some say gay=unnatural

DiscoBoy

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Note: There is a difference between something that is natural and something which occurs in nature.
natural: definition | Dictionary.com
nat⋅u⋅ral
–adjective
1. existing in or formed by nature
natural: - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
2 a: being in accordance with or determined by nature
5: implanted or being as if implanted by nature : seemingly inborn
10: b: existing in or produced by nature : not artificial
Doesn't look like the dictionary agrees with you :rolleyes:.

And once again, procreating does not make a homosexual any less gay. Your sexuality isn't determined by the actions you perform. It's much beyond that.
 

pedercic99

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Yes and when someone commits suicide their friends say 'as far as I knew he was happy'.

"As far as you know" is not a valid reason or basis for anything.

so on what basis are you telling us that people don't have children because they were abused, had unhappy childhoods or have low self-esteem?
Do explain, i can't wait.
 

Incocknito

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If you say so.

So simply because it happens it is automatically natural. So its entirely normal for lionesses to raise gazelle cubs? I see.

Show me a definition of homosexual that mentions heterosexuality or sex with the opposite gender as being a part of it.

If a sexual act is with a member of the same gender then it is homosexual. If it is with a member of the opposite gender then it is a heterosexual act.

If someone has sex with a member of the opposite gender then they are not truly homosexual. Perhaps in these cases...they are only gay due to environmental factors such as a lack of available females?

I notice you are all quick to say that when a straight guy sucks off another male that 'he's not straight anymore, he's bi'.

But apparently it doesn't work the other way? Gay men can have sex with women and they're still gay?

Again, I'm tired of your unsubstantiated opinions. Show me some evidence that homosexuality involves heterosexual copulation.
 

Incocknito

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so on what basis are you telling us that people don't have children because they were abused, had unhappy childhoods or have low self-esteem?
Do explain, i can't wait.

Abused Women Less Likely To Be Married or In Long-Term Relationships

"Some of the women who were abused as adults had what the researchers described as a pattern of "abated" unions, meaning they had consciously chosen to take a hiatus from romantic relationships with men"

As for the other possible causes...look for yourself. Or provide some sources for your own argument, if you can. I believe I am the only one in this thread who has posted links to other sources of evidence.
 

matticus201

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vodka is definitely my style kid, and the blindfold and strap sounds like so much fun hahaha

I personally believe 100% either way is kinda weird, not decided on the un-natural part though, I'm not really sure, but definitely weird. I believe in a persons prime, one likes to just fuck as much as they can, w/e comes their way. It just so happens I think it tends to be easier to fuck gay men than straight women simply because of the society situation (at least where I live) Anyway...

Vodka... Nectar of the Gods! I actually say 100% because I've never met a woman that I've been sexually attracted to. It's always been only men. However, if that woman ever comes along, I'll rethink the percentage. :)
 

dolfette

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If you say so.

So simply because it happens it is automatically natural. So its entirely normal for lionesses to raise gazelle cubs? I see.
it's rare and unusual but not unnatural.
it happens.
female crocs will nurture baby turtles during the hatching season, because nature gives mothers a mothering instinct.
the desire of a bereaved mother to nurture a substitute is perfectly natural...in that situation it found an outlet that wasn't the normal one.

you want what you see as normal to be the concrete definition of what is natural. to you gay is not normal, so you throw tantrums when we won't agree with you that it's unnatural.

big, bold font and all.
 

DiscoBoy

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If you say so.

So simply because it happens it is automatically natural. So its entirely normal for lionesses to raise gazelle cubs? I see.

Show me a definition of homosexual that mentions heterosexuality or sex with the opposite gender as being a part of it.

If a sexual act is with a member of the same gender then it is homosexual. If it is with a member of the opposite gender then it is a heterosexual act.

If someone has sex with a member of the opposite gender then they are not truly homosexual. Perhaps in these cases...they are only gay due to environmental factors such as a lack of available females?

I notice you are all quick to say that when a straight guy sucks off another male that 'he's not straight anymore, he's bi'.

But apparently it doesn't work the other way? Gay men can have sex with women and they're still gay?

Again, I'm tired of your unsubstantiated opinions. Show me some evidence that homosexuality involves heterosexual copulation.
Look, you gave a definition so I gave you two from two credible dictionaries. You've changed your choice of word from natural to normal. Stop confusing the two. Simply because something doesn't occur often and is deemed abnormal, doesn't make it unnatural.

It may be a homosexual act, but that doesn't make a person a homosexual. And don't make assumptions. I have never once called a person who has chosen to suck a guy off gay or even bi. Each individual knows what they are and I'm not going to be the one going around labeling them.

You obviously have no idea at all what it is to be homosexual. A gay man can sleep with only women his entire life and that wouldn't change the fact that he's gay. It's inherent. What the fuck kind of proof do you want? Do you want me to quote another person like you've been doing all this time? I am gay, ergo, I know exactly what it means to be gay. You're not gay, so you have no clue whatsoever what that means, and trust me, it shows.
 
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pedercic99

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Abused Women Less Likely To Be Married or In Long-Term Relationships

"Some of the women who were abused as adults had what the researchers described as a pattern of "abated" unions, meaning they had consciously chosen to take a hiatus from romantic relationships with men"

As for the other possible causes...look for yourself. Or provide some sources for your own argument, if you can. I believe I am the only one in this thread who has posted links to other sources of evidence.

If true, this suggests that some women who have been abused may not be in romantic relationships, which is quite understandable. It does not imply that people who don't have children have been abused.

You seem to be unwilling to accept that some people don't have children because they have simply chosen not to have them. There is no need to postulate any cause for their choice.
 

B_Hamadim

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Incocknito, You have no right to say that those who don't want to bear/have children has some Phsychological problems/was abused when their were children/low self esteem.

And If you do, then you are the most Ignorant person I've encountered in my entire life.

I want to hear an apology from you, otherwise... Don't come back here again and make sure to cut your hands...

Any Coward can write whatever comes on his/her mind...
 

joyboytoy79

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Let me, a scientist (who works in a lab and wears a lab coat and experiements with chemicals and lifeforms and everything) throw my words into the fray here.

Darwin, in his opus "On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life" never did speculate that the sole purpose for any individual is procreation. Rather, he postulated that those RACES whose practices, habits, instincts, and physical conformation are best suited to the environment they live in are most likely to survive, and therefor most likely to procreate, thus perpetuating their genes. Species that work together to rear offspring are more likely to successfuly rear offspring than those who exert no effort to rear their offspring. He did not state, nor did he imply that it is in any way unnatural for any individual to not procreate. He did state, though i can't at the moment find the direct quote, that the most natural thing an individual can do is strive to survive.

Now, Incocknito, the dictionary i have at hand (the New Oxford American Dictionary, second edition, 2005) defines Natural as thus:

"existing in or caused by nature; not made or caused by humankind"

I would like for you to please explain to me how that in any way equates to organisms having to procreate in order to be considered natural. I'm a simple person, so simple, easy to understand, well dillineated explanations work best, please. If needed, the definition of Nature is thus:

"the phenomena of the physical world collectively, including plants, animals, the landscape, and other features and products of the earth, as opposed to humans or human creations"

Mind you, being a scientist, I find this definition to be narrow minded and earth centric - and I'll be writing a letter to the editors of this particular dictionary to have them change the word "earth" to "universe," but that's a different argument.

Dolfette, I like your hypothesis. It is well-formed and based on solid observations. I suspect the question of homosexuality is more complex than the answer you've given, but it's a good stab!
 

mitchymo

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So simply because it happens it is automatically natural. So its entirely normal for lionesses to raise gazelle cubs? I see.

YES....it is natural....it is also irregular but looking beyond the unusual you can see that a a lioness being a mother and a gazelle cub being a child a natural bond can be formed....its natural. (just happens to also be irregular)

I have decided to bold this post so that you might actually acknowledge that ANYTHING which is relating to nature is natural, whereas you are constantly trying to seperate regular and irregular occurences into natural and unnatural......UNNATURAL in dictionary terms is predominantly focused on that which is SUPERNATURAL.

I have tried to explain how you have misunderstood the meaning of the word unnatural yet you seem to conveniently forget to reply to my posts most likely because you know you have been foolish and have nothing to back up your opinion without that misread meaning of unnatural.

I just want to say to Kotchanski, you are without doubt a wise woman and yet still unable to get through to this guy, can't help them all i guess :rolleyes::smile:

And thank you to those that have referred to Darwinism.....this concept i guess will never be accepted by the most stubborn of godly believers.
 

Incocknito

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So you are saying that it is natural (aka normal and to an extent 'expected') for a predator to raise what is to it a natural prey animal? And that it has nothing to do with environmental factors (which are not natural and are more due to random chance and circumstance).

JBT:

You are confusing the context. When I say Nature I am talking usually about the natural cycle of living things which is a self evident truth. The majority living things live, procreate and then die.

The context in which I use natural is in how it relates to the Nature's Law/Cycle.

Here is the definition of unnatural:

un⋅nat⋅u⋅ral

–adjective

1. contrary to the laws or course of nature.

Source: http://dictionary.reference.com/dic?q=unnatural&search=search

Therefore given that the law or course of nature for all living things is simply to live, procreate and then die am I not correct in saying that homosexuality is unnatural?

If you want to "get through to me" then show me some evidence to the contrary. So far I have seen jack shit from any of you.

I have seen a lot of evidence which supports my point of view. The evidence compelled me to this point of view.

If you want to change my mind then show me some evidence and don't give me your disjointed and poorly expressed personal opinion.
 
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Smaccoms

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pedercic99

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Therefore given that the law or course of nature for all living things is simply to live, procreate and then die am I not correct in saying that homosexuality is unnatural?
[/QUOTE]

You keep referring to this supposed 'law of nature.' There is no such law. You are conflating three different types of proposition. All living things live, otherwise they would not be living things. This is just a tautology. All living things die, unless you believe in an afterlife. I suppose you could call that a law of nature if you like. Some of them procreate, some don't. There is no 'law of nature' that states that all living things should do so.
 

Incocknito

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Maybe you should re-read it then Smaccoms:

In most instances, it is presumed that the homosexual behavior is but part of the animal's overall sexual behavioral repertoire, making the animal "bisexual" rather than "homosexual" as the terms are commonly understood in humans.

And its going to take something more than Wikipedia to change my mind.
 

mitchymo

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So you are saying that it is natural (aka normal and to an extent 'expected') for a predator to raise what is to it a natural prey animal? And that it has nothing to do with environmental factors (which are not natural and are more due to random chance and circumstance).

I CLEARLY stated that it was irregular not normal, this does not make it unnatural in itself and i certainly did not add 'expected' to the equation.

Here is the definition of unnatural:

un⋅nat⋅u⋅ral

–adjective

1. contrary to the laws or course of nature.

Source: unnatural definition | Dictionary.com

How many more times? You are misinterpreting this, it means directly that which is supernatural, the word unnatural itself is an unnatural word in that it serves ONLY to replace the term supernatural.

You could accept this if you researched the definition of NATURAL in the same dictionary you refer to and confirm with other dictionaries.

Many words having 'un' at the front of them simply exist as a simpler way of saying the opposite (in natural's case it is supernatural) i.e. it is easier to understand to say un-educated than illiterate or uneducated than ignorant.

The meaning of unnatural and supernatural are basically the same thing.

Therefore given that the law or course of nature for all living things is simply to live, procreate and then die am I not correct in saying that homosexuality is unnatural?

It has been on several occasions explained that it IS NOT EVERY thing that lives which has a purpose to procreate, the purpose varies from species to species with the ONLY universal undeniable law being birth and death....not the procreation, everything is not EXPECTED to procreate just death after birth is absolute, anything in between is relative.

If you want to "get through to me" then show me some evidence to the contrary. So far I have seen jack shit from any of you.

I have seen a lot of evidence which supports my point of view. The evidence compelled me to this point of view.

If you want to change my mind then show me some evidence and don't give me your disjointed and poorly expressed personal opinion

It is not possible to get through to those who fail to understand when they have been educated, you are simply ignorant.

You simply are not learning
 
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