some say gay=unnatural

[dolfette]

Ellipsis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

read this, incocknito.

 

[Smaccoms]

Those animals that are homosexual were studied for their entire lives were they?

Is there an entire species of flaming, gay animals?

Is there even a species where a majority is gay?

According to your article, disregarding the vast majority of the case studies (which actually found bisexuality and not homosexuality):

The article itself states that homosexual acts can and usually are displays of dominance.

Wikipedia does not state whether the behaviours are learned or instinctive.

Until the above criteria are met then Wikipedia has not convinced me.

But its okay, like I said before YOU WIN!!

It said that about 20% of all couples in mallards are homosexual and cited observations of couples of several different species being gay and stealing the egg of a female to raise on their own (their own gay relationship). One observation stated a gay penguin relationship finding a rock to put in their nest to replace an egg (which I personally find very cute). One zoo in germany found they had many gay coupled penguins that mate for life, and YES, they WERE observed for their entire life (it's a zoo) and no they did not mate simply due to a lack of females. At this very zoo, they separated every one of the gay couples, and gave them several oportunities to mate with actual females in heterosexual relationships, but they refused because they were homosexual, and mated for life in a same sex couple and never procreated, but still contributed to their species (they steal eggs and raise them). It even cited that babies raised by homosexual couples were sometimes more successfull than their heterosexual counterparts due to larger land territorries. No, this is not the exception it has been cited multiple times in mulitple locations, and no it was clearly not due to lack of females. It was even cited that a couple gay will have a threesome with a female and then abandon her but steal the egg (therefore they procreated and raised the egg while still being homosexual b/c they raised the chick in the homosexual couple without any female.

ALL of this is in the article with legitimate sources cited at the bottom. IN YOUR FACE, I just destroyed your arguement, you might want to learn how to read evidence presented to you bub...

 

[Incocknito]

yet you only stopped using

ANGRY SIZED TEXT IN CAPS

And Bold Font

when it was pointed out and mocked.

:smile:

Actually, that was because when I copied and pasted from that site, the font was set at that size and I couldn't be bothered changing it back.

I invite you to try it and see for yourself. I used Capslock to aid your comprehension. I'm thoughtful like that.

You will note that in all other posts I did not copy and paste from that site and that is why I used that font size in that one post.

You think I care about anything you have to say? I will use whatever font I like and I will employ capslock AS THE MOOD TAKES ME.

Bold is fair game too.

 

[dolfette]

I used Capslock to aid your comprehension. I'm thoughtful like that.

no, you used it because you were angry and frustrated.

you're funny like that.

 

[Incocknito]

Is it not possible that if the first sexual interaction in an animal's environment is homosexual that they may from the get go have an exclusive preference for same sex partners. This is an example of an environmental cause for homosexuality. It may not be what they wanted but was merely what opportunity presented them with.

As for the penguins...A zoo is the most natural place in the world.

I am sure that their forced confinement and the psychological damage of being removed from their natural habitat as well as the psychological damage caused by a zoo environment had no part to play in the penguin's homosexuality.

I am totally convinced. Can we be friends now?

OMG I am so stupid *facepalm*

Anyway you obviously have scant evidence for your side of the homosexuality story so I am going to bow out now. It may be the fourth or even fifth time I have said that but this time I mean it.

 

[mitchymo]

Yet you are still not using proper sentences or capitalising letters. Are you old enough to be on this site?

I feel that the majority of my responses have been concise and followed the proper grammatical form. I'm happy with that.

English grammer is unimportant, it is variable as obviously explains how the english language is now divided into british english, american and australian and olde english forms...it is the understanding that is important.

So now you are a sarcastic, fickle, ignorant poster

 

[mitchymo]

Is it not possible that if the first sexual interaction in an animal's environment is homosexual that they may from the get go have an exclusive preference for same sex partners. This is an example of an environmental cause for homosexuality. It may not be what they wanted but was merely what opportunity presented them with.

As for the penguins...A zoo is the most natural place in the world.

I am sure that their forced confinement and the psychological damage of being removed from their natural habitat as well as the psychological damage caused by a zoo environment had no part to play in the penguin's homosexuality.

I am totally convinced. Can we be friends now?

OMG I am so stupid *facepalm*

Anyway you obviously have scant evidence for your side of the homosexuality story so I am going to bow out now. It may be the fourth or even fifth time I have said that but this time I mean it.

Environmental causes do not outweigh natural instinct....personal choice plays its part here...hence not every prison inmate will indulge in homosexual activity simply because females are not around

 

[Smaccoms]

this guy is unbelieveable, he won't fully read the evidence presented to him, and twists w/e you copy for him to read to support his cause when really it dumps it. That article clearly destroys his arguement, we all know it even him, I thought I might put in my two cents, but I give up, he's hopeless. It was fun trying though. It's good to know how ignorant people can be, shall we gather a point and laugh session directed at incocknito?

point and laugh hahaha...
hey, that was fun...hehehe

 

[DiscoBoy]

That assumes that homosexuality is formed by nature and not created by environmental factors now doesn't it?

You are also confused as to what I mean by homosexuality. I don't mean homosexual acts per se.

I am referring to and have always used the context of homosexuality as:

100% unerring

Which I have yet to see evidence for. I have seen evidence of 'homosexual episodes' but not of an animal (barring humans) which was 100% homosexual from birth.

And even if that evidence were found...there would still need to be some evidence that its homosexuality was natural and not environmental.

The Gay Animal Kingdom SEEDMAGAZINE.COM

Male big horn sheep live in what are often called “homosexual societies.” They bond through genital licking and anal intercourse, which often ends in ejaculation. If a male sheep chooses to not have gay sex, it becomes a social outcast. Ironically, scientists call such straight-laced males “effeminate.” Giraffes have all-male orgies. So do bottlenose dolphins, killer whales, gray whales, and West Indian manatees. Japanese macaques, on the other hand, are ardent lesbians; the females enthusiastically mount each other. Bonobos, one of our closest primate relatives, are similar, except that their lesbian sexual encounters occur every two hours. Male bonobos engage in “penis fencing,” which leads, surprisingly enough, to ejaculation. They also give each other genital massages.

...

Japanese macaques, an old world primate, illustrate this principle perfectly. Macaque society revolves around females, who form intricate dominance hierarchies within a given group. Males are transient. To help maintain the necessary social networks, female macaques engage in rampant lesbianism. These friendly copulations, which can last up to four days, form the bedrock of macaque society, preventing unnecessary violence and aggression. Females that sleep together will even defend each other from the unwanted advances of male macaques. In fact, behavioral scientist Paul Vasey has found that females will choose to mate with another female, as opposed to a horny male, 92.5% of the time. While this lesbianism probably decreases reproductive success for macaques in the short term, in the long run it is clearly beneficial for the species, since it fosters social stability. “Same-sex sexuality is just another way of maintaining physical intimacy,” Roughgarden says. “It’s like grooming, except we have lots of pleasure neurons in our genitals. When animals exhibit homosexual behavior, they are just using their genitals for a socially significant purpose.”

...

According to Roughgarden, gayness is a necessary side effect of getting along. Homosexuality evolved in tandem with vertebrate societies, in which a motley group of individuals has to either live together or die alone. In fact, Roughgarden even argues that homosexuality is a defining feature of advanced animal communities, which require communal bonds in order to function. “The more complex and sophisticated a social system is,” she writes, “the more likely it is to have homosexuality intermixed with heterosexuality.”

Male Homosexuality Can Be Explained Through A Specific Model Of Darwinian Evolution, Study Shows

Male homosexuality is difficult to explain under Darwinian evolutionary models, because carriers of genes predisposing towards male homosexuality would be likely to reproduce less than average, suggesting that alleles influencing homosexuality should progressively disappear from a population. This changed when previous work by Camperio Ciani and collaborators, published in 2004, showed that females in the maternal line of male homosexuals were more fertile than average.

...

The results of this model show the interaction of male homosexuality with increased female fecundity within human populations, in a complex dynamic, resulting in the maintenance of male homosexuality at stable and relatively low frequencies, and highlighting the effects of heredity through the maternal line.

These findings provide new insights into male homosexuality in humans. In particular, they promote a focus shift in which homosexuality should not be viewed as a detrimental trait (due to the reduced male fecundity it entails), but, rather, should be considered within the wider evolutionary framework of a characteristic with gender-specific benefits, and which promotes female fecundity. This may well be the evolutionary origin of this genetic trait in human beings.

Homosexuality is formed by nature. It also looks like Dolfette's theory is right on the money.

 

[dolfette]

ooo, theory #2!!

it's like sickle cell!
{bear with me}
like with bonobos, bisexual sex aids group cohesion.
like the sickle cell gene helps fight maleria.
but homosexuality is a double dose.
like sickle cell anemia.
so you get bisexuality with a carrier.
it is inevitable that some will carry two recessive genes.

...ok, that one was just silly.
but i can't wait to get the reaction.

 

[Smaccoms]

The Gay Animal Kingdom SEEDMAGAZINE.COM
Male Homosexuality Can Be Explained Through A Specific Model Of Darwinian Evolution, Study ShowsHomosexuality is formed by nature. It also looks like Dolfette's theory is right on the money.

THATS FUCKIN AWESOME DUDE, I didn't know that, I'm totally readin up on those links of urs :biggrin1:

 

[joyboytoy79]

So you are saying that it is natural (aka normal and to an extent 'expected') for a predator to raise what is to it a natural prey animal? And that it has nothing to do with environmental factors (which are not natural and are more due to random chance and circumstance).

JBT:

You are confusing the context. When I say Nature I am talking usually about the natural cycle of living things which is a self evident truth. The majority living things live, procreate and then die.

The context in which I use natural is in how it relates to the Nature's Law/Cycle.

Here is the definition of unnatural:

un⋅nat⋅u⋅ral

–adjective

1. contrary to the laws or course of nature.

Source: unnatural definition | Dictionary.com

Therefore given that the law or course of nature for all living things is simply to live, procreate and then die am I not correct in saying that homosexuality is unnatural?

If you want to "get through to me" then show me some evidence to the contrary. So far I have seen jack shit from any of you.

I have seen a lot of evidence which supports my point of view. The evidence compelled me to this point of view.

If you want to change my mind then show me some evidence and don't give me your disjointed and poorly expressed personal opinion.

I'm not confusing context at all. You, however, are. The natural cycle of MOST (though not all) organisms involves sexual procreation. That is the "natural cycle." Notice the qualifier to natural in that statement. Because an organism doesn't complete its natural cycle hardly means that the organism is unnatural, in fact, the vast majority of organisms never do complete the procreative phase of their cycle. Most organisms do, indeed, die before they reach sexual maturity.

And then there are those organisms, eg most yeasts, for whom procreation has never been observed. Most scientists believe they have lost the ability altogether. And yet, yeasts are hardly unnatural. To say that something that doesn't complete its natural cycle is unnatural would simply render the vast majority of things that live now or have ever lived unnatural. It would also render the definition of natural null and void, since most of nature never fulfills it's procreative "duty."

So... how exactly is homosexuality unnatural again?

 

[D_Tintagel_Demondong]

no, you used it because you were angry and frustrated.

you're funny like that.

You are fucking adorable.

 

[mitchymo]

ooo, theory #2!!

it's like sickle cell!
{bear with me}
like with bonobos, bisexual sex aids group cohesion.
like the sickle cell gene helps fight maleria.
but homosexuality is a double dose.
like sickle cell anemia.
so you get bisexuality with a carrier.
it is inevitable that some will carry two recessive genes.

...ok, that one was just silly.
but i can't wait to get the reaction.

:biggrin1: I'm waiting for a certain someone to now suggest homosexuals have a disease or disabilty.

 

[dolfette]

You are fucking adorable.

i know :biggrin1:

 

[dolfette]

:biggrin1: I'm waiting for a certain someone to now suggest homosexuals have a disease or disabilty.

it's been 43 minutes and nobody is biting :frown1:

 

[vibrator]

Everyone has a different "natural", what works for some may not work for others. Everyone should just try and enjoy what they like.

 

[mitchymo]

it's been 43 minutes and nobody is biting :frown1:

Damn it girl, you need to be more controversial then :biggrin1:

I theorise that members without avatars are inhuman beings therefore unnatural!

 

[dolfette]

Damn it girl, you need to be more controversial then :biggrin1:

I theorise that members without avatars are inhuman beings therefore unnatural!

and those with stolen pics because they're secretly fat truckers are natural.

 

[dolfette]

I blame dolfette for my bisexuality, I clearly sat too close to the bitch on the train

i gave you the viral gay!
i get a buzz when i give it to women.
but for some reason giving it to guys makes me feel unattractive...