Some Christians Not Homophobic

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Freddie53, Oct 17, 2006.

  1. Freddie53

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    This thread is a thread for people who follow the teachings of Jesus to post that they are not homophobic.

    Some liberal mainline Christians who are not homophobic and don’t believe that homosexuality is hated by God. These Christians welcome homosexuals and gay couples into their churches get a bad rap because of the fundie Christians and conservative Catholic Christians. These two groups make is seem that all Christians are homophobic and that God hates gays and lesbians.

    Some mainline liberal Christian churches have gay and lesbian pastors, priests and bishops who are admitted gay and some have a gay or lesbian partner.

    You don’t have to be a church goer, member of an organized Christians group to stand up for our understanding of Christianity which is following the teachings of Jesus.

    If you lean toward Christianity in any way and want to publically state that you believe homosexuals are people that God loves as his children as much as God loves his straight children, please make a post and let all the gays bis's and lesbians here know that the fundie Christians don’t speak for us.
     
  2. Freddie53

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    My church as at least one avowed gay couple and they are active in chruch and serve on committees ard are very welcome. We only average about 90.

    I am a liberal mainline gay Christian with some bi tendences though I am not sexually active at this point.

    The Fundies don't speak for me for ANYTHING!
     
  3. Hatched69

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    Excellent post!!
    I, as a Christian, am tired of being "lumped" in with every other Christian on the planet. I am a firm believer in my faith, follow the word of God to the best of my ability, and find acceptance for most folks (sorry, murderers, rapists, child molesters... no love in my heart for you), regardless of race, sex, creed, orientation, etc.

    "Judge Not Lest Ye Be Judged"

    Thanks, Freddie for speaking out!!:smile:
     
  4. roosevelt

    roosevelt New Member

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    I am Certainly what you would call a "Christian" by almost any definition, even, in fact, rather conservative politically and doctrinally, but I have no problem with homosexuality.

    All people are loved by God.

    People come in all different shapes, sizes, colors and orientations, and none of those things effect the Love that God has for the people.

    I do not oppose gay marriage

    I don't oppose gay ministers, as long as they're not unfaithful (I'm opposed to ministers in general being unfaithful, so that's not any different in my mind)

    Good thread by the way, sometimes it's hard to say "I'm a christian, and I'm straight, but I'm not a homophobe" but I think you present a good opportunity. Thanks!
     
  5. joyboytoy79

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    OK, so i'm not christian, but i thought i would say something anyway.

    I know, for a fact, that most christians are accepting of homosexuality. In fact, to be a true christian, one must open his or her arms to everyone. If ever i am seen in the forums saying anything about Fundie Christians or Conservative Catholics... or maybe the "church" in general... i am not talking about individual people who actually follow the edicts of Jesus. In those instances, i am talking about institutions of thought that try to sway people away from acceptance.

    I can't speak for everyone else that may seem to be christain-bashing, but those are my views. This is an excellent thread, Freddie! The world needs to see what REAL christian people are about!
     
  6. DC_DEEP

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    Another non-christian chiming in here.

    Thanks, Freddie. I've known christians (what you described) and pseudo-christians (ones who claim the name, but refuse to follow and practice the commands of christ). So long as a person's beliefs don't give him the false idea that he must control my life, I don't have a problem with it. I have many friends and relatives who are devout practicing christians. Funny thing, in fact, is that my own personal philosophy of life parallels much of the teaching of most religions, sort of a golden rule kind of thing.

    I have just never felt that there was a higher being urging me to meddle in the personal affairs of others - like the fundie churches seem to do.
     
  7. D_Sheffield Thongbynder

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    The latest poll I saw in Virginia regarding the anti-gay marriage amendment shows that more than half of Virginians will vote for it. While that voting pattern may not necesarily be homophobic, it certainly indicates that the churches all across Virginia that are aggressively pushing for this amendment are closeminded on the issue. To me, that falls within the definition of homophobia.
     
  8. Dave NoCal

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    I'm agnostic but my parents are retired missionaries for a mainline denomination and they are absolutely not homophobic. Both speak out in favor of gay marriage, love my partner, stay with us frequently, support my cousin and his partner, and stand up to fundies. Oh, they are in their eighties and recently celebrated their sixtieth wedding anniversary.
     
  9. Shelby

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    On the other hand. What about us atheist homophobes?

    Just kidding folks. To be like that would be gay.:tongue:
     
  10. Freddie53

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    There is truth in what you say. However, homophobia is a human trait that is reflected in religious organizations. The most homophobic societies have been the ones ruled by communist regimes which certainly aren't Christian.

    It is human nature to bash those in the minority. And homosexuals are in the minority.

    It is true that the highest act of love under God is man and woman producing children, which is what God intended: That man go forth and multiply. But that certainly doesn't make all other acts sinful.

    The fundies are in the majority in Virginia. So that amendment will probably pass. But the fundies aren't in the majority in some states. The marriage amendment will not pass in some states.

    And the idea of a federal marriage amendment is just a stupid idea. Who wants the federal government involved in marriage laws, divorces etc? Regardless how a person feels about homophobia, it is just plain stupid to get the federal government in control of marriage licences, divorces. What a Pandora's box would we be opening!
     
  11. B_Stronzo

    B_Stronzo New Member

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    Interesting.

    I think the same is true in THIS Commonwealth too John.

    Here's the thing;

    Had racially discriminatory laws been put up for popular vote in Selma in the mid 1960s we'd still see water fountains "for whites only".

    Some shit is better mandated.

    **aside: Much as I love Freddie and respect his chosen faith? The American Christian Church is behind much with regard to the ills of this society as I see it.
     
  12. dudepiston

    dudepiston New Member

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    I'm not mainline christian either, but i like to think i also try to follow the true examples & teachings of christ and many other great philosophers & spiritual leaders in history. i concur that many 'christians' seem to have not been paying much attention in sunday school class. i completely, 100% support gay marraige, gays occupying any field of work for which they are qualified, including pastoring a church. and i don't mean that they must be celibate either....far from it. if they're going to be MY pastor, they need to possibly be able to identify with real life issues - and sex is a real life issue.
     
  13. DC_DEEP

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    Well, Freddie, the feds are wanting to take the cowards' way out. They would not be involved in the issuance of marriage licenses, nor in the divorce process. They would simply "define" marriage, once again (remember DOMA?) so that each state would have the option of defying the "Full Faith and Credit" clause of the Constitution, when they deemed it convenient to do so.

    Full faith and credit requires each state to honor the public acts and deeds (including marriage) of every other state. Meaning that if you legally marry in one state, your marriage is automatically valid and legal in every other state. When DOMA was passed, it stipulated that for federal legal purposes, marriage is "defined" as between one man and one woman. It did not prohibit any state from making same-gender marriage legal, it only said that the federal government would not recognize it. Now, with Massachusetts having "legalized" same-gender marriage, other states are in an uproar because of full faith and credit.

    And the federal government is already WAY involved in marriage. I don't recall the exact numbers, but when I was researching the issue about a year ago, I found that there are literally THOUSANDS of federal laws on the books that pertain to marriage. Tax laws, inheritance laws, confidentiality laws, you name it. You see, another problem creeps into the picture, as far as I am concerned. That troublesome 14th amendment. You know, the one that requires equal protection under the law.

    If churches don't want to be hypocritical in a cardinal way, they will have to stand up to the fundies and demand that christian doctrine be taught the way christ himself taught it. And every single thinking citizen needs to let his representatives in both the house and the senate that a "marriage amendment" is unacceptable for many reasons.

    Funny thing, though. I most strongly urge anyone who reads this to write to their congressmen and senators with one question: if marriage is so important, and so desperately in need of protection, why does DOMA and any proposed constitutional amendment not have any mention of making divorce illegal? It seems to me that would do much more to protect the institution of marriage, than would outlawing marriage for a specific segment of the population. I bet if you write and ask them, they will refuse to answer you.
     
  14. B_Stronzo

    B_Stronzo New Member

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    "amen brother" Tell it! Time the thinking Christians distanced themselves from the rest of the those neanderthals giving them a shitty name.

    Yes indeedy.

    Let's pull out all the stops!

    If no homos can marry then there can be no divorce!

    There, done. Let the zealot fuckers put their money where their rhetoric is.
     
  15. DC_DEEP

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    Right. For every "anti" argument out there, there's a "pro" argument that's stronger. For the life of me, I cannot understand why the ACLU, HRC, and other groups that claim to be "working so hard at equality" for us won't put the lawmakers' feet to the fire and make them answer some tough questions. Well, yes, actually I do know why, but contributors to these organizations need to demand more accountability. The reason they don't ask the hard questions is that lawyers are doing the asking, and they don't usually care about what's right, they care about prolonging the debate and staying one step, and one step only, ahead of the opponent.

    The hard questions are going to be things like

    Definitions of marriage already vary from one state to the next, especially in regards to age of consent; yet full faith and credit still applied. Why are you attempting to give legal recourse to states by allowing them to circumvent full faith and credit?

    How do you reconcile the reasoning for such an amendment with the 1st, 10th, and 14th amendments?

    Why will you not support REAL protections, if protection is your true goal?


    The attitude of too many: Yawn. It's boring, and it doesn't apply to me, so I don't care.

    Fine. I'll yawn and be bored when they come after YOU the next time.
     
  16. losangelestim

    losangelestim Member

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    i really have little sympathy for christians or jews or muslims or any faith. faith is just that. there is no "fact" of faith. one fact (not based on faith) seems to be clear though: there are homos who are christian, jewish, muslim, etc. regardless of what their faith tells them.

    then there's that tom katt guy. a few years ago i used to see him at breakfast in west hollywood with all the other hustlers almost every day (at the s.m. blvd eat well) and now he's a minister and was never gay. i guess that's possible if one has faith. i'd rather use my eyes and ears.

    homophobia is certainly not exclusive to right-wingers or christians or conservatives. it crosses all boundries. one shouldn't tar a group because of the actions of homophobic individuals. certainly all christians don't lack imagination and all homos aren't alcoholic meth users (though it may seem otherwise sometimes).
     
  17. B_Stronzo

    B_Stronzo New Member

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    And too often that's the case with our homosexual brothers too I'm ashamed to note too DC.

    It's why I ride this "homo high horse" of mine too often for some here.

    Thanks for the contributions (on several fronts) here at the site today. Your activism is palpable.
     
  18. AlteredEgo

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    Despite sometimes glaring disdain from our most elderly parishoners, the publicly homosexual members of my church (and some of the ones who keep it quiet too) are the most active. There is not a committee that could survive without the presence of our gay brothers and sisters. I didn't even know we had a committee dedicated to serving the community through art before one of the gay guys took it over and helped it turn into the committee which raises the most money for our church and the community it serves. We have an organization dedicated to the emotional support of gay christians, regardless of denomination (though we always hope they will consider the Episcopal church and be at home with us on Sunday mornings) and they plan lots of cool events. The gay members of my church throw themselves deeply into everything. They seem the most determined to improve and maintain our parishand its ability to serve a more and more dynamic, diverse community. My gay brothers and sisters at church seem to be the most passionate, the most humble, and the most active. Perhaps this is because they feel like they have to work so much harder to fit into the Christian community. I only hope they know they don't have to work any harder than anyonne else to get the same share in God's love.
     
  19. D_Sheffield Thongbynder

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    For Freddie I want to state my position on this issue: I am a Christian, and I deplore trhe attitudes of so-called Christians that are homophobic or exclusionary in any way. That behavior runs counter to everything that Christianity espouses. I no longer worship in a church, and I probably never will again unless I find one populated with members like JA and Freddie -- and I doubt that will ever happen. It becomes increasingly difficult to maintain one's beliefs in the face of the actions of the Cathlic church and pedophile priests and of the politicizing from the pulpit. I would not have even aired my spiritual beliefs were it not for Freddie, who, to me, embodies what Christianity, or any religion for that matter, is supposed to represent. Surrounded by fundamentalists who are mean-spirited, judgmental, homophobic, exclusionary, and limited in their ability to analyze social issues that they blithely condemn or approve, I find it easy to understand why so many people reject religions altogether. I would much rather have dialogue with many of the atheists on this board for whom I have great respect than the pseudo-Christians I have to deal with on a daily basis. Hats off to you, Freddie!
     
  20. Ethyl

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    A very good friend of mine is a lutheran minister and he's gay. Watching him wrestle with "outing" himself to loved ones, keeping quiet about his sexuality to others in the synod throughout college and seminary, and seeing members of his own congregation slowly accepting the reality of his sexuality has been part of my recent human and spiritual education. I wouldn't trade it for anything. "Love the sinner, hate the sin" is pure nonsense. I don't see how so-called Christians espouse that belief.

    *says the Christian Mystic*
     
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