creates parts for Airbus where they are shipped to Tolouse, France.

    Where you find much more criticism and "stay out of our countries and leave us alone" is with the MERCOSUR countries of South America. With the exception of Columbia and Chile, the rest of South America is anxious to keep the USA as just a trade partner. For example, if Argentina ever needs new super sonic fighter jets, they'll buy them from China and France. If Hugo Chavez becomes too much of an embarrassment, it will be Brazil that takes care of Venezuela -- not the USA.

    When Bush left office the majority of South and Central American countries let out a collective sigh of relief. Only Chile and Columbia are tied so tightly to the USA economically and politically. Bush, Cheney, and illegal torture are almost daily topics in the major papers of Brazil, Argentina, Ecuador, Peru, and Uruguay. Argentina, in particular, would love to see any civil rights wrong doings promulgated by the Bush years be vigorously prosecuted. After all, the USA was a big supporter of Argentina's military regime that ended when the military junta was voted and summarily thrown out of office in 1982. And Argentina is still ferreting out Nazis now in their late 90's and rolling about in wheel chairs, hiding in Bariloche or the "Southern Alps." Although Argentina has some strange laws preventing them from sending them back to Europe, they have an agreement where they are extradited to Santiago, Chile, from where they are spirited away back to Germany, Bavaria, Austira, etc. Porteños would LOVE to see the Bush/Cheney crowd put in jail for something -- anything. Bush was and remains very unpopular in the Austral world.
     
    #9 midlifebear, May 17, 2009
    Last edited: May 17, 2009
  10. SilverTrain

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    I am dismayed by corruption, whether it's democrats, republicans, libertarians, greens, whigs, labour.....

    I won't defend someone who's clearly guilty of corruption, be they democrat, republican, libertarian, green, whig, labour.....
     
  11. D_Harry_Crax

    D_Harry_Crax Account Disabled

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    The Democrats probably are just following the example of the Republicans during the Reagan and Bush II administrations when they NEVER made any noise about fellow Republicans being corrupt ethically or even criminal.....
     
  12. lucky8

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    Term limits for all lawmakers
     
  13. sargon20

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    I suspect you are asking for something other than mankind. Is there a man or woman who is not corruptible, who is free of temptation?
     
  14. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    free of temptation? no

    free of corruption? yes
     
  15. sargon20

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    you ask too much
    history 101
    freud 101
     
  16. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    Obama (aka James Earl Carter II) will be long forgotten, and the new American Cincinnatus will restore

    Cincinnatus
     
  17. SilverTrain

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    Not really sure what you're on about. Of course humans are all subject to corruption.

    But it doesn't make it any easier to tolerate. Or defend.

    I am a realist, but also an optimist.

    We should aspire to greatness and virtue, even with our feet of clay.
     
  18. SilverTrain

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    And this has what to do with the thread?

    You are the master of the non-sequitur.

    Christen thee: Non Sequitus
     
  19. sargon20

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    Some days I'm optimistic other days the doctor says it's terminal.
     
  20. SilverTrain

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    Hah! I know the feeling.
     
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