Socialism Envy

[Bbucko]

We can save Miami, right? They do have great clubs and 24 hour liquor licenses. :biggrin1:

Just the beach, sweetheart :wink: The rest of Miami is Detroit-on-the-bay with a coupla palm trees.

 

[dong20]

great to see the leftists on the board revealing their true stripes, and admitting their Euro-socialist leanings

Cheese and wine are the sole preserve of Euro-socialism? Who knew.

What about trains ... and music ... art ... science, those too?

At least you have your sport to fall back on. Nick, it must really hurt to be you.

 

[Bbucko]

Cheese and wine are the sole preserve of Euro-socialism? Who knew.

What about trains ... and music ... art ... science, those too?

At least you have your sport to fall back on. Nick, it must really hurt to be you.

Yeah, 'cause Les Dieux Du Stade are such mediocre athletes.

 

[ZOS23xy]

and StarInvestor is back to altering the subject by bringing something totally non related to what was asked or answered to...typical...

 

[Flashy]

The rest of Miami is Detroit-on-the-bay with a coupla palm trees.

is it really that bad Bb?

i am just curious...i have been twice in the last two years, and granted i stayed in two different places that were unlikely to be "Detroit Like" (Coral Gables Biltmore and Fisher Island) but i was under the impression that it was as close to paradise as you can get for a large american city with a huge metropolitan area.

I was only there for about 8 days combined and i know that the north has some areas that are not so nice, but is it really that bad all over?

please provide some info, if you can...i am interested. thanks

 

[B_starinvestor]

is it really that bad Bb?

i am just curious...i have been twice in the last two years, and granted i stayed in two different places that were unlikely to be "Detroit Like" (Coral Gables Biltmore and Fisher Island) but i was under the impression that it was as close to paradise as you can get for a large american city with a huge metropolitan area.

I was only there for about 8 days combined and i know that the north has some areas that are not so nice, but is it really that bad all over?

please provide some info, if you can...i am interested. thanks

I used to spend time in Miami 2 or 3 times every year for several years, and its so nasty I don't even set foot down there anymore. Lauderdale is 10X nicer with 1% of the crime and just a quick jont down the intercoastal.

The murder rate is real bad, and the affluent are moving out of there in droves.

Miami Crime Statistics and Crime Data (Miami, FL)

 

[Flashy]

I used to spend time in Miami 2 or 3 times every year for several years, and its so nasty I don't even set foot down there anymore. Lauderdale is 10X nicer with 1% of the crime and just a quick jont down the intercoastal.

The murder rate is real bad, and the affluent are moving out of there in droves.

Miami Crime Statistics and Crime Data (Miami, FL)

interesting...when i as there, Coral gables was really nice, and Fisher Island is wonderful...the South Beach Area, all the way up north, and all the artificial islands connected to it seemed great...

So iam assuming the problems are across from peninsula that is Miami Beach, on the mainland area?

I have spent time in Jupiter and Hobe Sound, which of course is great, but i was under the impression that Miami Beach/South Beach Peninsula was great from my time there

 

[Bbucko]

Miami Beach is a separate municipality from Miami: totally different government, police, everything. Fisher Island is the very definition of an enclave, as it is completely inaccessible except by boat or aircraft. There is a world of difference between Coral Gables the district (which has its nicer parts and its nasty side) and the resort complex called Coral Gables Biltmore. I've done "the tour" of Coral Gables: it's no Palm Beach or Brookline (MA), that's for sure. My overriding impression was that everything was a little long-in-the-tooth and in need of some youth (always in short supply down here) to wake everyone up.

I remember when Coconut Grove had a cool, artsy, bohemian vibe, but that was 15 years ago: with the desirability came huge increases in property values that effectively drove all the artists/bohemians away, and the Real Estate crash has been especially cruel to that part of town.

Miami Beach still has its cool, for sure. But the unique mix of Eurohipsters and fags is long gone. I still have fond memories of vacations spent there 10-15 years ago, but the current reality on the ground is quite different. The Russian Mafia had a lot to do with it, truth be told: it's now kinda hip-hop/Jersey Shore Chic/Estonian hooker. If that's your scene, you'll LOVE it: overwise, not so much.

But the vast majority of Miami-Dade is just simply retched. It has no real street scene (except for a small part of Calle Ocho and parts of South Beach) as there is virtually no public transport whatsoever. As with most South Florida, it's nothing but 1200 sq-ft houses and strip malls with no zoning, so you have lumber yards next to churches next to laundrymats next to gay bars next to schools next to car dealerships. Virtually none of the urbanistic values that make cities livable are present in SoFla, except for a few very special enclaves.

Palm Beach is so wealthy that it only is exactly what it is, and cannot be compared to anything except, perhaps, Beverly Hills/Brentwood/Bel Aire. And although you can easily find a Chanel bag or an Adolfo lady's suit on Worth Ave, you cannot buy a pack of gum or a bottle of coke. The restaurants there are sub-standard in everything but price: even the service is indifferent.

Jupiter is its own world, just like Wellington (where they play Polo) and Singer Island (where my father lives), but most of it is just scruffy/run down beach town, even when it's miles from the ocean.

 

[Flashy]

Miami Beach is a separate municipality from Miami: totally different government, police, everything. Fisher Island is the very definition of an enclave, as it is completely inaccessible except by boat or aircraft. There is a world of difference between Coral Gables the district (which has its nicer parts and its nasty side) and the resort complex called Coral Gables Biltmore. I've done "the tour" of Coral Gables: it's no Palm Beach or Brookline (MA), that's for sure. My overriding impression was that everything was a little long-in-the-tooth and in need of some youth (always in short supply down here) to wake everyone up.

I remember when Coconut Grove had a cool, artsy, bohemian vibe, but that was 15 years ago: with the desirability came huge increases in property values that effectively drove all the artists/bohemians away, and the Real Estate crash has been especially cruel to that part of town.

Miami Beach still has its cool, for sure. But the unique mix of Eurohipsters and fags is long gone. I still have fond memories of vacations spent there 10-15 years ago, but the current reality on the ground is quite different. The Russian Mafia had a lot to do with it, truth be told: it's now kinda hip-hop/Jersey Shore Chic/Estonian hooker. If that's your scene, you'll LOVE it: overwise, not so much.

But the vast majority of Miami-Dade is just simply retched. It has no real street scene (except for a small part of Calle Ocho and parts of South Beach) as there is virtually no public transport whatsoever. As with most South Florida, it's nothing but 1200 sq-ft houses and strip malls with no zoning, so you have lumber yards next to churches next to laundrymats next to gay bars next to schools next to car dealerships. Virtually none of the urbanistic values that make cities livable are present in SoFla, except for a few very special enclaves.

Palm Beach is so wealthy that it only is exactly what it is, and cannot be compared to anything except, perhaps, Beverly Hills/Brentwood/Bel Aire. And although you can easily find a Chanel bag or an Adolfo lady's suit on Worth Ave, you cannot buy a pack of gum or a bottle of coke. The restaurants there are sub-standard in everything but price: even the service is indifferent.

Jupiter is its own world, just like Wellington (where they play Polo) and Singer Island (where my father lives), but most of it is just scruffy/run down beach town, even when it's miles from the ocean.

Interesting Info...thanks for that...I spent a lot of time in Florida back when i was a youngster in the late 70s and early 80s because i had family down there, My Aunt in Palm BEach, and grandparents and cousins in Jupiter/Hobe Sound...

then i did not return again until a couple years ago...

my parents have just bought a place on Fisher Island, so they will be spending a large part of the winters down there, while spending spring, fall and summers up here...they had been going down there for a few years, and finally could no longer resist.

It is really nice, but i find Fisher Island really boring in my brief time there.

When i stayed at the Biltmore the two times, admittedly i did not get out into the Coral Gables area much, so i was confined probably in the best area with little exploring.

I enjoy Jupiter and Palm BEach alot, but it is not much different to me then the Hamptons are, and i prefer the Hamptons much more.

Is that scene that you referred to, "hip hop/jersey shore chic" in South Beach or Miami Beach as a whole?

I just did not get a chance to check out much when i was there...the couple of times, but with my folks buying a place down there, i expect i will go more often...i do not really care much about nightlife anymore, but as long as the town still has some good restaurants and relatively cool bars, i do not need much of the club scene....I just hope the place isn't like Guido central. :wink:

I did drive through what you referred to, and you are right, it was so random...highways, strip malls, etc. etc...it was really strange.

I have had good times in Jupiter the twice i have been, but i have always found Palm Beach exceptionally boring, especially staying with my aunt, who gets drunk at 10 AM and spends the rest of the day driving around in her Rolls, complaining about the waiters at the Breakers...

I did get a bit of a weird vibe when i was down there, like i was missing something, when i thought it was going to be so great in Miami...and it was just a bit "blah".

 

[sparky11point5]

Fellow travelers --
As much as I have enjoyed witnessing the punking of Star, you guys know he is from Kentucky, right? I mean the hills are beautiful, but many people there have six fingers and think Cincinnati is urbane. (Apparently, they also still listen to Asia albums <it was heeeeat of the moment ...>, but that is another thread altogether.) I don't think Paris, Boston, and other socialist bastions are exactly looking over their shoulders at Frankfort or Lexington.

 

[Flashy]

Fellow travelers --
As much as I have enjoyed witnessing the punking of Star, you guys know he is from Kentucky, right? I mean the hills are beautiful, but many people there have six fingers and think Cincinnati is urbane. (Apparently, they also still listen to Asia albums <it was heeeeat of the moment ...>, but that is another thread altogether.) I don't think Paris, Boston, and other socialist bastions are exactly looking over their shoulders at Frankfort or Lexington.

there is nothing really wrong with Kentucky, Sparky...I have been there three or four times in my life, and while there certainly are some rather "deliverance" type places, i have met lots of incredibly intelligent, and interesting and cultured people there, mostly connected with the thoroughbred industry...

 

[sparky11point5]

I was just poking fun, flashy.

Besides, I actually have some roots in the hills. Papa came walked out of the hills barefoot and with a 6th grade education. He later ran a series of bars. A product of a different time and place, Papa never allowed 'coloreds' into his businesses, unless it was at the back door to buy liquor. He also took payments in guns, from time to time. He was flawed, but I love him still.

Seriously, I think there are many parts of the world that are worthwhile. This is why I don't traffic much with the triumphalism about the American system. I have enjoyed everywhere I lived - Pennsylvania, San Diego, Boston, London, NYC. I think we all could learn a lot from Europe about how to care for our citizens, and they could learn from us about risk taking.

 

[B_starinvestor]

Fellow travelers --
As much as I have enjoyed witnessing the punking of Star, you guys know he is from Kentucky, right? I mean the hills are beautiful, but many people there have six fingers and think Cincinnati is urbane. (Apparently, they also still listen to Asia albums <it was heeeeat of the moment ...>, but that is another thread altogether.) I don't think Paris, Boston, and other socialist bastions are exactly looking over their shoulders at Frankfort or Lexington.

Heat of the Moment is my favorite song. It cranks throughout the neighborhood every time I have a pool party.:tongue:

Northern Ky is basically a suburb of Cincinnati; just lower property taxes and much better lots. In fact, the Greater Cincinnati Airport is actually in Kentucky.

That said, any trip to the local tracks (there's Turfway in northern ky and Riverbend in Cinti) or any of the local casinos (3 in southeast Indiana) and you will get a very healthy dose of Deliverence-style white trash.

However, most all businesses that move to the area are settling in Northern Kentucky for a variety of reasons, and it is my opinion that within the next 10 years that Cincinnati will be a suburb of Northern Kentucky.

....aren't many socialist/liberal/democrat type folk in these parts.:smile: Yippee!

 

[Flashy]

I was just poking fun, flashy.

Besides, I actually have some roots in the hills. Papa came walked out of the hills barefoot and with a 6th grade education. He later ran a series of bars. A product of a different time and place, Papa never allowed 'coloreds' into his businesses, unless it was at the back door to buy liquor. He also took payments in guns, from time to time. He was flawed, but I love him still.

Seriously, I think there are many parts of the world that are worthwhile. This is why I don't traffic much with the triumphalism about the American system. I have enjoyed everywhere I lived - Pennsylvania, San Diego, Boston, London, NYC. I think we all could learn a lot from Europe about how to care for our citizens, and they could learn from us about risk taking.

ah, i see...no problem :smile:

though i did not think you were actually attempting any serious insults, merely a bit of good natured poking. :wink:

though the horse country is really rather beautiful and having been to the Derby it is quite an event.

 

[B_Nick4444]

Cheese and wine are the sole preserve of Euro-socialism? Who knew.

What about trains ... and music ... art ... science, those too?

At least you have your sport to fall back on. Nick, it must really hurt to be you.

The strong race is strong on these terms. ... and by nothing more than their quality of personal independence, and, in its special modification, pecuniary independence. No reliance for bread and games on the government, no clanship, no patriarchal style of living by the revenues of a chief, no marrying-on, -- no system of clientship suits them; but every man must pay his scot.

The subject of economy mixes itself with morals, inasmuch as it is a peremptory point of virtue that a man's independence be secured. Poverty demoralizes. A man in debt is so far a slave; and Wall-street thinks it easy for a millionaire to be a man of his word, a man of honor, but, that, in failing circumstances, no man can be relied on to keep his integrity. And when one observes in the hotels and palaces of our Atlantic capitals, the habit of expense, the riot of the senses, the absence of bonds, clanship, fellow-feeling of any kind, he feels, that, when a man or a woman is driven to the wall, the chances of integrity are frightfully diminished, as if virtue were coming to be a luxury which few could afford, or, as Burke said, "at a market almost too high for humanity." He may fix his inventory of necessities and of enjoyments on what scale he pleases, but if he wishes the power and privilege of thought, the chalking out his own career, and having society on his own terms, he must bring his wants within his proper power to satisfy.

http://www.rwe.org/pages/Essays.htm

"Wealth", by Ralph Waldo Emerson

the greatest aim is the development of a man's character

as Emerson points out, that is intimately tied in with the meeting of one's needs

and character, is what I find lacking in that particular part of the world, under that particular economic system

we laugh at their "arts" (if they had any "sciences" worthy of that name, we'd laugh at those, too)

 

[Drifterwood]

as Emerson points out, that is intimately tied in with the meeting of one's needs

and character, is what I find lacking in that particular part of the world, under that particular economic system

we laugh at their "arts" (if they had any "sciences" worthy of that name, we'd laugh at those, too)

So you cling to some Nineteenth Century view of the world and that standard of manliness.

We decided to move on.

Our "socialism" is simply that we, who can, agree to pay for various safety nets for our fellow citizens when they need it. I personally consider this civilised rather than socialist.

Our Appalachian American friend's analogy to the PGA is exemplary "socialism". You can play all year, not win a tournament and earn millions, basically being a loser. Associations - people working together for their common good. Tiger needs them.

 

[vince]

we laugh at their "arts" (if they had any "sciences" worthy of that name, we'd laugh at those, too)

Hilarious. You ape their arts and pilfer their sciences and claim them as great American inventions. LOL

 

[B_Nick4444]

So you cling to some Nineteenth Century view of the world and that standard of manliness.

We decided to move on.

Our "socialism" is simply that we, who can, agree to pay for various safety nets for our fellow citizens when they need it. I personally consider this civilised rather than socialist.

yes, just as I cling to Eighteenth Century notions of the rights of man, the equality of man, etc.

Euros adopting socialism does not represent the same degradation of character that it would for Americans, given that the continentals have always been under some form of vassalage or other

it's part and parcel of their individual and cultural identities

unless Obama is successful in completely destroying the American character (that he has voiced such contempt for), for example, you will never see the collaboration that we saw in France during the German occupation

the point of the post, however, was that the ultimate aim of all governments and cultures should be the development of the best possible man, the best possible character, something recognizable (as Emerson's essay shows) as likely unachievable by men beholden to the socialist teat

socialism likely only produces contented cows, the passive creatures populating the future world envisioned by H.G. Wells in The Time Machine, whose every need is met by delivery by someone else

 

[B_Nick4444]

Hilarious. You ape their arts and pilfer their sciences and claim them as great American inventions. LOL

what color is the sky in that world?!?!

 

[pym]

what color is the sky in that world?!?!

Said the man in the RUBBER room.:nana::biglaugh: