So women aint stupid right?

[D_Tim McGnaw]

What is this difference?...I'm all ears (eyes?)

The difference is I'm aware that all advertising and marketing is manipulation, I don't object to being manipulated (as I pointed out in my OP) what I object to is manipulation which either presumes I'm stupid and can't tell that I'm being manipulated or manipulation which conceals no real added value.

Mascara which claims to give you false lash effect eyelashes which is advertised by women quite obviously wearing false eyelashes presumes that the viewer of this advert is unable to perceive the most blatant of lies, and has no acumen (or even visual acuity) whatsoever.

If a product is marketed to me as a consumer who might have a modicum of perception, and is aware that I might be able to check the claims made for the product for myself or indeed that I may have some product knowledge it will naturally presume that I am aware of the manipulation involved but will also find it difficult to make utterly false claims regarding its efficacy.

This kind of marketing will need to stress added value above and beyond novelty, and will need to enter in to a kind of bargaining with its target market. That bargaining allows me the space to view the product for what it is rather than as the fiction the marketers would have me believe of it.

For instance, I buy a lot of perfume, I read widely about perfumes and perfume making, I understand the chemistry and science involved, meaning that any new perfume product I encounter I view through the lense of a fairly substantial product knowledge. Anyone aiming this new product at me and other consumers like me will have less trouble manipulating me if their product claims and marketing are more honest, certainly, but if their claims are spurious they'll find it difficult to market a product to me and others like me.

Don't try to sell me a two hundred euro perfume claiming to have Purple Gardenia, Golden Lily of the Valley and Sandalwood oil in it, and explain instead that you use an actual aroma chemical like Indole, perhaps explain the rest of the formula, and tell me which Perfumier designed it and under what circumstances and when, and perhaps even which perfume houses turned down the formula before this one took it up, and how many times it was reformulated after being panel tested, tell me all this and make it independently verifiable and maybe we can begin to talk about me purchasing it. If that makes me easier to manipulate than the consumer who buys a mascara because some old slag off Desperate Housewives is in the TV advert for it then so be it. :smile:

 

[sbat]

I think I see where you're coming from hilaire.

But I'm afraid that from a marketer's (marketeer's?) perspective, your manipulability is what makes you stupid. If you're willing to buy this New York bridge I have for sale, that makes my job easier. But if you want stats, studies, and certifications, I can fake those for you too. Have you ever bought anything certified Organic? The popular understanding of organic and what it takes to actually get certified would be very disappointing for you if you actually knew. Clinical studies by Big Pharma can almost be assumed fixed. Ever bought a drink after reading that it was 0 calorie? In the US, companies have a good deal of flexibility about what quantities actually qualify as "0."

Because you see, making buyers feel clever for fact checking is a strategy in and of itself. And feeding you bs statistics and numbers from shoddily prepared studies - for an actual scientist - is just as bad as showing an advert with fake eyelashes.

I wasn't being snarky. Everything thrown at you via marketing is done with pure contempt for your intelligence. But by making you feel that your intelligence is being catered to (as the highly educated, and generally higher earners like) makes you spend more liberally - which is ultimately what they want.

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

I think I see where you're coming from hilaire.

But I'm afraid that from a marketer's (marketeer's?) perspective, your manipulability is what makes you stupid. If you're willing to buy this New York bridge I have for sale, that makes my job easier. But if you want stats, studies, and certifications, I can fake those for you too. Have you ever bought anything certified Organic? The popular understanding of organic and what it takes to actually get certified would be very disappointing for you if you actually knew. Clinical studies by Big Pharma can almost be assumed fixed. Ever bought a drink after reading that it was 0 calorie? In the US, companies have a good deal of flexibility about what quantities actually qualify as "0."

Because you see, making buyers feel clever for fact checking is a strategy in and of itself. And feeding you bs statistics and numbers from shoddily prepared studies - for an actual scientist - is just as bad as showing an advert with fake eyelashes.

I wasn't being snarky. Everything thrown at you via marketing is done with pure contempt for your intelligence. But by making you feel that your intelligence is being catered to (as the highly educated, and generally higher earners like) makes you spend more liberally - which is ultimately what they want.

Well two things arise from that, firstly trading standards legislation tends to be far stricter here in Europe which means I may be slightly more protected from outright fraud in some ways.

Buying organic is an evolving thing, regulations (here at least) regarding what may or may not be called organic are becoming stricter and in any case I wouldn't buy organic if it were more expensive than non-organic.

I agree with you about some pharmaceuticals studies (though again regulation is tighter in the EU), but I don't care too much about that as long as they do what they're designed to do, if a drug doesn't then one simply doesn't buy it again.

I've never bought anything claiming to be 0% calorie because I've always presumed if it was a marketing claim and if I wanted the thing in the first place I may as well just buy the full calorie version and just have a little less of it. :biggrin1:

But the second thing which arises from what you say is, as I said as long as the marketers are presuming I'm more intelligent and are going to greater lengths to manipulate me then my vanity is assuaged and I'll spend. It's the insult inherent in presuming the consumer isn't reasonably intelligent which annoys me really.

Now combine that with the way marketing messages have an overall socio-cultural effect and you have a cocktail which can be quite potent. It's this overall message, that women are clearly not regarded as intelligent consumers, and that they clearly need to be duped by carnival huckster chicanery in to feeling like fat ugly simpletons which irritates me. :tongue:

 

[Drifterwood]

and then shows her glammed up and smiling after having shat herself thin.

:haha:

And in the Men's corner we have.....................

Penis enlargement

 

[sbat]

I understand your irritation hillaire. Everyone wants to be respected.

My point is that most marketers assume that their consumers are stupid. Just like most contractors think their clients are stupid, and so on. If you think someone is stupid, and you want money out of them, you tend to be dishonest with them. If they fall for your lies, then its proof that - to a certain extent - they are stupid. Or just too lazy to think for themselves.

The fact that only tight regulation can prevent this type of marketing is all the proof you need that most consumers are too stupid/lazy to do their own fact checking and whose entire socio-cultural perspective can be shaped by the adverts they see. If we weren't so "stupid" we wouldn't need regulations banning certain types of advertising because no one would be fooled into buying the shitty products being advertised.

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

I understand your irritation hillaire. Everyone wants to be respected.

My point is that most marketers assume that their consumers are stupid. Just like most contractors think their clients are stupid, and so on. If you think someone is stupid, and you want money out of them, you tend to be dishonest with them. If they fall for your lies, then its proof that - to a certain extent - they are stupid. Or just too lazy to think for themselves.

The fact that only tight regulation can prevent this type of marketing is all the proof you need that most consumers are too stupid/lazy to do their own fact checking and whose entire socio-cultural perspective can be shaped by the adverts they see. If we weren't so "stupid" we wouldn't need regulations banning certain types of advertising because no one would be fooled into buying the shitty products being advertised.

Yeah I know, it's just how stupid they presume you are that's my complaint. I may be stupid enough to acquiesce to slick and highly tactical marketing which presumes I a vain a relatively foolish person with too much money but not for marketing which presumes I'm totally braindead. :biggrin1::biggrin1::biggrin1:

 

[sbat]

Well, let's put it this way - at least you're aware of what's going on:smile:

 

[dolfette]

:haha:

And in the Men's corner we have.....................

Penis enlargement

and stay hard for ten hour pills, containing nowt but sugar.
mail order nigerian brides who cost thousands but don't really exist.
steroids that promise perfect bods but fail to mention shrinking balls.

 

[Drifterwood]

and stay hard for ten hour pills, containing nowt but sugar.
mail order nigerian brides who cost thousands but don't really exist.
steroids that promise perfect bods but fail to mention shrinking balls.

Not to mention the ones that buy into the whole marriage thing.

 

[sbat]

Not to mention the ones that buy into the whole marriage thing.

Marriage...the gift that keeps on taking.

 

[londonhanger]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UDU8jm-3Sc

This tune struck a cord with me when I read this thread.

(I loved this group in the 90's,- I guess no one in the U.S would have heard of them)

 

[JDankens]

There are many stupid guy ads out there, but you have to realize that the vast majority of advertising is aimed towards women because women are more susceptible to advertising. It's a simple statistic to see that women, by-in-large, spend more on frivolous shit than men do, period. Yes, guys spend money on stupid shit also and yes the Axe ads are retarded. There's plenty of guys out there that waste money on stupid shit, then you have frugal bastards like me which are very non-sexy partially due to spending habits.

Pharmaceuticals, cosmetics, clothing, jewelery etc. Just watch advertisements and even guy ads are oriented towards attracting the opposite sex; it's always about women. Ads directed towards women are almost always about self-image. Advertisers attack women by going after their self-worth, contrary to men where they go after sex appeal (this argument can go either way sometimes).

Then there is pharmaceuticals, oh boy. Nearly every woman I know well is on some sort of medication because they feel they have some 'condition' that they need to take some sort of medication. Then they blindly take whatever medication is prescribed to them by their 'trusted' doctor. I've seen way too many women on anti-depressants, it's becoming a big problem.

Sorry, I know I shouldn't be here but I had to enter once I read the title. I'm not saying women are stupid, I would differ and say that the majority of women are smarter than men; however marketing companies know what they're doing...

edit: Most of you ladies here seem to have a pretty level head compared to most women I know...

 

[dolfette]

bollox.
it's just that our idea of frivolity differs from yours.
some people invest in flash cars, high tech gadgets, huge tv sets...other people invest in their own appearance. both are pretty daft in the terms of the big picture.

 

[sbat]

bollox.
it's just that our idea of frivolity differs from yours.
some people invest in flash cars, high tech gadgets, huge tv sets...other people invest in their own appearance. both are pretty daft in the terms of the big picture.

Forgot to mention porn.

Who buys porn these days when there is so much for free?

 

[dolfette]

Forgot to mention porn.

Who buys porn these days when there is so much for free?

true. men spend a fucking fortune on wantching a plastic blonde fake an orgasm.

 

[B_crackoff]

true. men spend a fucking fortune on wantching a plastic blonde fake an orgasm.

Stop talking about my wife like that!

 

[B_crackoff]

I understand your irritation hillaire. Everyone wants to be respected.

My point is that most marketers assume that their consumers are stupid. Just like most contractors think their clients are stupid, and so on. If you think someone is stupid, and you want money out of them, you tend to be dishonest with them. If they fall for your lies, then its proof that - to a certain extent - they are stupid. Or just too lazy to think for themselves.

The fact that only tight regulation can prevent this type of marketing is all the proof you need that most consumers are too stupid/lazy to do their own fact checking and whose entire socio-cultural perspective can be shaped by the adverts they see. If we weren't so "stupid" we wouldn't need regulations banning certain types of advertising because no one would be fooled into buying the shitty products being advertised.

Wow, I guess no one works in marketing then? Some points in this thread are a little cruel, & wide of the mark! LOOK at the end of this post!

Every business HAS to market itself. It has to compete with others offering basically the same product or service.

Ever read a menu? It's the description that draws a lot of people in. The smell of something, the descriptive use of words(oral or written) or images, are there to give us an understanding of the providers aims, & have to be communicated optimally in order to succeed, by appealing to innate desires or aspirations.

Any new or small market entrant, has to deal with concepts & choices that are already entrenched in peoples minds. Without marketing, we'd all be eating the same food, wearing the same clothes, & driving outdated cars. This may be ecologically beneficial, but in terms of technological & scientific progress, it is not. Not allowing new entrants or technologies certainly helped the fall of the Roman Empire.

Therefore we have innovative marketing - humour, abstract, & (borderline) provocative/offensive - (which my brother specializes in, & I have occasionally conceptualized & written straplines for!).

Most women have a grazing attitude to shopping, & also enjoy the tactile experience of shopping.

No advertising - very little TV, very little internet. Has anyone seen Ricky Gervais' film "The Invention of Lying"?
?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhtTU-guW60

Enough said!