Snap uk election..

[chrisrobin]

Well I do, and you just stated it too. Why should all these people be attending university, paying huge fees just to get a qualification in a silly subject no use to anyone? the point of selecting the brightest for university was that these are the ones who could benefit from it. No one wants to hire a third rate computer programmer, and if they do should not be surprised if 10 years later they face a massive lawsuit because their software went wrong at a critical moment.

Iniversity has just become anither scam. Like the emperor's new clothes, no one is willing to be first to say 'he hasnt got anything on'

FOR ONCE WE ARE IN AGREEMENT

Today May said she wants to spend anothe £10bn subsidising people's mortgages. So instead of spending it on building houses, selling them cheaply and thereby saving the people concerned just as much,recouping all the costs of the scheme from the sale proceeds so it costs the state nothing.... she will instead throw away £10 bn bidding up the cost of the inadequate number of exsiting houses even more.

And people wonder how the nation could be so stupid as to vote to leave the EU....

 

[Jason]

@dandelion Socialism has always failed. It has failed in every nation at every time, no exceptions at all. There one think that is absolutely certain is that no country ever needs socialist policies.

 

[dandelion]

@dandelion Socialism has always failed.

Jase, do you never learn? We live in a socialist society. We no longer live in a feudal society where the wealth has aggregated to the most able to seize it. We live in a socialist society where government intervention in the marketplace ensures wealth gets distributed to all.

It has failed in every nation at every time,

Today Theresa May announced she wants to adopt the socialist policies of jeremy Corbyn which you keep attacking. She doesnt believe you.

 

[chrisrobin]

Jase, do you never learn? We live in a socialist society. We no longer live in a feudal society where the wealth has aggregated to the most able to seize it. We live in a socialist society where government intervention in the marketplace ensures wealth gets distributed to all.

Today Theresa May announced she wants to adopt the socialist policies of jeremy Corbyn which you keep attacking. She doesnt believe you.

While the socialists have bitter mixed up jealous old shrews like the MP for Kensington who can only attack those who cant reply then the party is doomed, as indeed she will be come the next election.
Bitter biased bastards do nothing to help the cause, and just as well because it will never work, never come to fruition because eventually groups like Momentum will take over, poison the atmosphere and turn those who believe in a just form of socialism away.
Tell us all, we'd like to know -
WHICH COUNTRIES HAVE SURVIVED AND PROSPERED UNDER SOCIALISM?
Countries please that enjoy the same freedom of speech movement and expression as we have.

 

[dandelion]

WHICH COUNTRIES HAVE SURVIVED AND PROSPERED UNDER SOCIALISM?
Countries please that enjoy the same freedom of speech movement and expression as we have.

Well us mate. Britin IS a socialist state. Did you not notice? Europe is full of socialist states, some of them currently run by political parties well to the left of labour. Indeed with their entire political mainstream well to the left of labour. Socialism has created the prosperity we enjoy today. Paradoxically, Europe got wealthy when it took wealth away from private hands and gave it to everyone. The economy only functions well when everyone has a pretty equal stake.

Did you not notice France owns british utilities? How outrageous is that? Why? Because the conservative party has a policy of giving away state assets into private ownership. Because they want to return to feudal england. They have a policy of asset stripping the nation. 'The rich man in his castle, the poor man at his gate'

Now Russia is an example of a feudal state. The sort England no longer is, but which conservatives aspire to recreate. There was a revolt in Russia againts feudal rule about 1916, but it came to nothing, just a change of dynasty. There was anothe in the late 20th century. Not sure how that one will play out, they may still move to be a classic european socialist nation and get rich as a result.

Conservative party conference this week. Someone was asking how come the conservstives have ditched most of the measures which wre in their manifesto, and for the most part seem to be trying to copy, in a watered down version, the policies which were in the labour party manifesto. Whatev rviews you have of the labour party, the tories are trying to copy them. You seem a bit behind events.

 

[chrisrobin]

Well us mate. Britin IS a socialist state. Did you not notice? Europe is full of socialist states, some of them currently run by political parties well to the left of labour. Indeed with their entire political mainstream well to the left of labour. Socialism has created the prosperity we enjoy today. Paradoxically, Europe got wealthy when it took wealth away from private hands and gave it to everyone. The economy only functions well when everyone has a pretty equal stake.

Did you not notice France owns british utilities? How outrageous is that? Why? Because the conservative party has a policy of giving away state assets into private ownership. Because they want to return to feudal england. They have a policy of asset stripping the nation. 'The rich man in his castle, the poor man at his gate'

Now Russia is an example of a feudal state. The sort England no longer is, but which conservatives aspire to recreate. There was a revolt in Russia againts feudal rule about 1916, but it came to nothing, just a change of dynasty. There was anothe in the late 20th century. Not sure how that one will play out, they may still move to be a classic european socialist nation and get rich as a result.

Conservative party conference this week. Someone was asking how come the conservstives have ditched most of the measures which wre in their manifesto, and for the most part seem to be trying to copy, in a watered down version, the policies which were in the labour party manifesto. Whatev rviews you have of the labour party, the tories are trying to copy them. You seem a bit behind events.

Comrade, no, never!

 

[Jason]

Years back I spent a lot of time rattling around the back and beyond of Russia. I know what socialism is. Anyone who suggests socialism can ever work is dangerous. It is a life-destroying doctrine.

 

[southeastone]

Did you not notice France owns british utilities? How outrageous is that? Why? Because the conservative party has a policy of giving away state assets into private ownership. Because they want to return to feudal england. They have a policy of asset stripping the nation. 'The rich man in his castle, the poor man at his gate'



.

Did you notice that for example EDF was formed by taking over uk utility companies in 2002 under labour, they went on to take over British energy in 2009 making them the largest uk energy distributors, this was bought off the labour government.

 

[chrisrobin]

Years back I spent a lot of time rattling around the back and beyond of Russia. I know what socialism is. Anyone who suggests socialism can ever work is dangerous. It is a life-destroying doctrine.

Indeed, Russia is a great place to look at but really is a proponent of the " all men are equal except those who are a bit more equal" I crossed Russia in the 80's, experienced the "ladies with the keys", the feeling on being followed, of lack of freedom and the way all staff knew they had to report to someone every day. In Kiev I think we managed to slip the guards, ended up at the Olympic Stadium, crumbling, falling apart. Met some children who loved showing of their English skills, we gave them pens with western business logo's
- afterwards we wondered how those would be explained away. For tourists and guests as long as they remained within set areas - Ok but outside those given perimeters a heavy hand and questioning - and locals shit scared and begging to do favours for the secret police elite.
Think that's really what Dandelion and his friends are after... big Daddy!

 

[Jason]

If Corbyn wins then Momentum transforms into the mob that does the knee capping and the murders. Remember, Corbyn admires the IRA.

I do wonder if we need five years of Corbyn so that people learn what hell is like. I suppose I'm assuming our democratic institutions are sufficiently resilient for there to be another election.

 

[Drifterwood]

Years back I spent a lot of time rattling around the back and beyond of Russia. I know what socialism is. Anyone who suggests socialism can ever work is dangerous. It is a life-destroying doctrine.

Dandelion said that Russia was not socialist. It was or tried to be totalitarian under the guise of communism.

The main difference that I can see between Corbyn and May is that one wishes to fund the Country through private debt on the young and the other through public debt to be repaid by the old and the wealthier.

 

[Jason]

But the old won't repay public debt - they will shuffle off to the post-Brexit utopia in the sky.

Debts have to be repaid by the young. The students of today will pay off the debts run up since the 1960s, basically their debts, their parents' debts and their grandparents debts.

 

[dandelion]

Debts have to be repaid by the young. The students of today will pay off the debts run up since the 1960s, basically their debts, their parents' debts and their grandparents debts.

Surely we have been repaying debts since the 1960's? Around 2000 it was at an historic low ever since 1920 and debts run up by ww1. Uniquly th last 10 years has seen rising national debt.

 

[Drifterwood]

But the old won't repay public debt - they will shuffle off to the post-Brexit utopia in the sky.

Debts have to be repaid by the young. The students of today will pay off the debts run up since the 1960s, basically their debts, their parents' debts and their grandparents debts.

When the cranky old you never had it so good Brexit generation shuffles off, Corbyn will be taking 70% of what they have left behind. I am beginning to have less of a problem with that. Wasn't there a parable about burying your money?

And we can have capital gains tax on residential property.

 

[dreamkendrafuckME]

So she was sick. big deal, she's human. like if people didin't know, humans can be susceptible to disease and/or bodily malfunctions.

 

[dandelion]

Before 2008 the bank of England warned that private debt was at an all time high, and rising unsustainably. Then we had the crash, which brought it down a bit. But since then government has been encouraging it to rise again, and it has. Meanwhile they have been running up their own debt.

The problem is not the debt, but what it is being spent on. Hardly any of it is going into investment in manufacturing. Most is used for consumer debt with nothing to show except an increased turnover in goods- we throw things away before they are no longer functional. An awful lot is going into asset inflation. We buy some sort of security which then pushes up its price despite there being no more return from that investment.

Right now the bofE is trying to push up interest rates a little so as to dampen down the propety market. They know there will be an economic crash if Brexit happens, which will crash the property market, and they have to try to head this off. Making money more expensive now will dampen demand a little while there is still a couple or more years to prepare. Then when the crash comes they can reduce interest rates again. I wonder if this time they will go for negative interest rates?

In a centuries time, peole will look back on this and define the Thatcher administration as the start of an era of economic collapse for the Uk. Other countries have had crashes because of housebuilding booms, but uniquely we shall have had one because of a house building shortage.

 

[Jason]

I'm very cautious about trying to predict how people in the future will assess the UK economy.

I am confident that outbreaks of socialism will be regarded as we view outbreaks of the plague. Socialism has killed about 110m people and is the biggest single human cause of human misery. Corbyn's model society of Venezuela is a clear example. Closer to home so is the poor performance of the health service in Labour-run Wales.

I am confident that debt will be regarded as the root of many economic problems, and the adherence to Keynes will seem puzzling. The western system has tolerated borrowing to consume when austerity is the only sustainable future. The debt problems are in origin the legacy of the world wars. The UK went broke in the 1970s, long before Thatcher. In retrospect Thatcher should have done more to address debt. We certainly needed public sector pay cuts for example.

 

[Drifterwood]

I'm very cautious about trying to predict how people in the future will assess the UK economy.

I am confident that outbreaks of socialism will be regarded as we view outbreaks of the plague. Socialism has killed about 110m people and is the biggest single human cause of human misery. Corbyn's model society of Venezuela is a clear example. Closer to home so is the poor performance of the health service in Labour-run Wales.

I am confident that debt will be regarded as the root of many economic problems, and the adherence to Keynes will seem puzzling. The western system has tolerated borrowing to consume when austerity is the only sustainable future. The debt problems are in origin the legacy of the world wars. The UK went broke in the 1970s, long before Thatcher. In retrospect Thatcher should have done more to address debt. We certainly needed public sector pay cuts for example.

You could wipe the national debt with a 10% levy on the property assets of the over 60s.

 

[dandelion]

The debt problems are in origin the legacy of the world wars

No they are not. Looking at a long term graph of national debt it has always soared in wartime and then been paid off, as had happened re WW2. For the last 10 years we have seen steadily increasing debt post the 2008 world bank fraud. Not ciaused by war, but the management of the economy.

The western system has tolerated borrowing to consume when austerity is the only sustainable future.

No. Borrowing to consume isnt very sensible, but nor is austerity. Austerity isnt a solution but another problem. It simply suppresses demand. What the government means by austerity is abolishing government services, which are generally cheaper than the same services provided by the private sector.

The UK went broke in the 1970s, long before Thatcher.

What? Thatcher entered parliament in 1959. She was minister for education 70-74 in the conservative government which was running the economy at the start of the 70s. The uk did not go broke, but the reason it was in severe financial difficulties was primarily the dislocation of the world economy caused by massive rises in energy prices, when the arabs got their act together and demanded proper payment for their oil, which hitherto the west had enjoyed very cheaply.

In retrospect Thatcher should have done more to address debt. We certainly needed public sector pay cuts for example.

What she did do was turn it into the mainstay of the Uk economy, though in fact I have seen argument the roots of this began under Heath.

 

[Jason]

The absolute level of the UK's debt expressed as a percentage of GDP is around the following levels:
1914: 30%
1918: 180%
(little reduction in the inter-war years)
1945: 230%
Jumpy fall to 1992
1992: 30%
2015: 82%

A couple of factors have a big impact:
* the bond yield determines what a nation actually pays. Right now bond yields are low.
* debt caused by QE is in effect the nation lending to itself - it is a bit different.