Sodium Flouride?

[D_N Flay Table]

We have all read the back of toothpaste...
Haven't we?

The warning reads something like this:

Keep out of reach of children under 6 years of age. (ok)
If more than used for brushing is accidentally swallowed, get medical help or contact a Poison Control center right away.

Well....
It is also put into our water supply.
It is absorbed through drinking and though the skin.
Here is a map of its use.

File:Fluoridated-water-extent-world.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, this is what bothers me...

Here is the MSDS (Material safety data sheet) for Sodium Fluoride.

MSDS :: Sodium Fluoride


Here are some highlights:


May be fatal if inhaled, swallowed or absorbed thru the skin Avoid all contact. Use with adequate ventilation. Wash thoroughly after use. Keep container closed.

FIRST AID: CALL A PHYSICIAN. SKIN: In case of contact, immediately flush skin with water for at least 15 minutes while removing contaminated clothing and shoes. Thoroughly clean clothing and shoes before reuse.

EYES: Wash eyes with plenty of water for at least 15 minutes, lifting lids occasionally. Seek Medical Aid. INHALATION: Remove to fresh air. If not breathing, give artificial respiration. If breathing is difficult, give oxygen

INGESTION: If swallowed, induce vomiting immediately after giving two glasses of water. Never give anything by mouth to an unconscious person.


So,
What do you think?
Is this something we should be putting in our water supply?
I understand that the concentration is maybe 10ppm, but Fluoride doesn't leave the body.. So it can have a accumulative effect.

 

[D_Martin van Burden]

Courtesy of Wikipedia.

The amount of fluoride used to enrich our water supply in the United Supply is well below the toxicity threshold of parts per million. In the water fluoridation article, there are only three incidents of overfluorination. They all happened between 1991 and 1998; acute flouride poisoning called gastrointestinal distress and illness, and only one person died.

You checked the MSDS report for sodium flouride. Understand that this is the least used compound for water flouridation in the United States, constituting only 9% of use in the country by predominantly smaller water utility companies. 63% of utilities use fluorosilic acid and 28% use sodium flurosilicate. In advanced industrial countries such as the United States, the World Health Organization has dropped the fluoride threshold concentrations to between 0.5 and 1.0 ppm, not 10 as you suggested. The sickness and incidental death above occurred when fluoride concentrations reached a couple of hundred parts per million.

Furthermore, the MSDS sheet refers to the handling of crystalline sodium flouride. Like any other industrial chemical, its handlers have to take security and safety measures. Consider this. The sodium component that we all ingest in table salt has the capacity, if taken in its raw form, to explode if immersed in tap water. (That was how our chem professors in undergrad would introduce lab safety at the start of our 8:00 a.m. lab. Needless to say, we all woke up after seeing that.) By your logic, should we go running for the hills if we see a shaker on the table?

Other than that, the warning on toothpaste appears because -- guess what -- kids do stupid shit like eat things they shouldn't. The same package appears on toothpaste, mouthwash, cooking ingredients, bathroom products, and so forth because -- guess what -- kids can eat these things. Aside from highly toxic compounds which can kill children, licking a bar of soap or eating too much toothpaste would only make you sick and uncomfortable.

In any event, the ultimate debate over water fluoridation isn't rooted in safety so much as it is rooted in individual rights versus the greater good. Water fluoridation, for a long time, has been considered the most equitable means with which to prevent cavities and tooth decay, and it was originally intended as a equal-access treatment for both poor and rich kids to have healthy teeth. Considering its inexpensive cost, the United States isn't going to step back from this worldwide health measure any time soon.

Still, if you're worried about fluoride consumption, buy a good water filter for your taps. They can eliminate between 50 and 100% of the fluoride in our water supply. That, and you probably shouldn't buy bottled water. Fluoride concentration varies depending on the supply and it is difficult to trace how much of it makes it inside your bottle. Unlike water utility supplies, bottling firms aren't regulated so much.

 

[hung9mike]

What do you think? Is this something we should be putting in our water supply?

First, it's fluoride. Here are some of the warnings from a Material Safety Data Sheet for another familiar sodium compound.

Eye Contact: Check for and remove any contact lenses. In case of contact, immediately flush eyes with plenty of water for at least 15 minutes. Cold water may be used. Get medical attention.

Skin Contact: Wash with soap and water. Cover the irritated skin with an emollient. Get medical attention if irritation develops. Cold water may be used.

Inhalation: If inhaled, remove to fresh air. If not breathing, give artificial respiration. If breathing is difficult, give oxygen. Get medical attention if symptoms appear.

Ingestion: Do NOT induce vomiting unless directed to do so by medical personnel. Never give anything by mouth to an unconscious person. Loosen tight clothing such as a collar, tie, belt or waistband. Get medical attention if symptoms appear.

Precautions: Keep locked up. Do not ingest. Do not breathe dust. Avoid contact with eyes. Wear suitable protective clothing. If ingested, seek medical advice immediately and show the container or the label. Keep away from incompatibles such as oxidizing agents, acids.

This sodium compound is sodium chloride (table salt).

I'm not making light of taking precautions around chemicals. But I wouldn't get too worked up over the small amount of fluoride that is added to many municipal water supplies. The benefit of adding fluoride (reducing the incidence of tooth cavities) is well established, and (as far as I'm aware) no credible evidence has been demonstrated of any ill health effects.

 

[cracka1]

Material safety data sheets are generally for the more pure crystalline solid used in laboratories and experiments. The amount of NaF in local water supplies is nowhere near the ppm needed to start toxifying the body system. I'm sure though, however, that if one were to constantly drink faucet water then maybe the levels could accumulate...

 

[SpeedoMike]

many chemicals require a gas chromatograph mass spectrometer to find them because the concentration is so small. over a period of time the instruments have become more and more sensitive, thus the maximum concentrations have been reduced.

my comment comes from the chief scientist/chemist at a GC/MS engineering and manufacturing company. you should hear what he has to say about illicit drugs!!