So what's bush going to do about North Korea now?

ClaireTalon

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Yes I do. DPRK owns about 12,000 artillery pieces, ROK less than 6,000. However, we know only the number of the pieces they own, but it's highly speculative how many of those are usable. Some estimates say that 4,000 to 6,000 are only used to deliver spare parts to the rest, or are too dangerous to be used. That is the problem about the whole DPRK army equipment, nobody knows how much of it will fall apart after the second shot has been fired from it.

It should also be interesting how responsive the DPRK population has been to their propaganda, and how much their bad life conditions have gotten to them. Would they receive invaders with open arms, or would they form partisan movements? Really interesting questions, they determine how fierce resistance would be.

Okay, I'll answer my own question, too. Conclusions. It's quite obvious that DPRK isn't going to play along with the west, so the first step should me multi-sided. On the one hand, strict sanctions and embargos, that put all of the trade with them to a halt. I have also heard yesterday that even China is closing part of its border posts to DPRK. Ground their airline, keep their merchant fleet out, and cut them off. At the same time, ROK should be provided to stock up on arms, especially their Air Force. And if it really comes to a war, we should assist them, quite frankly, we'd have to. We can't be their allies for 50 years in piece times, and then twiddle our thumbs when they're at war. I see our task in making the DPRK troops bleed men and material at the border and on their own terrain, and take the swing out of their attack.

Or maybe we should demand one Nuclear Weapons test from them after the other, until they run out of fission material.

tripod said:
North Korea has conventional artillery that could light the entire city of Seoul immediatly on fire, Claire Talon will attest to this. Let's have no illusions about the North Korean military, they have a VERY powerful regional presence (the world's fifth largest military with a peasant-worker reserve army of 4,000,000). There can be NO taking on the army of North Korea in any form of land combat without MASSIVE casualties. Any solution must NOT provoke a military response by North Korea. South Korea would be annihilated. I see now that this could become a future possibility because China is growing ever closer to Japan, atleast in an economic sense. I actually have no idea of what to do, save for direct talks and an end to the Korean War with a peace treaty (call me crazy).
 

D_Humper E Bogart

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Y'know, it's very interesting that when a crappy country in the godfuck middle of nowhere says "we're going to get nuclear power", people thousands of miles away shit their pants that they're going to get a bomb and begin millitary proceedings.

Meanwhile, a country that's had them for decades shows off and everyone shrugs and lays an embargo that Cuba could shrug off.

You know what I smell?

I smell CHICKEN!
 

kalipygian

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So what did happen?

Did China sort it out peacefully for the time being? :rolleyes:


Hope so(from the perspective of their likeliest target, if their missiles actually worked), they threatened to shut down fuel and power.

Sympathetic for the people of N.K., (a lot of Koreans here), suffering under an even flakier head of government than we are.
 

madame_zora

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Not a lot being done, not a lot TO be done. The time to shit our pants over this was before it became a reality. As I started this thread some months ago- I was trying to point out how little intelligence had been invested into this situation (by us).

I wasn't trying to suggest that bush should do anything about this situation- just that he had swaggered around proclaiming that he would. I just wanted to be able to sit here some time later and call him out on one more in an extraordinary list of bullshit propaganda stories. Anyone with an iq above that of a turnip can see how desperately sparse our military is right now- we couldn't back up a threat if we tried.


CEBU, Philippines (Reuters) - Southeast Asian countries urged China, Japan and South Korea on Sunday to find fresh ideas to resolve the North Korean nuclear crisis and remove the threat of an atomic arms race in the region. The Association of South East Asian Nations (ASEAN), which wants to establish itself as a world player, waded into the discussion on North Korea at a regional summit in the central Philippines, according to documents seen by Reuters.

China, Japan and South Korea held their first trilateral meeting since Shinzo Abe took over as prime minister last year and, in a sign of improving relations under the less-controversial Abe, said they would now consult each other regularly on major issues.
"As important countries in Asia, China, Japan and ROK (South Korea) shoulder great responsibilities in maintaining peace, stability and prosperity in Asia," their statement read.
But, while they agreed to start talks on an investment pact, increase cooperation on environmental issues and promote discussions on energy security, the trio merely repeated their concern about Pyongyang's October 9 nuclear test.

SE Asia urges N.Korea breakthrough - Boston.com
 

ClaireTalon

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Apparently, this subject has dropped off the face of the news world, just as this thread has. In the meantime, I've only read one article that proved that it wasn't a fake nuclear explosion of some hundred tons of conventional HE, it has been the fizzle of a nuclear warhead, most probably due to mistakes made during the assembly of the detonator. But I guess since the announced second test failed to be conducted, everyone has kept his calm again.

By the way, maybe you want to see this movie, showing the test and results of the latest-generation DPRK short-range missiles.
 

stretcher74

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There is nothing to be done about North Korea because North Korea can and will do nothing nukes or not.
They have a couple low-yield bad design iffy warheads that they may eventually be able to trim down enough to put on one of their slow-fuel dud-missile systems. Assuming THADD couldn't take down any of these 1 shot wonders after that.

Madelene Albright has already informed the Kim that if any such a device detonated outside of North Korean territory that North Korea would(in her own words) "Be turned into an Ashtray in under 5 minutes". Probably a few times over.

Neverhappen.
 

LeeEJ

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So this link really freaked me out.

LOOK HOW ORGANIZED THEY ARE.

And these are kids, man.

I'm more astounded than freaked out -- that's an amazing amount of coordination and rehearsal to make that thing happen (and it's not done, either; there's more after the clip ends). The 15,000 kids holding the placards in the back seats achieve some astonishing things even beyond the dozens of pictures they display, like the big flashing flowers partway through.

Now, if they were reenacting war scenes and "mass of humanity attacks", then I'd be concerned. But, this doesn't look that much wilder than stuff you'd see at a Super Bowl halftime show (pierced nipples aside).
 

LeeEJ

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Since I commented on that children's parade, here's some more videos --

Bodyguard vid, with footage & political commentary regarding the shows:
YouTube - North Korean Bodyguard Training for dictator Kim Jong-il

UK-produced compilation set to music (really neat to watch, actually) :
YouTube - North Korean Mass Games

Another UK one, with commentary:
YouTube - Human Jumbotron - North Korean Mass Games

And the whole 2005 broadcast, in 6 parts (not all with sound, apparently) :
YouTube - North Korean Mass Games - Part 1
YouTube - North Korean Mass Games - Part 2
YouTube - North Korean Mass Games - Part 3
YouTube - North Korean Mass Games - Part 4
YouTube - North Korean Mass Games - Part 5
YouTube - North Korean Mass Games - Part 6

Political implications aside, it's an amazing spectacle.