some say gay=unnatural

[matticus201]

Here's what you won't be finding on Animal Planet.

If Vinyl signs off on it, the pleasure will be yours. :tongue:

I'm great with a camera!! I'm just sayin... :wink:

 

[D_Bob_Crotchitch]

We've had threads like this on here for ages. Why do people constantly start new threads about the same old thing?
Nick8, I'm off this weekend. Come over and I'll help your reproductive organs.

 

[matticus201]

thanks!
...try to define wild animals as unnatural, because that better fits your personal feelings on morality.

so funny.

I know right?! I do love hearing other people's feelings, even if I don't agree.

 

[798686]

the cool people of faith say ''well i believe in god and that it happened this way...''

faith helps a lot of people to be stronger and happier.
unfortunately it's also used as an enabler for arseholes.

I agree - it's certainly more honest to do that. You can't just assert it dogmatically because it's pretty much impossible to prove.

The fair-minded evolutionists handle it that way too: 'We think it happened like this'; because as yet we don't really know conclusively either way.

 

[GodDamnPenis]

:newbie:
First Post, since I normally just read innocently :wank: :biggrin1:
So, my contribution is that homosexuality is not unnatural, it's just rare.

 

[B_Nick8]

So, my contribution is that homosexuality is not unnatural, it's just rare.

Not so much.

 

[dolfette]

Not so much.

i hear your homosexuality isn't rare.
you prefer it well done.

 

[Wish-4-8]

Is this some record? 11 pages in less than 2 days? WOW!!!

 

[dolfette]

Is this some record? 11 pages in less than 2 days? WOW!!!

and without mentioning circ!

i

 

[B_Nick8]

i hear your homosexuality isn't rare.
you prefer it well done.

You got that right. And by an expert.

 

[433784]

As an openly gay man, I find that there are a lot of closeted males out there. The repression of these perfectly normal feelings seems to me to be the unnatural thing.

 

[Incocknito]

dolfette...where did I ever change my opinion on anything? Can you find a quote to that effect.

You really need to learn to read.

As for vinylboy saying that homosexuals can reproduce. If they are reproducing with females then are not entirely homosexual are they?

If we can't agree on the meanings of the words natural and unnatural and people can't help getting defensive over them then this is a worthless discussion.

A lot of you are losing sight of the actual meanings of words. I am not saying that ants that don't breed are some sort of unearthly or monstrous beings. Simply that insofar as reproduction goes, and knowing that reproduction is the goal of all living things, they are unnatural. Because nature wants and expects every living thing to breed and contribute to the continuation of the species.

In all other respects I am sure that the ants and other animals that don't breed are prefectly normal. I never said they weren't but some people have been trying to imply that I did.

If you choose not to believe that then it is up to you. Just don't misinterpret what I write or claim that I have said things that I haven't.

 

[mitchymo]

Is this some record? 11 pages in less than 2 days? WOW!!!

This thread probably would have been much shorter if Incognito didnt keep failing to miss the point.
He argues as if there is some huge disagreement with the idea that all life has a common goal...i.e to reproduce but fails to accept that as ever there are exceptions to the rules which has been spelt out to him by several posters.

AND....there is a good argument that life itself is un-natural considering it exists nowhere else but on Earth (at this moment in knowledge) so proves if anything that irregularity is special...homosexuality exists for a special reason therefore, simply because we (more so he) cannot explain it does not mean its out of sync with what is natural to humans.

 

[mitchymo]

Simply that insofar as reproduction goes, and knowing that reproduction is the goal of all living things,

THE POINT IS THIS:- you are saying ALL....clearly it is NOT all.....therefore they do not have the same goal and thus are not doing anything contrary to what is natural. (however un-natural you might percieve it)

 

[dolfette]

dolfette...where did I ever change my opinion on anything? Can you find a quote to that effect.

You really need to learn to read.

As for vinylboy saying that homosexuals can reproduce. If they are reproducing with females then are not entirely homosexual are they?

If we can't agree on the meanings of the words natural and unnatural and people can't help getting defensive over them then this is a worthless discussion.

A lot of you are losing sight of the actual meanings of words. I am not saying that ants that don't breed are some sort of unearthly or monstrous beings. Simply that insofar as reproduction goes, and knowing that reproduction is the goal of all living things, they are unnatural. Because nature wants and expects every living thing to breed and contribute to the continuation of the species.

In all other respects I am sure that the ants and other animals that don't breed are prefectly normal. I never said they weren't but some people have been trying to imply that I did.

If you choose not to believe that then it is up to you. Just don't misinterpret what I write or claim that I have said things that I haven't.

awwww! you're using sane font :frown1:
and attempting calm reasoning.
party pooper!

 

[dolfette]

THE POINT IS THIS:- you are saying ALL....clearly it is NOT all.....therefore they do not have the same goal and thus are not doing anything contrary to what is natural. (however un-natural you might percieve it)

and aiding the successful reproduction of your family is natural.
like ants and wolves.
it ensures some of your genes are passed on even if you do not breed yourself.

 

[Incocknito]

THE POINT IS THIS:- you are saying ALL....clearly it is NOT all.....therefore they do not have the same goal and thus are not doing anything contrary to what is natural. (however un-natural you might percieve it)

There is a difference between what is created by nature or instinct and what is a social construct aka environmental.

The very first evolutionary forms of every animal were not choosing not to breed.

If that were the case then nothing would have evolved would it? The fact that some animals don't breed today is a reaction to the environment and the social structure that they developed over time.

Exceptions aside, the rule of nature has been stated again and again and you are choosing to ignore it. That makes you ignorant.

And if you needed reassurance of your ignorance:

I already answered your question in my third post in this awful, awful thread.

http://www.lpsg.org/138901-some-say-gay-unnatural-2.html#post2194916

All (heterosexual) animals WANT to reproduce. In cases where an animal fails to reproduce, social roles take priority over their own instinct to procreate.

eg they are a submissive member of the pack or social group
eg they are a 'worker' and not a viable breeding partner

In fact, 90% of males in the animal kingdom die as virgins. They are nature's failures.

Yes it is cruel but it is also TRUE.

 

[433784]

There is a difference between what is created by nature or instinct and what is a social construct aka environmental.

The very first evolutionary forms of every animal were not choosing not to breed.

If that were the case then nothing would have evolved would it? The fact that some animals don't breed today is a reaction to the environment and the social structure that they developed over time.

Exceptions aside, the rule of nature has been stated again and again and you are choosing to ignore it. That makes you ignorant.

And if you needed reassurance of your ignorance:

I already answered your question in my third post in this awful, awful thread.

http://www.lpsg.org/138901-some-say-gay-unnatural-2.html#post2194916

All (heterosexual) animals WANT to reproduce. In cases where an animal fails to reproduce, social roles take priority over their own instinct to procreate.

eg they are a submissive member of the pack or social group
eg they are a 'worker' and not a viable breeding partner

In fact, 90% of males in the animal kingdom die as virgins. They are nature's failures.

Yes it is cruel but it is also TRUE.

Factors created by the environment aren't natural?

 

[Incocknito]

No. They are environmental. Here's some help for you:

define: environmental - Google Search

I am not necessarily talking about what is or isn't natural. I am talking about the "goal" or "design" of Nature which is at its most basic level to allow all living things to reproduce.

As a reaction to the enviornmental factor of foxes (predators), rabbits burrow holes underground in order to survive. This is a learned behaviour.

Environmental and natural are not the same thing. Just because it may be a "natural environment", not all of the interactions within it are natural, predetermined or instinctual.

Many behaviours are learned and not "natural".

This really is my last post in this thread.

 

[433784]

No. They are environmental. Here's some help for you:

define: environmental - Google Search

I am not necessarily talking about what is or isn't natural. I am talking about the "goal" or "design" of Nature which is at its most basic level to allow all living things to reproduce.

As a reaction to the enviornmental factor of foxes (predators), rabbits burrow holes underground in order to survive. This is a learned behaviour.

Environmental and natural are not the same thing. Just because it may be a "natural environment", not all of the interactions within it are natural, predetermined or instinctual.

Many behaviours are learned and not "natural".

This really is my last post in this thread.

Nature has a design?