voodooyoudo
Experimental Member
Lol, totally true. I usually stay out of these, but everyone seems to have very short memory in politics, at least when it's convenient.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"
Solar company that Obama visited will shut down
- Thread starter B_Marius567
- Start date
Lol, totally true. I usually stay out of these, but everyone seems to have very short memory in politics, at least when it's convenient.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"
Bankrupt Solyndra Caught Destroying Brand New Parts
Figured y'all might like an update on one of the green companies that got money from the government.
Figured y'all might like an update on one of the green companies that got money from the government.
TurkeyWithaSunburn
Legendary Member
Not all companies succeed to paraphrase shitt romney. And soyndra wasnt very well run either . But this is now old news, it has been investigated and there is no government scandal.
Sorry repugnantcans, you are going to have to do a lot more work to contrive any kind of legitimate obama scandal. This one has no legs.
Sorry repugnantcans, you are going to have to do a lot more work to contrive any kind of legitimate obama scandal. This one has no legs.
This is an area where I am getting a real education and that education is unfortunate.
California is first and foremost an example of what is wrong with the adoption of clean technologies, but there are others that are far worse and this is one of the reasons that people are not getting it, cannot afford it, and why we as one of the strongest industrial powers in the world seem to slip farther and farther behind.
Some time ago the State of New Mexico adopted some "green" thinking when it required the usage of what is called "Geothermal" climate control for public buildings where at all possible. The codes they imposed on this were quite stiff in requiring it. The biggest opponents to this were the energy companies themselves of course all operating under political action groups and "anonymous" donations. In New Mexico, it remains a requirement in all commercial buildings from municipal offices, schools, rest homes and many more. This system currently supplies the heat and air conditioning year round for one of the five largest college campuses in the world which is New Mexico State University in Las Cruces, New Mexico, and the energy efficiency is astounding. For those not knowing of it what it basically uses is very high tech "heat pump" technology. Where a conventional air conditioner or heat pump uses the ambient outside air as the place to capture or exhaust heat, the geothermal system uses the stability of ground temperature to do the same thing. The high tech "heat pump" technology then takes the stable ground temperature and either extracts heat from it multiplying this factor or reverses this and uses that same ground as a "heat sink" to dump the heat into what are called "geothermal wells" into the ground. The energy efficiency of these systems is staggering when compared against conventional environmental control systems.
I investigated this when I lived in Palm Springs, California, an area where the temperatures on Interstate 10 can under the worst conditions exceed 130 degrees Fahrenheit. In California, nobody is qualified to install this because at the urging of the energy producers and their lobby, laws were passed requiring special licensing and the cost of that licensing is about $25,000 for any interested air conditioning contractor. In order to get the $25,000 licensure and bonding, the contractor has to attend special education classes on the installation of that kind of system. Of course those were also roadblocked because no contractor wants to pay $25,000 for the license after going broke paying for classes that are not taught in California because of lack of demand. The lack of demand is caused by the extreme costs imposed by the State on any form of Geothermal system before one gets started.
Those living there could see as much as an 80% reduction in their power consumption by use of this technology and heat sinking into the ground instead of trying to get cool out of 115 degree air. Who benefitted from this? San Diego Gas and Electric, Pacific Gas and Electric, Southern California Edison, Imperial Irrigation District and a host of others in that their profits will be guaranteed to be maximized if this technology is stopped.
In the State of California, the most one can do by installing a Solar Array on their roof is to zero out their power bill. That one was a gift from former Republican Governor "Pete Wilson" to California energy producers. While California did offer some energy rebates for installation of solar photovoltaic systems on homes, it is set it up in such a manner as to prevent credit for the generation by the homeowner of additional power to be placed back on the grid, and while it would have done a great deal of good Energy Producers did not see it that way, only seeing that they might have to cut a few checks instead of collecting them and Pete Wilsons gifting saved the energy producers a great deal of money.
In many States, one can install photovoltaic panels in numbers and by law the power supplier for the home is compelled under law to "buy" the power from the producing home owners.
In California the energy producers just get it for free, you get to pay them, but they don't have to pay you at all.
Photovoltaic panels have never been produced by United States Manufacturers for the same reasons. Siemens is one of the largest producers and Siemens is foreign owned. Kyocera is another one of the largest producers and again it is foreign owned. If you go down the list of producers of these panels very few are currently American Made. The cost of the panels is not in the labor costs because the truth is that most are machine by machines and robotics is heavily involved in the process of how they are made, the cost is in the cost of the materials used to produce these panels and the robotics and the profit margins are still not high on them. The only way to produce these panels cheaply is an investment of incredible quantities of money first in the equipment to make them and secondly into the materials up front to have it available in monumental quantities from the beginning. Few have the start up capitol and they face incredible opposition from energy producers to assure their failure.
Now again we have various other forces coming into play. The energy producers have gone to City Councils and played politics doing what they can to make them illegal by statute because of appearance issues and citing safety factors. The safety factor in these panels and systems come into play when during high production of the photovoltaic system the producers suffers a power failure on a line. The Power Company shuts down the line while repairs take place, but the solar panels keep on cranking out power because they are designed to be a "U.P.S." which is "un-interruptable power supply". The powers that do not want these systems, cite that the automatic drop-outs to separate the system from line power "could fail" causing injury or death to linemen under certain circumstances. Equipment can fail on their end too, but all of these systems are first marked and known by power companies and secondly, testing lines is always done. (My Father-In-Law" is a retired line man from an eastern New Mexico Power Company)
While it seems unrelated other governments do not think like we do. . . .
Honda Motors with two models of motorcycles literally captured the American Market. These were the Honda 350 and the Honda 750. These Motorcycles were sold to Americans at a loss with the cost to produce them being substantially higher than the sale price in American Honda Motorcycle dealers. They did this under government subsidy to invade and capture the American Market and it was very successful.
China has "cooked the books" for years and has done so repeatedly on numerous products to take over and invade markets with cheap low quality products. The idea is that they grab the buyers with price and then hook them in using the volume over time to compensate for the R&D, and other costs. China produces with a volume and low quality oriented mentality and their system works very well for them.
Our problem is not China however. Our problem is that we repeatedly fall for this same scam over and over again. For a time I bought tennis shoes from Wal-Mart and paid about $24 per pair for these shoes. These shoes are of poor quality and begin to literally disintegrate at the 90 day mark and are trash can fodder at 6 months. If I buy an American pair of high end tennis shoes it is true I pay a whole lot more, but, that pair of shoes tends to last me as much as three years all of which is good service.
There is little doubt that we in the United States could take this market completely over time. The problem is that we have come to look at "government subsidy" of industry in this country to be a sin when all of our competitors are doing it making us unable to compete. They succeed simply because they "cheat" and it is that simple.
They started shipping in truck tires for 18 wheelers which they were selling through cheap retail tire outlets and they were being sold at prices that were about 150 under the American made tires of the same sizes. Tons of these tires failed at high speeds causing fatalities and the investigations commenced. Those particular tires have now been "banned" from the American market because of their failure to meet performance standards needed for American use.
Barak Obama and his advisors are no more able to predict the success or failure of a company in this tough economy than anyone else. He in fact did the right thing standing up for the principal and in support of alternate green technology. The failure of that particular corporation is nothing more or less than coincidence.
Also remember that any corporate start-up even if the product is technologically superior to competition is very difficult in a crashed economy. This corporation needs distributors which are scarce for a new product of this kind. The distributor needs retailers who are going to be hesitant to take on a new product line in tough times especially if he the retailer cannot offer a substantial price discount making the profit margin higher and the end customer more easily able to afford the product.
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Right now I am located about 70 miles from the New Mexico State University Campus using geothermal and I am investigating the purchase of both photovoltaic for power generation and in addition a geothermal heating and air conditioning system to eliminate the usage of propane at my ranch home. Heating my home with propane depending on temperature can cost me as much as $13 per day based on the cost of the gas at the given time.
I have to look at the dollars, but first I absolutely positively have to find a qualified contractor able to handle this kind of system.