Social nudity

uncontrolled

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LPSG has all kinds of threads on locker rooms. Spycam pics, vents about gym creeps, rants about towel dancing--locker rooms are a complicated subject in the post-gay-revolution world, because it's the one remaining place in the average Joe's life where the once-common practice of social nudity continues on. I'm starting this thread to discuss social nudity, and I'll begin by telling my story. The story is long, so I'll break it into three parts: thesis, antithesis, and metathesis.

About me: I'm 29, Bi, and atheist. I've been that guy who changes in the bathroom stalls of locker rooms. I've also been the type of guy who takes a week-long vacation at a nudist resort. And, as much as it pains me to admit it, I've also been a cruisey locker room creep.


Thesis: Innocence :)

I went to BYU, the infamous Mormon university, and when I started there, I was a devout believer. That didn't stop me from exploring other philosophies, though. One day, I heard about some hot springs not too far from campus, and I checked them out. When I arrived, I found that I had the place to myself. I chose a shallow pool by the waterfall. The water was warm and relaxing, and the scenery was eden-like (for Utah). After twenty minutes of unbroken isolation, curiosity overwhelmed me: what would it be like to soak in this pool naked? I took off my trunks. It felt amazing! The warm water enveloped my body, pulled out all my tension and anxiety, and lulled me into a deep peace.

"Hello."

I sat up, alarmed to be seen. A man and two women were walking up to the pool. "Oh, shit!" I thought. "They're gonna call the cops! Or worse, *laugh* at me!!!" No such thing happened. They nonchalantly disrobed and got in the pool. We had an enjoyable conversation. They had met on the trail up to the springs. One was a former Evangelist, one a not-so-devout Mormon, and the third had never been religious. We told our stories, shared some jokes, and in general enjoyed each other's company. After a while, I got out, dressed, and took my leave. Mulling over the experience, I settled on three points:

1) Nudity is not sex.

The two women were gorgeous enough (and the man was hung enough) to be porn stars. I myself was in great shape, six-pack and all. However, nobody was sexually aroused by anyone else's nudity. If arousal isn't a result of visual stimulation, what is it a result of?

2) The human body is beautiful

Once I stopped seeing it as one big erogenous zone, I began to appreciate the true nobility and natural grace of the human figure. I could see why it had been depicted in countless paintings and photographs. The human body is the paragon of beauty.

3) Naked people are awesome

These nudists impressed me with their unpretentious manner. Where my church friends fought to maintain a facade, my new friends were open and honest about what they believed and wanted. It made it easy for me to be open and honest. It was refreshing and socially fulfilling.

I returned to the hot springs as often as I could. I rarely ran into the same people twice, but most of the people I met were naked, were unbothered by my nudity, and exemplified all three of the points listed above. Not everyone was as gorgeous as those first two women, but everyone was treated with respect. The time I spent with them did wonders for me psychologically, helping me deal with the social anxiety that plagues many 20-somethings and exposing me to mind-broadening perspectives.

With new-found confidence, I confronted a fear that had paralyzed me for years: swimming. I didn't know how to swim, was terrified of the water, and had been too ashamed to be seen shirtless. I resolved to change all that. I signed up for a swimming class at BYU, and I learned how to swim. The class was 10 minutes shorter than the typical class, so that we'd have time to shower. Day one, we funneled into the locker room after class and got in the showers with our swim trunks on. The showers were 4 posts spaced every 8 feet, each with 6 shower heads. We showered quietly and awkwardly at first, and I thought "Hell, no!" and dropped my trunks. Nobody said anything about it, but soon, everyone else was dropping their trunks. Within a couple minutes, we were all naked, chatting, and bonding on the level I mentioned in #3 above. This became the after-class norm, and it led to meaningful friendships and even research opportunities as people made connections with other students in their fields. On one occasion, one swimmer got a boner, but nobody freaked out or said anything about it.

In these experiences, I cultivated a deep respect for the human body and an appreciation for the important bond that comes from social nudity. But then, that was a rather innocent and naive time, and it soon changed.
 

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Antithesis: Experience :oops:

At the time of the swim class, I was still a virgin, and I was angry, frustrated, and hurt about it. I was smart enough to know that the girls at BYU only pretended to follow the Mormon church's edicts about waiting until marriage, but I couldn't find anyone to give me a chance. At the same time, the church's hold on my mind and identity was slipping. I had been raised to see my closeted attraction to men as an addiction or spiritual malady. I know now that I've always been bi, but at that time I identified as a straight man with a "problem" that I just needed to repent of. With faith, the LORD would heal me. Thing is, it was getting harder and harder (a-hem) to ignore just how *good* it felt to look up a guy's profile pics on LPSG, and the church's stance on sex and sexuality was making less and less sense.

I started camming on the LPSG chat service. I liked it. I hated that I liked it. I felt curious and guilty, fulfilled and soiled. Every day, I'd wake to a feeling of rot in my heart. I wanted more. This confusion came to a tipping point when I met M on the LPSG chat. He had a body the gods would envy and a cock to satisfy the most demanding of lusts. Impossibly, he was into me. More impossibly, he lived 40 minutes away. We agreed to hook up after my physics class the next day. During that class, I met J, a gorgeous girl who, impossibly, was interested in me. The last thing I did before going to M's was ask J out, and she said yes.

This put a new kind of smile on my face. I felt like I was breaking the rules by pursuing men and women alike. I also felt like myself for the first time ever.

I could go into detail about M and my first time with a man. I could also go into detail about J and how she broke my heart. But this story is long enough without the tangents. The point is, a new routine was set into motion. I became Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Homo. I pursued women by day and men by night. Both versions of myself felt like a lie, an incomplete truth. Both pursuits felt right. I became familiar with BYU's homosexual underground. I became degenerate, at one point hooking up with a different guy almost every night. I cruised guys at the gym. I told myself that I was "sexually liberated," but I still hated myself for my "abominations before God". I despaired, believing there was nobody who could ever accept both of my halves. I didn't know if I'd taken my mask off or found a second one.

I was the creep the other threads in this forum complain about. If you were changing in the locker room, I found a way to see your dick. I never stopped to think about how this might make you feel. I'm sorry.

At one point, this happened. For a long time, I revelled in my sexual aggression, my ability to seduce and please and get what I wanted. The meaningful bond of social nudity was completely lost to me. I was breaking people's trust and validating the fear and shame that prevented that bond from ever having a chance.

It was a time of sexual discovery, wrapped in confusion, despair and self-loathing. I was suicidal. But eventually, I found my way out.
 

uncontrolled

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Metathesis: Questions :D

My life was spiraling out of control, and I knew it. Nothing was helping, so I contemplated the unthinkable: maybe, just maybe, my church is making this worse. I decided to take a break from all religious activity. The despair and anger lessened. I took a second look at the religion and realized, "Wait, this is all complete bullshit!" I left the church. My promiscuity slowed to a trickle. Eventually, the word "Bisexual" entered my mind and made sense. I came out as bi. The promiscuity stopped (well. . . mostly ;) ). I began to develop real friendships with people who accepted my "unacceptable" truth. They told me their stories about the pain that they carry. We all have something.

I gained a lot of weight during the previous chapter (eating my feelings). I'm working on losing it. I'm 13 pounds down so far. Cleaning up my diet, getting back to the gym. And using the locker room. It's different for me, now. I recognize the games the cruisey creeps play, and I'm tempted to join them, but I now know better. I have nothing against the activities of consenting adults. I enjoy the games these guys are looking to play. But that's not what I want in my gym. I want to create an atmosphere of comfort, respect, and openness--the things that turn social nudity into a positive social experience. I'm not looking to regain the innocence I had in the first chapter. Sexual attraction should be a positive aspect of life, not something to hide or ignore. If a man finds another man attractive, he should be free to say so, and the other man should be equally free to reciprocate or reject him. They shouldn't be afraid of each other. They won't be if an attitude of honesty and respect prevails.

So how do I make this happen? How do I get these religious types to loosen up (in the case of the towel dancers) or shape up (in the case of the creeps)? Most people seem intent on ignoring the existence of anyone they didn't come with. That frostiness detracts from the ideal atmosphere. How do I break the ice?
 

moonlightnbg

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First of all, I would like to thank you for your very well written, intelligent and personal contribution. Whilst reading, it was like taking a trip through my own development - there are great similarities between your "vita" and mine.

I grew up in South Africa, which has the typically conservative anglo-american view on communal nudity as other English speaking countries do. I now live in Germany, which like most central European countries, has a very relaxed view on casual/communal nudity. Coming from a religious background, changing from the one mindset to the other was a challenge for me. I had to serve in the German army and I can remember how I was terrified of having to shower with an entire troop of men; my very first experience in being naked in front of others. It was not a voluntary development. 30 guys, 6 shower heads and 15 minutes to get showered and dressed after sport. We were instructed to strip down and line up in five-man rows, jumping under the shower and soaping up one after the other. And no wearing undies under the shower - full nudity was compulsory for "physical hygiene" (as were also instructed by our commanding officer to pull back our foreskins and clean there as well :p). It really was the hardest method of confrontation therapy I could have had - but it certainly helped in overcoming my fear of being naked amongst others. Since then, I have come to embrace social nudity as something wonderful and especially amongst men as a very real form of male bonding. I fully understand your antithesis: after "discovering" communal nudity I too went overboard and became somewhat of a gym creep. Maybe it's part of the development in moving from one mindset to another; but like you I have also moved on from there.

When I say that the central Europeans have a casual view on nudity, then this is in general. It does not apply to all people living on the continent. Going to a public sauna with friends is as common as going out for a beer. I have seen at least 80 % of my friends naked; either in the sauna or while swimming. But there are those friends who just don't want to do that - and I respect those boundaries. You asked how can you bring others to embrace social nudity as something natural which does not automatically have a sexual dimension. I believe you won't be able to get everybody on to that line. There will always be towel dancers and there will always be gym creeps. Getting them all to see social nudity the way you and I do would be like an art lover trying to get everybody to appreciate abstract art; you can reach some but not all. If anything, you can go ahead by setting a good example. Showing others how comfortable you are with your body and being naked in front of others. That might just inspire a towel dancer to take the plunge and finally drop the towel. And maybe just give the creep a friendly wink and tell him that you are under the shower for the sake of showering. And then just carry on enjoying nudity the way it should be!
 

AdamFin

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First of all, I would like to thank you for your very well written, intelligent and personal contribution. Whilst reading, it was like taking a trip through my own development - there are great similarities between your "vita" and mine.

I grew up in South Africa, which has the typically conservative anglo-american view on communal nudity as other English speaking countries do. I now live in Germany, which like most central European countries, has a very relaxed view on casual/communal nudity. Coming from a religious background, changing from the one mindset to the other was a challenge for me. I had to serve in the German army and I can remember how I was terrified of having to shower with an entire troop of men; my very first experience in being naked in front of others. It was not a voluntary development. 30 guys, 6 shower heads and 15 minutes to get showered and dressed after sport. We were instructed to strip down and line up in five-man rows, jumping under the shower and soaping up one after the other. And no wearing undies under the shower - full nudity was compulsory for "physical hygiene" (as were also instructed by our commanding officer to pull back our foreskins and clean there as well :p). It really was the hardest method of confrontation therapy I could have had - but it certainly helped in overcoming my fear of being naked amongst others. Since then, I have come to embrace social nudity as something wonderful and especially amongst men as a very real form of male bonding. I fully understand your antithesis: after "discovering" communal nudity I too went overboard and became somewhat of a gym creep. Maybe it's part of the development in moving from one mindset to another; but like you I have also moved on from there.

When I say that the central Europeans have a casual view on nudity, then this is in general. It does not apply to all people living on the continent. Going to a public sauna with friends is as common as going out for a beer. I have seen at least 80 % of my friends naked; either in the sauna or while swimming. But there are those friends who just don't want to do that - and I respect those boundaries. You asked how can you bring others to embrace social nudity as something natural which does not automatically have a sexual dimension. I believe you won't be able to get everybody on to that line. There will always be towel dancers and there will always be gym creeps. Getting them all to see social nudity the way you and I do would be like an art lover trying to get everybody to appreciate abstract art; you can reach some but not all. If anything, you can go ahead by setting a good example. Showing others how comfortable you are with your body and being naked in front of others. That might just inspire a towel dancer to take the plunge and finally drop the towel. And maybe just give the creep a friendly wink and tell him that you are under the shower for the sake of showering. And then just carry on enjoying nudity the way it should be!

The good example comment is key. If you behave nude-normal it will generally inspire others to as well. Especially in a situation where somebody has to go first. Take off your trunks, others follow. Go naked in sauna, others will. Take a shower in a gym where most do not, more will. Leave the curtain open to chat, more will. Weigh in naked... Maybe even shave naked...(I still don't do this at my regular gym cause nobody does but I will when traveling if I see another guy doing so).

In one gym I attended I always closed curtain cause I figured it was kinda required. After going a few times I noticed a guy not pull the curtain, he maintained a conversation w another guy who was directly opposite. So when I walked in I did not draw curtain, and have not since. I followed an example and became one.

I have no tolerance for creeps or sexual behavior in the locker room / showers. It's easy to prevent. If you don't do it you won't likely see it and indeed you will prevent it. The creeps need each other and to be alone to do anything more than look (leering is easily confronted), so any one guy in the room who is not a creep-perv will typically prevent any crap from happening.

As others have noted: anti perving is a virtue of open showers, a locker room without nooks and crannies and a sauna / steam with big windows into common areas. No privacy means less perving because they can't hide -- so they take sex or j/o or mutual showing off somewhere more appropriate. I'm not bothered by guys wanting to meet to do that stuff; I'm bothered when they opt for an inappropriate venue. Locker rooms and showers are inappropriate venues.
 

ItsAll4Kim

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Be the change you wish to see. Simple as that. You can't make anyone do anything but you can be an example.
Very apt, very true. When we talk with new nudists, the topic often comes around to what I'll call evangelism...talking up nudism with folks who aren't nudists.

I won't do this. Nudism/modesty is extremely personal. We encounter a LOT of folks at clothing optional resorts who are frequent or regulars to such places for vacation, but adamantly deny being "nudists". I suspect the stigma of nudism is parallel to the stigma of homosexuality....both are social outliers, both are judged harshly by many. So again, I won't ever push someone to try social nudism. I will honestly address any curiosity one might have, both pro and con. I will not invite someone to a resort/campground...they are public and anyone can inquire freely. And I won't chat it up endlessly, or start the conversation.

I try to be a "good" nudist. There's a lot to it so I won't delve there. But as you wrote, if I lead by setting a good example and am a positive role model, that's about all I can be.
 
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Sailingbear

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I went to my first nudist resort last week. Took years to get the balls to do it, but had work in the area and took motor home. I found they were rated high and cost less than some of the others rv parks. It was so different than I had expected. Very casual, friendly people, reserved is a good word for it. The best part was running nude. They have trails through the woods and all I had on were my running shoes. What a feeling of freedom. Finished the run and took an outdoor shower, then swam a few laps. I plan to go back this week.