Socialism Envy

Discussion in 'Politics' started by D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse, May 7, 2009.

  1. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,539
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ok. I'm starting off my morning scouting the political sites, coffee in hand, to see what's happening in my country. I click onto Politico.com, Real Clear Politics, ABC News, the conservative Townhall, the liberal Huffington Post....

    And on MSNBC this is the featured story:

    In Europe, social safety net softens the slump

    Aid for unemployment, health care and further education cushions blow

    --------------------

    Listen. Hear that noise? We can practically hear the facekings and Trinitys and Wyldgusechazs and starinvestors of the site circling their wagons around the idea of The Supremacy of American Capitalism. Capitalism is the ONLY way, they'll tell us! -- I believe a few have even equated socialism with "pinko communism", Marxism, Stalinism, Leninism, Maoism, and whatever other unpleasant-sounding -ism is out there.

    --------------------

    The article tells us that the German state of Baden-Wuerttemberg, where the auto industry has been hit especially hard because of the economic crisis — this is the home of Mercedes-Benz — things are tougher than they have been in decades. Unemployment is up 70 percent and many employees have been forced to cut down their hours.

    The story focuses on the Fuerstenberger family. Quality of living has not changed very much for Jan and Sarah Fuerstenberger and their four children despite the fact that neither parent is currently working.

    “If we were in Detroit, we could worry every minute,” said Sarah Fuerstenberger, 37. “But here, we’re safe because of the system. The German government is really good about taking care of people; we know we won’t be starving one way or another."


    In Germany, and across most of western Europe, the government provides safety nets that include:

    * generous unemployment checks

    * universal healthcare

    * inexpensive university education


    In the midst of recession, “I hadn’t even thought of the word ‘recession,’” said Sarah, a Detroit native who has lived in Germany on and off since college.

    In Europe, social safety net softens the slump - Europe- msnbc.com
     
  2. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,539
    Likes Received:
    1
    Obama's healthcare plan:

    Expanding eligibility for existing public programs, including Medicaid and the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP);

    Creating a National Health Insurance Exchange to serve as a federal regulator of private insurance plans that would compete alongside a new National Health Plan;

    Providing income-related subsidies for those without employer-sponsored health insurance while mandating that children have coverage; and

    Requiring that medium and large employers provide coverage or pay a tax, while extending tax credits to small businesses and creating a government reinsurance program to cover businesses' catastrophic health costs

    --------------------

    The republican healthcare plan:

    Don't get sick.
     
  3. javyn

    javyn New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2008
    Messages:
    1,031
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    If you really want to make people go crazy, check out "economic democracy" or "free market socialism". Public ownership of heavy industry (commanding heights of an economy like airline, rail, banking, etc), but with a free market system placed on top to efficiently determine prices based on supply and demand levels, circumventing the shortage problems the Soviets faced in their centrally planned economy. Of course, personal property, intellectual property, small businesses would still be privately owned. But the large industry, the corporations who use the resources of this country that don't pay for it anyway, that would be socialized.
     
    #3 javyn, May 7, 2009
    Last edited: May 7, 2009
  4. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    11,912
    Likes Received:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    New York City, by way of Marblehead, Boston and Ge
    "...the facekings and Trinitys and Wyldgusechazs and starinvestors of the site..."

    Will, what is the sound of panties twisting?
     
  5. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,539
    Likes Received:
    1
    Nick8 question:

    Will, what is the sound of panties twisting?

    --------------------

    Answer: Uh... faceking reading Obama's latest presidential approval rating numbers??

    Wildgusechaz watching the GOP brand fall apart as Mitt Romney and John McCain and Bobby Jindal launch a "listening tour"?

    Trinity helplessly standing by as Palin drifts further into presidential unelectablity??????

    Starinvestor watching the economy slowly recover, the housing market stabilize, as Obama's stimulus plans kick in?
     
  6. Hockeytiger

    Hockeytiger Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    680
    Likes Received:
    82
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Midwestern US
    Of course a more socialist economy provides a softer landing for its people, that's the whole point and it is undeniable. It is a great selling point. However, the consequence is that it generally takes longer for such economies to recover and rarely reach the levels of growth that more capitalist economies do. Those are the tradeoffs in each system.
     
  7. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    11,912
    Likes Received:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    New York City, by way of Marblehead, Boston and Ge
    Ah. So you know a good onomatopoeia when you hear one. Why am I not surprised?
     
  8. Industrialsize

    Staff Member Moderator Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2006
    Messages:
    24,279
    Albums:
    2
    Likes Received:
    2,113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    United States
    I think the Europeans have it RIGHT.
     
  9. sargon20

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    11,369
    Likes Received:
    2,099
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Atlantis

    Maybe so BUT when you canvas the notion what nations are happiest, it isn't America. It's those Western European countries certain people love to make fun of. And life is all about happiness not having the biggest McMansion or SUV. The consumrism that is American culture is a fraud. It pretends to offer happiness through more and more goods and in the end it's no happiness at all. People, friendships, relationships is what bring people happiness. Just watch Citizen Kane the personification of the American lifestyle.
     
  10. Drifterwood

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Messages:
    15,724
    Likes Received:
    386
    Location:
    Fingringhoe (GB)
    I said this in October :rolleyes:.
     
  11. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,409
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Midwest
    Willtom:

    Do you scavenge the earth for the most comfortable and satisfactory economic living conditions during an economic recovery?

    Or only at the bottom of the worst economic recession in the last 80 years?

    The fundamental problem with a more socialist environment...is that not everybody has dreams of mediocrity. Some strive for something greater. Some seek to make a difference...not just stand around with a hand out; and or wallow when things get tough.

    Facing adversity is not a challenge that the proponents of socialism care to consider. Creating a uniform type-income environment, which Sargon fantasizes about, will eliminate the advances and breakthroughs that our forefathers and ancestors have built through decades of sweat, perseverance and dedication.

    And since we haven't succumbed to the temptations of socialism since our formation...and have persevered through both good and bad economic cycles...we have been rewarded; and have prevailed as the most healthy economic nation on earth...which has also provided us with the greatest advances in medicine, technology, military, etc. etc.

    For those that seek nothing more than mediocrity, socialism is indeed a paradise.

    Those that lead our nation, advance our nation, provide jobs, medicine and the rest...they aren't the slightest bit interested in socialism.

    And that will never change.
     
  12. D_Davy_Downspout

    D_Davy_Downspout Account Disabled

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2004
    Messages:
    1,144
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes, Europe is certainly a gray featureless land mediocrity where nobody ever excels and everyone gets paid the same.

    You have no idea what socialism is, do you?
     
  13. B_4inches

    B_4inches New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2005
    Messages:
    306
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    South east Idaho
    Actually its:

    Just say no to sickness.
     
  14. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2006
    Messages:
    4,409
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Midwest

    Europe...

    everyone gets paid exactly the same - no.

    land of mediocrity - yeah, kinda.

    Not sayin that's bad, just not for us.
     
  15. midlifebear

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    5,908
    Likes Received:
    11
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Nevada, Buenos Aires, and Barçelona
    What I miss most about working in one of them thar "socialist" you are a peein' cun trees is the whole month of August off for vacation -- paid! But then, I have most months of the year off these days -- paid! LOL!

    It's so nice not having to worry about whether I'll have any money in a KEOGH or 401K when I retire at 65. Everyone in the US of AY! keeps saying how much worse things are in Europe. There's a bit more inflation than expected, but one Euro buys a Hell of a lot more in the morning than one Dollar. And as long as I can remember, back when Spain adopted the Euro, one Euro always has bought more -- even when it was 67 cents and a Dollar was 100 cents. Where in the USA can you buy an espresso or cafe o lait, croissant, and the daily paper for One All Might Buck?
     
  16. Drifterwood

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Messages:
    15,724
    Likes Received:
    386
    Location:
    Fingringhoe (GB)
    Please expand. I promise to read every word.
     
  17. B_4inches

    B_4inches New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2005
    Messages:
    306
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    South east Idaho
    The bigotry inherent in this statement is staggering.
     
  18. Drifterwood

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Messages:
    15,724
    Likes Received:
    386
    Location:
    Fingringhoe (GB)
    Come on star, I can't wait to hear why a Mercedes S Class is so mediocre compared to a Cadillac, why you can't have a Christmas without the cheap Chinese shit that you order, why Boeings keep falling out of the sky, why your Banks stride the global markets, the $ carries all before, how MacDonalds and KFC have so advanced the human culinary experience. Please I want to know about mediocrity.
     
    #18 Drifterwood, May 8, 2009
    Last edited: May 8, 2009
  19. dong20

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2006
    Messages:
    6,130
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    The grey country
    Or how a fine Brie compares to whatever that is that passes for cheese in the US .... (I hesitated in calling it cheese).:wink:
     
  20. Drifterwood

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Messages:
    15,724
    Likes Received:
    386
    Location:
    Fingringhoe (GB)
    You don't even have to go to a B de Meaux. Pasteurise the milk, ruin the cheese.

    What wine or Port should we have with our cheese, D? Perhaps a mediocre Pomerol or Taylors '63?
     
Draft saved Draft deleted